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My General Conclusion For TT

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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 1:10pm
I'd be thrilled to see a poll of the average age of the members on this forum. That'd settle a lot of issues. Why some hate changes by the ITTF yet urge on others that a change is in order?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

I'd be thrilled to see a poll of the average age of the members on this forum. That'd settle a lot of issues. Why some hate changes by the ITTF yet urge on others that a change is in order?


I think you'll find out that younger players know how to make better use of their time than hanging around a bunch of old people talking about all the different type of rubber that they think they know so much about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 1:37pm
I don't know about the US, but in China, the young simply didn't give a dime about table tennis, with some who even detest it, well, until recently, thanks to Rio.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marcos78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 2:13pm
Well, I know it is pointless to engage an endless discussion, but time will tell the result, no matter how old are we. If the game is not suitable for TV or maybe it is more bored now than before, because the length of the rallies and the reduced strategies the players can choose, we will see. Where is poll ?LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 2:46pm
The notion that modern table tennis is not suitable for TV is defeated for the Rio Olympics. Ratings for the Men's and Women's team matches were some of the highest in Japan. Participation is at an all-time high.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

The notion that modern table tennis is not suitable for TV is defeated for the Rio Olympics. Ratings for the Men's and Women's team matches were some of the highest in Japan. Participation is at an all-time high.


And also some of the most exciting TT I have seen in a long time.  Just my opinion.   And ETTC matches were fantastic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by marcos78 marcos78 wrote:

Well, I know it is pointless to engage an endless discussion, but time will tell the result, no matter how old are we. If the game is not suitable for TV or maybe it is more bored now than before, because the length of the rallies and the reduced strategies the players can choose, we will see. Where is poll ?LOL


Suitability for TV will always take a back seat to other issues such as having a core enthusiast base of at least 500,000 players (U.S.A.)

Making the presentation more attractive for TV is certainly something that should be pursued.  Every bit helps.  But it isn't the main problem.  If people like the sport, they'll watch it on TV.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 3:58pm
Also, it is a question of taste as to whether making the sport slower will make it more watchable on TV. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geardaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 4:41pm
Well, I repeat myself (as I posted in this thread back in February 2016)....

It isn't about the rule changes, or the equipment, or whether the game is too fast, or that you can't see the ball when watching on TV.  It is pure and simple all about the way the sport is presented to the public.  The ITTF as a mere standards and rules governing body does not have the power and/or money to market the sport.  Their tweaks to rules in the game have had little effect.  In fact it is the event promoters that have the real power to advance the popularity of the sport.

The Rio Olympics TT was exciting.  Last year's ETTC was very entertaining.  The Chinese Super League is also quite good.  I can see what's going on just fine.  There are many exciting rallys and amazing shots.  But we see that because we understand the nuances of what's going on in a match.  We know who the players are, and where the rivalries exist.  We see the drama, and that's what the general public does not see.

As I said before, the general public couldn't tell the difference between the Rio Olympics competition and the World Ping-Pong Championships (where they played with sandpaper bats).  But, in many ways the World Ping-Pong championships was superior in its production and presentation.

TT popularity is all about the marketing of the sport.  Event promoters need to do a better job introducing the audience to the individual players, i.e. build heroes and villains and rivalries.  They also need to educate its audience to the game, and highlight the amazing feats of these amazing athletes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Also, it is a question of taste as to whether making the sport slower will make it more watchable on TV. 

I don't think it's a question of taste.  It may be a question of practicality.  Despite the  change to the 40+ mm. ball, table tennis at the professional level is still astoundingly fast and spinny, and if the global general public comes around to liking to watch this kind of table tennis on TV, TT may in time become a sister sport in popularity to its older brother tennis.  If the global public does not find that this type of table tennis is their cup of tea, it will remain a sport whose television coverage is largely limited to the Eastern Hemisphere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 6:25pm
When it comes to presentation, JTTA takes it home, hands down.

I sat through the entire live TV stream for the All-Japan Championships early this year. There were ZERO commercials. Not even a single one between matches. It was 3 hours of non-stop table tennis action, full with color commentary by former pros, one for the live TV and one for the radio feed for those at the venue. That showcased the respect, the determination, and the dedication towards your own profession and the sport you love.

Not even China could match that. They used to do it commercial-free, but now the station cuts to commercials between games.

Hong Kong, for one, has been among the worst I've seen in that regard for a traditionally strong region. The OTA station would cut off several points of each game. And with Jiang Jialiang sitting at the commentary box for every major event since Barcelona, who simply has been out of the loop for too long to add anything meaningful or educational to the match.

Edited by zeio - 11/03/2016 at 6:26pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by geardaddy geardaddy wrote:

Well, I repeat myself (as I posted in this thread back in February 2016)....

It isn't about the rule changes, or the equipment, or whether the game is too fast, or that you can't see the ball when watching on TV.  It is pure and simple all about the way the sport is presented to the public.  The ITTF as a mere standards and rules governing body does not have the power and/or money to market the sport.  Their tweaks to rules in the game have had little effect.  In fact it is the event promoters that have the real power to advance the popularity of the sport.

The Rio Olympics TT was exciting.  Last year's ETTC was very entertaining.  The Chinese Super League is also quite good.  I can see what's going on just fine.  There are many exciting rallys and amazing shots.  But we see that because we understand the nuances of what's going on in a match.  We know who the players are, and where the rivalries exist.  We see the drama, and that's what the general public does not see.

As I said before, the general public couldn't tell the difference between the Rio Olympics competition and the World Ping-Pong Championships (where they played with sandpaper bats).  But, in many ways the World Ping-Pong championships was superior in its production and presentation.

TT popularity is all about the marketing of the sport.  Event promoters need to do a better job introducing the audience to the individual players, i.e. build heroes and villains and rivalries.  They also need to educate its audience to the game, and highlight the amazing feats of these amazing athletes.


I agree 100%.

Another problem is that we (players, coaches, leaders) won't work together to make the sport better.  We seem to be a sport that is better at tearing down than building up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 11:13pm
The 29th National Large Ball Tournament in Japan:



Can you follow the ball? The spin element is definitely weak there. How much longer in general are the rallies? How excited are you watching this?

Edited by zeio - 11/03/2016 at 11:17pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2016 at 11:37pm
An interesting comparison below:

Same players, one with 40+, one with 44mm:

44mm


40+
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2016 at 3:28am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

An interesting comparison below:
Same players, one with 40+, one with 44mm:
Wow i find the game with the 44 ball much more exciting. Tongue
Viscaria 90gr.
TG2 Neo black max tuned
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2016 at 9:11am
Hey if longer rallies and slowing the game down is all that it takes to make the sport more popular then the answer to TT's publicity issue is simply encouraging more people to play as defenders LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garwor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2016 at 9:14am
The slower the ball the harder to finish point because opponent will have time to return the ball. This way more points will be decided by error than by winner. It will become like tt on old video games, move left and right and drive the ball back.
Why changing complex sport so the average non-sport oriented person decide to not change this channel on tv? If this is goal, put bunch of young woman to be ball catchers, or whatever, this will have more effect.
Same kind of points for whole match can only cause average Joe to become sleepy.

Why not change rules of chess to make this sport more tv-friendly?

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bh: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft max

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2016 at 11:07am
at a point people were watching poker and pool on TV in the US.  Our sport is much much better.  It needs better marketing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2016 at 8:05pm
Table tennis is a great sport, and it does not matter if it is played here or there. It introduces the young humans to sports, right there, in the basement of their house. A little later, they have a chance to go to the TT club, meet the coach and hone their skills, eventually compete for their team. They learn to win, and learn to lose. They continue to play in order to maintain relationships, and then they play TT in order to stay in shape, as long as they can. Table tennis is a positive, beneficial and relatively inexpensive human activity that should be encouraged and supported in its pure form.
(1) Stiga Cipper Wood (ST, 92 g) with RITC 802 (red, 2.0 mm) on FH and 0.5mm Curl P1R on BH (2) Juic SBA (Fl, 94 g) with Nimbus Soft (red 2.0 mm) on FH and 0.5mm Curl P1R on BH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2016 at 9:18pm
A good post, JacekGM. And you're right; table tennis can be played and enjoyed on your front or back lawn, in your basement or garage, at a firehouse, YMCA, YWCA, Boys' Club, Girls' Club or wherever you work, if a table is available.  Hell, you can even play on a tightrope (not recommended) or in a swimming pool (stay out of the deep end, unless you can swim well after an errant ball).

It is also fortunate, and today necessary, if you want to become proficient at the sport, to have a table tennis club near you, hopefully access to competent coaching, and practice partners who play at a higher level than you who are willing to practice with you.  And yes, table tennis, no matter what variety you play, will keep you in decent shape and it's not gonna hurt you cognitively.  You will most likely make a number of friends playing TT at a club, unless you happen to be a complete jerk, in which case social play at a TT club is probably not for you.  While many TT players are highly intelligent, offbeat, and opinionated, especially when TT is discussed, I can count on one hand the number I've met in my 45 year career of playing who were complete jerks, and only two on the TT forums to which I've posted (none on this forum). 

I just have one question, however.  What would you consider to be table tennis in its, as you write, "pure form"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2016 at 9:51pm
Not TTX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2016 at 10:02pm
Berndt, 
Yes, basically I do not support the deviated forms, like the TTX, or a very big ball, or very high nets, or the likes...
I do not differentiate between hardbat and other generally accepted surfaces, although I do think that from today's perspective hardbat has been more of a developmental stage of the game than a pure form of it.
(1) Stiga Cipper Wood (ST, 92 g) with RITC 802 (red, 2.0 mm) on FH and 0.5mm Curl P1R on BH (2) Juic SBA (Fl, 94 g) with Nimbus Soft (red 2.0 mm) on FH and 0.5mm Curl P1R on BH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2016 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Vlad0 Vlad0 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

An interesting comparison below:
Same players, one with 40+, one with 44mm:

Wow i find the game with the 44 ball much more exciting. Tongue

Truth be told, I like it better than hardbat or sandpaper.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2016 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Not TTX.

Right-0.  I went to the TTX website today.  No information about upcoming tournaments; no information about where to buy TTX bats or balls, no new information about nothing.  Limbo city.

Rest in peace, TTX.  Not only did we hardly know you; you never seemed to be interested in persuading us to get to know you at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2016 at 9:22am
And thank the pong gods for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2016 at 9:53am
Originally posted by garwor garwor wrote:


Why not change rules of chess to make this sport more tv-friendly?


chess is not sport ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Vlad0 Vlad0 wrote:

I wonder is there some other sport with such many big changes in the rules?


VOLLEYBAL did adopted a great number of rule amendments in the past 20 years.
All of those were made in hope to enhance spectacularity of the game through making a rally longer.
Introducing the "four touch" rule is expected to be the next rule amendment in volleybal, according to many expert's opinions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 1:25pm

[Didn't realize I was responding to a half-year-old post.  Sorry 'bout that.  Deleting my comment.]


Edited by wturber - 04/18/2017 at 2:08pm
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