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DHS D40+ to Be Released in April

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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:16pm
So summarizing the possibilities.

1.  The thin seamed ones are fakes.
2.  The thin seamed ones are a new product that may be worse than the one they were making earlier.
3.  There are two factories making non-identical D40+ balls.

We will reject #1 if people start getting thin-seamed ones from authorized dealers like TT11, as opposed to ttnpp.  We accept #2 if nobody sees a thick seam on any balls from authorized dealers with manufacturing dates after, say, June of 2017.  If a consensus emerges that the thin seamed ones really are worse we can begin to accept the second part of #2.  Finally if we see both thin and thick seam versions from authorized dealers that have manufacturing dates of June 2017 or later we would probably reject #2 and accept #3.

So I suppose we will know before too long.  Someone will let me know if there are possibilities I haven't included. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:20pm
XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:32pm
XGAG and thick seamed??? What the...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


Same date code as my boxes of thin seam balls. (bought from ttnpp)

Edited by qpskfec - 09/27/2017 at 1:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:35pm
DHS you suck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:41pm
we now have something worth investigating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


OK, this is July 2017.  Thick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


Same date code as my boxes of thin seam balls. (bought from ttnpp)


OK.  Now we have two kinds of balls, same stamped date (July this year), bought different at places (thin ones from ttnpp, thick ones from a shop in Beijing).  Still, we have not quite resolved things yet because the date they changed the balls could have been in the middle of July?

It could also still be that the tnpp ones are fake or two factories. 

But again, we will eventually know the truth if people keep posting what they get to this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 3:03pm
Friends,

I know all the truth. It is pretty easy to know if you aware a little of the whole production process. Just look through the promo video of the DHS BALL FACTORY , 2016.

So now, the truth is that DHS would put the older balls (with the bulge seam) into the same boxes as the newer balls and marked the boxes with a fresh data codes. Just to clear up the older factory stocks.

As soon as the older factory stocks have got all empty, you will see the thick-seamed species on market never again.
-------------
However, I dare to think that we SHALL see many more improvemenrs to the DHS products in the future days.

Be happy, don't worry ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 4:48pm
Personally I don't claim to know the truth.  I would also be skeptical of people who claim to know it (especially when they have a history of being all over the map when it comes to balls). 

But it seems quite unlikely that DHS would simply give their old 40+ balls D40+ labels just to clear out their old stock!  That is a really bad business model that I can't imagine any official in the company agreeing to, even a company in China.    However, someone unscrupulous might make fake balls that way (boxes and ball labels being especially easy to fake) and somehow those fakes found their way to ttnpp. 

I don't know that this happened, but it seems much more likely to me.

In any case, the thin seamed ones have not yet made their way to my town.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 7:03pm

An interesting Question, how much of the USA or even World Wide Sales of thick seamed DHS D40+ balls by TTNPP has affected the sales of Nittaku Premium 40+ balls ?

Depending on that answer, maybe anything is possible with the introduction of the thin seemed DHS D40+ balls.
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 7:14pm
Nittaku relies primarily on sales in Japan. So the D40+ has probably had almost no effect on them.

Hard to say in US
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Nittaku relies primarily on sales in Japan. So the D40+ has probably had almost no effect on them.

Hard to say in US


Since most of the USA sanctioned tournaments use Nittaku Premium 40+, that ball sales in the USA has to be a lot.

For example, clubs in my area require use of Nittaku Premium house balls unless a different ball is agreed on by both players.

.....

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 09/27/2017 at 7:25pm
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 7:52pm

Deleted duplicate posting

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 09/27/2017 at 8:15pm
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Nittaku relies primarily on sales in Japan. So the D40+ has probably had almost no effect on them.

Hard to say in US


Since most of the USA sanctioned tournaments use Nittaku Premium 40+, that ball sales in the USA has to be a lot.

For example, clubs in my area require use of Nittaku Premium house balls unless a different ball is agreed on by both players.

.....

Check out this thread by yours truly. Export to the US is even lower than the export to Taiwan. The US market is roughly comparable to that of Singapore.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Nittaku relies primarily on sales in Japan. So the D40+ has probably had almost no effect on them.

Hard to say in US


Since most of the USA sanctioned tournaments use Nittaku Premium 40+, that ball sales in the USA has to be a lot.

For example, clubs in my area require use of Nittaku Premium house balls unless a different ball is agreed on by both players.

.....

Check out this thread by yours truly. Export to the US is even lower than the export to Taiwan. The US market is roughly comparable to that of Singapore.


How much affect has the DHS 40+ thick seamed ball had on the sales of other brands of balls in the USA and Worldwide ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 8:27pm

COVER YOURSELF ON PURCHASES

One way to cover yourself when buying a DHS D40+ ball from TTNPP, pay with PayPal, with your order send a message that you only want the DHS thick seamed D40+ ball. You will seek a refund of any DHS thin seamed D40+ balls received.

ALSO, state you will expect them to pay all return shipping expenses of any thin seemed D40+ balls received.

....

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 09/27/2017 at 8:38pm
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 8:49pm
It's still early to tell. Maybe next year when the numbers come in, which may not get published.

One thing certain is that people around the world wouldn't mind seeing the 40+ wiped off the surface of the earth. Many D40+ reviews on the net, East and West, are mostly favorable. Despite that, it is going to take some time for many others to replace their old balls, which may or may not switch due to brand loyalty and tournament ball choice.

People in Japan, when given the choice, would opt for domestic over foreign brands. It is no different for ball. One proof is that DHS/DFish 38mm balls were cheaper and more durable than their counterpart by Nittaku, and the latter is still thriving after all these years. Nittaku and DHS have had a longstanding business partnership, so that is the least part I worry about.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


COVER YOURSELF ON PURCHASES

One way to cover yourself when buying a DHS D40+ ball from TTNPP, pay with PayPal, with your order send a message that you only want the DHS thick seamed D40+ ball. You will seek a refund of any DHS thin seamed D40+ balls received.

ALSO, state you will expect them to pay all return shipping expenses of any thin seemed D40+ balls received.

....

Perhaps this is why we get those posts where users complain ttnpp doesn't ship and doesn't respond to their inquiries.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


An interesting Question, how much of the USA or even World Wide Sales of thick seamed DHS D40+ balls by TTNPP has affected the sales of Nittaku Premium 40+ balls ?

Depending on that answer, maybe anything is possible with the introduction of the thin seemed DHS D40+ balls.
Another interesting question, Is the new NITTAKU NSD 40+ ball thick or thin seemed DHS D40+ ballEmbarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2017 at 12:08am
After much delay, Nittaku started selling the DHS D40+ in Japan on June 21, 2017.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 12:43pm
So I thought you guys were crazy at first with this thin seam and thick seam business...but you are right. These balls have to be entirely different.

I bought a ton of balls from TTNP on the suggestion of Baal (he has excellent recommendations on equipment and thanks). I purchased one batch in late April and another larger batch in early May. I still have 8 unopened boxes of balls still, sadly(or not) they were all marked XDAG, which is April 2017 and all of them were thick seamed (second purchase batch). However I did end up with some balls which did have the thin seam. I would have not known unless someone had told me!

So these thin seamed ones were being shipped as early as May 5th. Very curious.

The color is different, the seam is different.

You may be able to tell the color from this picture. It is very obvious once you put a light through them. The thick seamed balls are on the left.






Edited by wilkinru - 09/30/2017 at 12:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 2:27pm
I can confirm too that both kinds of balls exist, a practice partner had some thin seamed ones.  I don't know where he got them but I think ttnpp because at a point he had asked me where I got mine.  I didn't think they were incredibly terrible but sound is definitely different and I don't like them as much.  I also agree that they are whiter in color.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 2:30pm
CHANGING THE SEAM IS NO CRIME...

It appears from this Torsten Kuneth's explanations that DHS did made some unspoke changes to their product on their own, without giving any notification to ITTF.
Still, I have got no good evidence from this forum that the change in the ball's seam has any adverse effect on the ball's actual performance..
Changing solely the size of the seam is rather a trivial change as long as the ball keeps up all the T4 technical standards.      

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=343448#p343448
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 2:36pm
I don't think that they merely changed the seam though.  The color is different too, so I suspect they changed the material also, and that should require re-approval by ITTF.  I think these thin seamed ones would pass.  I prefer the earlier ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 3:11pm
All comes back to one thing, just do not trust anything made in china
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 5:39pm
The thin seam balls bounce identical to the thick seamed ones. I'm not sure how to go about testing them further. I haven't busted any of these balls, tho I've only used them in my robot. I will defer to Baal on the feel and all of that. I don't think I'm good enough to tell the difference on these balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 6:15am
I tested the D40+ ball about 6 months ago, didn't like it that much, felt considerably less spinny compared to the DHS 40+ that we've been using.

A few days ago I tested another box (Pack/10 code XEAG), and this has a thin seam (I don't know if the earlier one I tried had the thin seam), but I really like this ball.. it did not have the sound of the seamless, and spin was quite good!

So to me, if they have made a change to the ball, I think it's an improvement!

I also got a box of Double Fish V40+, wow those balls have a rough surface!!! I'd suggest you wash them first too, or they leave a ton of dust on your rubbers.
I did like these balls as much, there seems to be less spin, or perhaps it just arcs further on, I need to test a bit more.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

I tested the D40+ ball about 6 months ago, didn't like it that much, felt considerably less spinny compared to the DHS 40+ that we've been using.

A few days ago I tested another box (Pack/10 code XEAG), and this has a thin seam (I don't know if the earlier one I tried had the thin seam), but I really like this ball.. it did not have the sound of the seamless, and spin was quite good!

So to me, if they have made a change to the ball, I think it's an improvement!



If you have a scale, can you measure the weight of the D40+ thick and thin seam balls?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommy16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 2:08pm
I got 6 boxes XHAG from ttnp. Thick seam and bright white colour. Feeling is quite light and 2 out of 10 were a little wobbly.

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


Same date code as my boxes of thin seam balls. (bought from ttnpp)


OK.  Now we have two kinds of balls, same stamped date (July this year), bought different at places (thin ones from ttnpp, thick ones from a shop in Beijing).  Still, we have not quite resolved things yet because the date they changed the balls could have been in the middle of July?

It could also still be that the tnpp ones are fake or two factories. 

But again, we will eventually know the truth if people keep posting what they get to this thread.
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My feedback: http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67171&KW=&PID=811763&title=tommy16-feedback#811763
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