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DHS D40+ to Be Released in April

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 12:21am
Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

Those D40+ 1 star balls are dirt cheap from taobao yet the quality is pretty high for the price. Cost only 18 RMB (about $2.60) for a box of 10. I am surprised to see that they have it priced much lower than the normal DHS 1 star. I hope that is still true when they give us 3 star D40+. 
==================
Has anybody bought things from taobao ?
If you have, please let us know your experience.     
 

I bought from taobao through buying agents a lot and they are quite reliable and fast. Basically you tell them what you want and pay the cost by paypal. They will buy and collect for you. You can build up all you want and when you feel it is enough, you can tell them to pack and they will tell you the total weight and shipping cost. They will use fast shipping with tracking (eg. EMS) so cost could be quite high. Bear in mind that not all agents are equal. Some charge a lot for handling and shipping cost varies too so it is best to check before you start. Otherwise you will be surprised by the final cost when everything build up. 

I think these days you can buy direct from taobao and ship oversea but I am comfortable buying through agents so I have kept doing it the old way.  
Ya, you can buy items directly from taobao now and save at least 40%. You just did the buying agent job. However, it is not like a walk in the park. Anyway, if you buy few boxes from taobao, you may get some "subpar quality" balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 12:30am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

KINGNIK OVERTAKES NITTAKU IN QUALITY.

tennis_ball_ABS_material_.html


   Do not pass by those new product by Minkow manufacturer.
Kingnik newest ball made of ABS plastic, just the same material as now used by Nittaku Premium 40+
balls. The price reduced as much as
three times as against to the Japan-
made product.
Best price on the market. This Kingnik product is now made by using ABS plastic material, exactly identical to the Nittaku Premium balls.   This KINGNIK seemingly emulates Nittaku playing performance, I believe so.



I don't consider Nittaku's advantage to be in their material.  I think their advantage is that the two halves can be formed with very uniform wall thicknesses because molds can be used on the inside and outside of the ball.  When combined with their very uniform sonic welded seam that is almost the same thickness, you end up with a ball that is consistently well balanced with a bounce on the seam that isn't much difference than non-seam bounces.  It also seems that Nittaku is able to make the ball slightly smaller - possibly due to a more precise molding process.

IMO, the material is the least attractive part of the Nittaku ball.   I'd rather see Nittaku make a ball using their seam technology but with the same material used in the seamless balls.  That said, I can imagine how an inexpensive ball that bounces similarly to the Nittaku could be a market success.  But I'm betting that it won't be as uniform as the Nittaku or as small if it is seamless.


Edited by wturber - 11/27/2016 at 12:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 5:01am
I think ittf with its new president and board should ban any other balls then nittaku 40+ premium and butterfly g40+ and maybe this D40+. All other balls have lower bounce and wooby!!!
about the price i think we pay much more for xushaofa and its variation for a dozen to end up playing only with 3 good balls that last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 11:05am
Friends

To be all honest, you talk so much about nothing, you fuss so much about this D40+ without good reason. The ball still unavailable, and nobody know if the ball really offer any virtue.

LETS BE MORE REALISTIC in making your choice.
Kingnik Premium 40+ is a superior ball, all durable and round, right now available from many vendors at most agreeable price. The ball to please most of club players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 11:19am
Funny Igor, even though the ITTF approved D40+ ball is still not available, and nobody has played with one, and it is not listed on the Minkow site, you CLAIMED it was better than a Nittaku Premium.  In other words you made up a review about a ball that doesn't exist (and the 1* and 2* balls do not meet ITTF standards yet which is why they are not 3*).  Not great for credibility.  Also your previous claim that DHS 40+ balls made after July 2015 would be the best ever, not true either.  I bought a few boxes based solely on the things your wrote.  They are still fragile, still low bounce, still many not round, which even DHS knows or they would not be pursuing the new ball material.  I think they had better durability but were still bad, especially for the price.

As for the Kingnik, I have not played with it, but I would certainly expect that it is fine because I have played with many different types of 3* seamless and they are all perfectly ok.  They do please most club players, and if seamless was the official ITTF standard, there would be relatively little complaining.

The problem is that DHS supplies the 40+ balls for many other labels, and they are used in leagues and tournaments were members don't have a choice.  So, once DHS is able to get their D40+ balls in production, assuming they play more like Nittaku Premium, there will be more uniformity.  That would be good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

I think ittf with its new president and board should ban any other balls then nittaku 40+ premium and butterfly g40+ and maybe this D40+. All other balls have lower bounce and wooby!!!
about the price i think we pay much more for xushaofa and its variation for a dozen to end up playing only with 3 good balls that last.


You are about the only person I have seen here who would say that about XSF and other seamless balls.  They demonstrably have the highest bounce of any balls, they actually bounce higher than celluloids.  Not everybody will like them, but not because of low bounce! And some brands of seamless are perfectly round, for example Xiom and Yinhe. 

I like the Nittaku Premium best also, they are clearly closest to celluloid.  We have not seen the D40+ yet.  I personally am not a big fan of the G40.  Very slick surface of the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 11:28am
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:



I don't consider Nittaku's advantage to be in their material.  I think their advantage is that the two halves can be formed with very uniform wall thicknesses because molds can be used on the inside and outside of the ball.  When combined with their very uniform sonic welded seam that is almost the same thickness, you end up with a ball that is consistently well balanced with a bounce on the seam that isn't much difference than non-seam bounces.  It also seems that Nittaku is able to make the ball slightly smaller - possibly due to a more precise molding process.

IMO, the material is the least attractive part of the Nittaku ball.   I'd rather see Nittaku make a ball using their seam technology but with the same material used in the seamless balls.  That said, I can imagine how an inexpensive ball that bounces similarly to the Nittaku could be a market success.  But I'm betting that it won't be as uniform as the Nittaku or as small if it is seamless.


Interesting view point.  What is it about the material you don't like?  I am guessing the material is what gives the Nittaku the bounce we like, and the other technology gives it its roundness.  Am I wrong about that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:



Interesting view point.  What is it about the material you don't like?  I am guessing the material is what gives the Nittaku the bounce we like, and the other technology gives it its roundness.  Am I wrong about that?

Well, I don't really like the bounce that much.  On the one hand it mimics celluloid in its static bounce height which seems like a good thing.  OTOH, it feels quite different on a hardbat.  So I'm not convinced that its "dynamic" bounce necessarily mimics celluloid.  This is seems insignificant to the majority of players who use sponge coverings.  But it seems that most OX players notice the difference.  I've also had a few sponge players complain that the Nittaku ball sometimes slips on their rubber surface.  And finally, I break the NP40+ ball much more frequently than I do the seamless balls.  That may be material or it may be an artifact of the seam and construction.

So net-net, I don't see the material as the ball's strong point, though it is certainly an OK material.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


As for the Kingnik, I have not played with it, but I would certainly expect that it is fine because I have played with many different types of 3* seamless and they are all perfectly ok.  They do please most club players, and if seamless was the official ITTF standard, there would be relatively little complaining.


In the Phoenix area, the seamless ball is clearly the favorite.  I've been using the NP40+ in tournaments all or most of 2016, and the average player has not switched.  It seems like only a few players in the 1800+ range care to go the the trouble to buy and used the NP40+ ball.  And I think they do that mostly so they can prepare for local tournaments.  I think I may have to run a survey and see if players care which balls we use for tournaments.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 2:55pm
Perhaps this is the person who knows pretty well of the D40+ actual performance, able to answer your most questions.

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=327416#p327416
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

I think ittf with its new president and board should ban any other balls then nittaku 40+ premium and butterfly g40+ and maybe this D40+. All other balls have lower bounce and wooby!!!
about the price i think we pay much more for xushaofa and its variation for a dozen to end up playing only with 3 good balls that last.

The XSF and other seamless balls have a higher bounce, not lower.  I do agree that they tend to have more balance issues than the Nittaku Premium 40+ though.  Can't say much for the G40+ because I've never played with one.  But given that the ITTF actually used DHS 40+ seamed ball in the Olympics, it would be the height of hypocrisy if they were to ban the far better seamless balls.  OTOH, doing so would seem to fit their pattern of behavior.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 3:42pm
IS DHS BALL MONOPOLY GETTING NEAR END?

Agreement of cooperation that ITTF made with DHS scheduled for 2012 2016.. By which, ITTF had undertook longterm obligation to only use DHS balls for major events.
It has expired by now, immediately from after Rio Olympics.

So, can we expect some seamless ball to be now adopted for major ITTF events, eg. Kingnik or Tibhar seamless?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

I think ittf with its new president and board should ban any other balls then nittaku 40+ premium and butterfly g40+ and maybe this D40+. All other balls have lower bounce and wooby!!!
about the price i think we pay much more for xushaofa and its variation for a dozen to end up playing only with 3 good balls that last.


You are about the only person I have seen here who would say that about XSF and other seamless balls.  They demonstrably have the highest bounce of any balls, they actually bounce higher than celluloids.  Not everybody will like them, but not because of low bounce! And some brands of seamless are perfectly round, for example Xiom and Yinhe. 

I like the Nittaku Premium best also, they are clearly closest to celluloid.  We have not seen the D40+ yet.  I personally am not a big fan of the G40.  Very slick surface of the ball.

Xsf and its variation ( same factory) tibhar xiom.... bounce is ok but they are wooby and little spin characteristics.
Old balls and nittaku premium and G40+ meet same characteristics in roundness bounce and spin. So all the others should be labeled 2 stars till they meet EXACTLY THESE CHARACTERISTICS. That what i think. 2 years is more than enough. Action should be taken now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

 
Xsf and its variation ( same factory) tibhar xiom.... bounce is ok but they are wooby and little spin characteristics.
Old balls and nittaku premium and G40+ meet same characteristics in roundness bounce and spin. So all the others should be labeled 2 stars till they meet EXACTLY THESE CHARACTERISTICS. That what i think. 2 years is more than enough. Action should be taken now.

The ITTF will first have to quantify "wobbly" and "spin characteristics".  That is what I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Perhaps this is the person who knows pretty well of the D40+ actual performance, able to answer your most questions.

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=327416#p327416


Yes, the performance of the 1* and 2* ones is encouraging.  But I repeat again, they are not ITTF approved for a reason, and the 3* version does not yet exist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 8:56am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

IS DHS BALL MONOPOLY GETTING NEAR END?

Agreement of cooperation that ITTF made with DHS scheduled for 2012 2016.. By which, ITTF had undertook longterm obligation to only use DHS balls for major events.
It has expired by now, immediately from after Rio Olympics.

So, can we expect some seamless ball to be now adopted for major ITTF events, eg. Kingnik or Tibhar seamless?

Don't know if it is official but looks like they have the date extended for another 4 years to 2020. Hope they will at least replace it with D40+ in the near future if it has to be DHS. 



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 9:13am
ITTF does not care about players. TurboZ just provided the proof.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 9:51am
Looks like ittf had already approved the D40+ 3 stars. DHS even have the box prepared. May be they just want the market to consume all the existing 40+ before giving us the new ball. Anyway TT11 is having 50% discount on their DHS 40+ 3 stars at the moment. Is that a sign of the coming of D40+? I hope so. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 3:03pm
Well, ball supplier for WTTC 2017 will be Nittaku. Table sponsor will be DHS, though.




From left to right: DHS President 楼世和(Lou Shihe), ITTF President Thomas Weihert, Nittaku International Department Chief 高林 博光(Hiromitsu Takabayashi)

Source: http://www.nittaku.com/topics/detail.php?id=697

Edited by zeio - 11/28/2016 at 3:21pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 4:18pm
Mmm it is obvious they know which is better. My second thought is that companies like stiga , joola , donic. .. all these dhs clones stop ordering until they fix their balls or just go to butterfly or nittaku to produce their products. Just an idea!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Mmm it is obvious they know which is better. My second thought is that companies like stiga , joola , donic. .. all these dhs clones stop ordering until they fix their balls or just go to butterfly or nittaku to produce their products. Just an idea!


Yes.  Wish they had done this already, actually.  Several of these companies now sell a seamless version, which I suspect reflects their unhappiness with the DHS ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Well, ball supplier for WTTC 2017 will be Nittaku. Table sponsor will be DHS, though.




Source: http://www.nittaku.com/topics/detail.php?id=697


Well, I feel a little less upset with ITTF with that news.  Of course maybe Nittaku just paid a larger bribe.  But I am going to try to make myself believe it is because their ball is better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Mickael Mickael wrote:

Mmm it is obvious they know which is better. My second thought is that companies like stiga , joola , donic. .. all these dhs clones stop ordering until they fix their balls or just go to butterfly or nittaku to produce their products. Just an idea!

The biggest issue for Nittaku is production capacity. The company has only one factory. DHS blows it out of the water. Even TSP has two factories.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 4:58pm
Butterfly was the ball supplier of last WTTC so the DHS contract may just be for World Tour and the likes only. 



There will be packs of new balls coming such as Donic P40+, Double Fish V40+, Nittaku NSD40+ and Yasaka SLB40+. All made in China and probably using the same D40+ design. Suddenly I see hopes again in the future. LOL 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Well, ball supplier for WTTC 2017 will be Nittaku. Table sponsor will be DHS, though.




Source: http://www.nittaku.com/topics/detail.php?id=697


Well, I feel a little less upset with ITTF with that news.  Of course maybe Nittaku just paid a larger bribe.  But I am going to try to make myself believe it is because their ball is better.

To make you feel better, San-Ei will be the official table supplier for Tokyo, after the immense success at Rio. Who doesn't want to see the Olympic Games played on Japanese soil with Japanese equipment? If Japan can't win gold, there will be no excuse, right?

Edited by zeio - 11/28/2016 at 5:06pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

Butterfly was the ball supplier of last WTTC so the DHS contract may just be for World Tour and the likes only. 



There will be packs of new balls coming such as Donic P40+, Double Fish V40+, Nittaku NSD40+ and Yasaka SLB40+. All made in China and probably using the same D40+ design. Suddenly I see hopes again in the future. LOL 


From the link in my earlier post, it reads in one picture:

53rd, 55th WTTTC
54th WTTC
Brazil 2016
Tokyo 2020
2014-2020 Men's, Women's WC
2014-2020 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals
CTTSL

Official distributor DHS HK's facebook makes a similar claim in one poster.

Feelsbadman.

Edited by zeio - 11/28/2016 at 7:36pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 7:06pm
What's with all these new balls coming out with a letter in front of the 40+? Is it just a naming convention for their new, and hopefully more consistent balls? Or does it actually mean something, like a different plastic compound?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 7:13pm
Just marketing. No naming convention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 7:40pm
G40+ = Gotcha 40+
D40+ = Duped 40+
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CroNone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 11:22pm
Slightly O.T. but just ordered some Nittaku Jtop 40+ training balls. After using Xushafa seamless training and even worse, Stag 1 star training I have a feeling these will be vastly better. The Stags moved like eggs in the air. Completely unpredictable.

I know that training balls are lower quality but I never had a problem with celluloid balls.
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