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DHS D40+ to Be Released in April

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2017 at 2:23pm
I have dented one on the side of my racket and lost a couple in my club doing multiball practice. No cracks yet.
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2017 at 2:48pm
I have broken two so far. One died of natural causes (old age, ~15 matches and hard hitting). The other one was murdered. It broke when I got angry during a match due to a stupid shot and crushed it in my hand. 

Someone (a full grown man) stepped on one of mine while trying to pick it up. It didn't break, it just dented and sprung back into shape. You could see where he stepped on it, but it was almost unnoticeable during play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2017 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by tt-panopticum tt-panopticum wrote:

Some data point for the DHS D40+ I received today - didn't play them yet, but I'm able to add some weights - btw, date code is march 2017, measured one complete box of 10:
....

would you mind check the balls weight too? We ran into 2 heavy & thick D40+ balls LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2017 at 9:08am
DHS D40+ is told to feel somewhat volatile, feels intangible, is it really low-weigh balls? What mass by grammes?

Thanks.

Just found mass measurements made by a Germany forumer.. this given thread earlier.

DHS proved to be 2.75 gr on average. Standard weight deviation from a ball to ball within a package no more than 0.03gr.
Nittaku Premium 2.68 gr on average. It hovers haphazardly. Near unplayable, should feels intangible and uncontrolable. Some crappy thing...

Edited by igorponger - 05/06/2017 at 9:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2017 at 9:40am
I don't know what measurements of Nittaku you are talking about, but I trust my measurements since they were done using a well calibrated laboratory balance free from air flow and with an accuracy of +/- 2 mg.  I measured 24 balls, and the Nittaku ball is very consistent in terms of its weight and has SD far better than what ITTF requires.  The average is between 2.68-2.69 grams (often what we had with celluloid).   It is not in the least unplayable and it is as controllable as anything else out there.  It is a little lighter than other 40+ so if you are used to 2.78 gram cellulose acetate balls that don't bounce  very high maybe it will fly on you for a little while until you get used to it.  The only really bad thing about that ball is its price.  The D40+ also has good consistency in weight (as was reported here on the previous page of this thread!!; is very round, bounces the same height as celluloid (and Nittaku), and lasts forever. It is also cheaper. 

One other thing about Nittaku and D40+, they are both really dusty when you first use them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 1:50am
Thoroughly informative video of how DHS balls including D40+ are made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_oBgkMCSS8

Pingsider | How Table Tennis Balls are Made


Each ball subjected to 5 different tests ....

E


Edited by pdotec - 05/17/2017 at 1:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by pdotec pdotec wrote:

Thoroughly informative video of how DHS balls including D40+ are made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_oBgkMCSS8

Pingsider | How Table Tennis Balls are Made


Each ball subjected to 5 different tests ....

E
Well, more propaganda than information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2017 at 10:13am
Video features both 40+ and D40+ balls.  Begs the question, is the 40+ ball obsolete, are they
still being made?  Are dealers trying to dump the old 40+ balls.  Is any dealer in the US even carrying
the new ball.
Interest info from video - DHS can pump out 600,000 balls a day.


Edited by pdotec - 05/18/2017 at 10:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2017 at 11:32am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2017 at 11:46am
When d40+ first appeared, I asked Paddle Palace when they will have them and was told it will be in "several months", so I ordered from China. I suspect DHS will want to give the distribution channel time to clear the 40+ inventory out before wide release of the new ball. Considering the price and quality of the new ball versus old, I don't see why they would keep producing the old ball after using up all the raw material inventory.

In regards to the video, one thing they don't show is what kind of durability testing is done on balls. I would expect some kind of accelerated life cycle testing to be done in prototyping and on random production samples.

In my experience with d40+, it is a very consistent and durable ball. After playing with one ball for about 10 sessions, it developed a small crack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2017 at 9:06pm
While I was in China, I exclusively used this ball. When I came back to Japan, I had trouble playing with the NP40+. I couldn't return any of the balls. Everything felt off. Enough to get me frustrated. 

I've swapped between the regular 40+, NP40+, seamed, and seamless balls and never had trouble adapting to the ball. Now after playing a few sessions with the NP40+ again (since Japan exclusively uses that ball everywhere I go), I'm used to it.

Never have I ever experienced such a difference in balls. 

That said, I really like the D40+. It plays well. But until others start playing with it here, I'll just have to be patient.

But for me, the best features of the D40+ are its price and durability. The three star balls I bought in China were less than 35 cents each.


Edited by mickd - 05/18/2017 at 9:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 2:55am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

While I was in China, I exclusively used this ball. When I came back to Japan, I had trouble playing with the NP40+. I couldn't return any of the balls. Everything felt off. Enough to get me frustrated. 

I've swapped between the regular 40+, NP40+, seamed, and seamless balls and never had trouble adapting to the ball. Now after playing a few sessions with the NP40+ again (since Japan exclusively uses that ball everywhere I go), I'm used to it.

Never have I ever experienced such a difference in balls. 

That said, I really like the D40+. It plays well. But until others start playing with it here, I'll just have to be patient.

But for me, the best features of the D40+ are its price and durability. The three star balls I bought in China were less than 35 cents each.

You are the only player I've run across who sees the playing characteristics this way.  Most players see dramatic differences between DHS 40+, NP40+ and Seamless balls and find that the D40+ and NP40+ play very similarly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 5:13am
One thing that surprises me are all the reports of its durability.

One would think the manufacturers would have a handshake agreement to keep the durability at the 'meh' level. Less ball breakages will contract the entire TT ball market. Much like if they made a Tenergy 05 that lasted 50 years. They could sell it for $500 and still would lose revenue in the long run.

Kudos to them. I guess it only takes one manufacturer making more durable balls to make them all fall in line, prisoners dilemma and all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 5:38am
Well, durability had to go up. At my club we broke ~10 balls++ pr. training session (when we did inventory over 2000 balls last year) the cost meant that we used about $1500 on balls last year (so chaper and more durable balls will mean that we will use less money on balls.) That said, we still estimate about a thousand balls a year, so it's not like we stop using balls. It's just that we brake less of them 😜
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chewy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 5:46am



Tried playing with the new DHS 3 star balls. 
Impressed and very happy with the quality, durability is good.
Plays very similar to the Nittaku NP40+, price is also cheaper. Would choose the DHS if I had to pick! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

One thing that surprises me are all the reports of its durability.

One would think the manufacturers would have a handshake agreement to keep the durability at the 'meh' level. Less ball breakages will contract the entire TT ball market. Much like if they made a Tenergy 05 that lasted 50 years. They could sell it for $500 and still would lose revenue in the long run.

Kudos to them. I guess it only takes one manufacturer making more durable balls to make them all fall in line, prisoners dilemma and all.<span ="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">     </span>


That's until your bottom line plummets. DHS's share in the 40+ market has been dwindling as the XSF seamless ball eats into their margins over the last couple of years.
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= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 12:29pm
D40+ is a total rubbish. It's better to quit ping pong instead of playing with this crap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:


D40+ is a total rubbish. It's better to quit ping pong instead of playing with this crap.


Why is it that I read this about the DHS D40+ ball only from mainly you ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

You are the only player I've run across who sees the playing characteristics this way.  Most players see dramatic differences between DHS 40+, NP40+ and Seamless balls and find that the D40+ and NP40+ play very similarly.
Ya, after played / trained with D40+ exclusively for 3 weeks, I needed 3 games to adapt the seamless XFS ball Dead

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

One thing that surprises me are all the reports of its durability.

One would think the manufacturers would have a handshake agreement to keep the durability at the 'meh' level. Less ball breakages will contract the entire TT ball market. Much like if they made a Tenergy 05 that lasted 50 years. They could sell it for $500 and still would lose revenue in the long run.

Kudos to them. I guess it only takes one manufacturer making more durable balls to make them all fall in line, prisoners dilemma and all.


I think there is a point where if you aren't durable enough you lose market share.  Also, keep in mind that you have the legacy durability of the celluloid ball and the general experience that most balls will at least last for a match or two. 

Also, balls wear out and become less desirable to play with for many players before they break.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 2:33pm
Durability to that level may not even be something that they set out to do, it may simply be intrinsic to the ABS material they chose to use.  In other words, maybe they got lucky (from our point of view).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Roger Stillabower Roger Stillabower wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:


D40+ is a total rubbish. It's better to quit ping pong instead of playing with this crap.


Why is it that I read this about the DHS D40+ ball only from mainly you ?


I dont like it either. I'd rather prefer XS since it's spinner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Durability to that level may not even be something that they set out to do, it may simply be intrinsic to the ABS material they chose to use.  In other words, maybe they got lucky (from our point of view).

Yep, but I'm sure they do a decent amount of testing before launching the product, whether they got lucky or not is not that pertinant IMO - they'd know the durability was higher through whatever tests they do for that metric. The fact they chose to launch it probably speaks to what the other posters are saying [Dwindling market share] - they had to improve the offering or accept their new position in the market.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Originally posted by Roger Stillabower Roger Stillabower wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:


D40+ is a total rubbish. It's better to quit ping pong instead of playing with this crap.


Why is it that I read this about the DHS D40+ ball only from mainly you ?


I dont like it either. I'd rather prefer XS since it's spinner.
Our club provides balls to play with, but I keep my own personal bag of drill balls because they club balls get more worn and include a lot of balls I won't play with (including celluloid).  I recently filtered out all the first generation plastic balls out of my personal bag, so now I'm down to XSF seamless 3 star, DHS D40+ 3 star, NP three star (only a few), Nittaku Top, Butterfly G40+ (only a few) balls.  A few observations:

1) For match play, a lot of our players prefer the balls in this order: NP, NTop, DHS D, XSF.  No one wants to play with the Bty G40+.  There are a few of our players who don't really care which ball.  Personally, I don't care as much about brand with these new balls are just have new, versus old, balls.

2) I know a couple of 2600+ players who claim the seamless balls (XSF) spin less, not more.  My observation is that no plastic balls spins anywhere near as well as the celluloid balls.

3) On the other hand, I do notice a difference in bounce of the different brands.

4) Even when plastic balls don't break (all of these second generation balls), they lose their grip (get shiny) pretty quick.  That could happen with celluloid too, but it's much faster with plastic.  It happens even with balls I only use for service practice.

5) The colors vary quite a bit. And some brands fade more in color.  XSF balls start out a little more grey than the others and end up a lot more grey.  Some balls seems to develop a yellowish tint.  Or maybe that's just my vision problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 9:33pm
I played some more with this ball and all of my initial impressions remain unchanged. Quality seems really good because the round balls are very round and hard and durable. Very durable. 
But I got several eggs already in my package. Maybe 1 in 5 is an egg, though some of the eggs are playable. But because they are so cheap and perfect balls are so easy to find, i dont use eggs at all.

About the spin now.
This ball loses spin faster than NP, G40, or XSF! 

It is not that close as to be difficult to detect. I am confused how can there be even an argument. It is rougher! How could it physically avoid losing spin at faster rate? Can anybody think of explanation that makes sense? No.
When it touches the table it hits the brakes. Once. Then again.
When it travels through air it decelerates faster and dissipates spin faster. If both players are away from the table it feels notably more difficult to penetrate opp defense. 

This doesn't personally bother me because I am more athletic that almost everyone I play and I like long rallies. So yeah, im gona use that ball. But I have to agree with everyone who says spin is less. Most people can't word their perceptions well, but they can still feel it just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:



 I know a couple of 2600+ players who claim the seamless balls (XSF) spin less, not more.  My observation is that no plastic balls spins anywhere near as well as the celluloid balls.

...

Even when plastic balls don't break (all of these second generation balls), they lose their grip (get shiny) pretty quick.  That could happen with celluloid too, but it's much faster with plastic.  It happens even with balls I only use for service practice.



I completely agree that XSF "spin" less (by which I mean that my I have to expend more effort to get an equally effective shot that is based mostly on topspin with those than I do with an NP or a D40+). Those are the only three kinds of balls I will play with now.

I think the surface of the D40+ holds up a long time, better than celluloid ever did and better than the other plastic balls.

When people talk about "spins more" or "spins less" they are often not talking about the same thing.  Some people are talking about the arc in the air.  Some people are talking about the spin remaining on the ball after it bounces. 

One thing for sure they are not talking about (because nobody is really able to measure it) is revs/sec or angular momentum.  And that may be why people are not in complete agreement on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 10:37pm
The spinniest ball I play with is the one being looped by my opponent.

The least spinny ball I play with is the one I am looping.

The fastest ball I play with is the one being blocked back after I loop.

The least durable ball I play with is the brand new one I just took out of the box .

The question driving me crazy is how do they train those balls to come out of nowhere and roll right under my foot just before it hits the ground.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Some people are talking about the spin remaining on the ball after it bounces. 

One thing for sure they are not talking about (because nobody is really able to measure it) is revs/sec or angular momentum.  And that may be why people are not in complete agreement on this.
That's a good point about spin after bounces.  This will vary depending upon how the ball grips the table and how much it deforms when hitting the table.

I was under the impression that people had measured revs/sec in the past, so I'm surprised no one has done that now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2017 at 6:27am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:


That's a good point about spin after bounces. Β This will vary depending upon how the ball grips the table and how much it deforms when hitting the table.

I was under the impression that people had measured revs/sec in the past, so I'm surprised no one has done that now.


Baal's point is that most of the people talking most confidently about how spinny the plastic ball is have never done the precise measurements to speak about angular velocity.   So they are basically discussing spin effect in some way or another. He doesn't mean that no one has ever tried to measure the angular velocity of a ball with great accuracy and precision.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2017 at 9:33am
Yes. Nobody posting here is able to measure it.
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