Shameless Lubomir Jancarik

Losing to a half crippled oldschool chopper is just a tad bit difficult to swallow for the egoistic muscular looper.

I think he was mad that Chtche took an extra long break between points after falling down. From his angle he might not have seen that Chtche almost twisted his ankle. Thats why he was mocking him. Still immature way to lose in my opinion.

Edited by DreiZ - 05/03/2016 at 7:08pm

vanjr wrote: I wanted to see the handshake at the end...if there was one!

I won't judge anyone without knowing the history of the two players.  Didn't seem to be that big of a deal either way.

Zeio nails it.

I did a bit of checking.  Chtchetinine has been inside the world top 100 for a good part of the last two decades and at one point was at least as high as 47.  He eats one-dimensional guys like Jancarik for lunch.

The Czech guy is currently 88 in the world but is 29 years old, so he's not a young guy, and has only been in the top 100 for the since the beginning of this year.  In fact, for most of the last 10 years, he has been between 150 and 200.  Probably he is simply returning to his usual form.

So even though Chtchetinine has been dealing with age, injuries and some lack of fitness, I don't see this as an upset. 

Wow, after reading all your comments I was expecting to see some real outburst. You really made something out of nothing. That was NOTHING, give me a break! 

Edited by Victor_the_cleaner - 05/04/2016 at 10:16am

my rule #1 in this forum is: Zeio is always right. However, reading carefully his line, I don't see a contradiction with my position and his. He didn't really condemn Jancarik's behavior, but explained it, and, yes, I bet he's right : )

As far as I watched, the flare started somewhere around 20:53 after Chtchetinine's thick edge.

VTC may be right about the limping.  I hadn;t really thought about that.  I for one can't know what EC felt (or Ding Ning) or how bad they were hurt.  Keep in mind that if there is a preexisting injury (as looks like the case for EC), it is a lot easier to re-injure the thing and it hurts a whole lot more.   I have no idea.  Maybe EC was intentionally trying to break momentum.  

Also, personally, I have no issues with the Czech guy swearing, I really think people clutch their pearls way too much about that (at our club the words flying around are foul in many languages) but mocking the injury?  Probably shouldn't have done that.  For sure, that is a bad look and the umpire is going to card you.  (I suspect the words Jancarik was using have cognates in Belorussian so EC knew exactly what he was saying!).

In any case, he certainly didn't want to lose to the old chopper!  That must have really stuck in his craw.  But he most certainly did.  I also don't think there is a contradiction between VTC and Zeio on this.

Here is what ITTF says in their latest Handbook for Match Officials

Think about the rhythm and momentum after last 5 points. All of a sudden, things were looking great for the young guy, if you pause the video at 8:7, after 5 in a row. 

Victor_the_cleaner wrote: Think about the rhythm and momentum after last 5 points. All of a sudden, things were looking great for the young guy, if you pause the video at 8:7, after 5 in a row.  Next two things that happen are long break and next point lost to net ball. Now your muscles are cold, you lost your tempo, and you are irritated. Your opponent feels a little guilty inside and tries to justify the break with limping. Notice that in all of this description of events it doesn't matter if the injury was real or fake. Do you really feel no compassion for the position of the young guy?? And what did he do? This is not even called cursing on the Balkans, and ChichoFicho knows that better than anybody. You wana see some real cursing? There is a compilation of angry TT players on youtube. The guy uttered some words, showed the limp once, and pretty much got over it. Have you never seen Russian or better yet Bulgarian curse? You can't even use the same verb to describe what east europeans do and what this young guy did.  And all the nasty criticism for that... Given those unpleasant circumstances I think we can be happy that this is all that happened during that match. If these 'injuries' keep 'happening' in such circumstances, one day we will see the real show. Nothing to watch here.

Here's a picture of him rolling his ankle.  Looks like he probably turned it a near 90 degrees.

zeio wrote: In case people didn't know, Chuang Chih-yuan thought the injury was bull in a comment on his facebook the day after.

You mean Ding Ning's injury in the WTTC final?

ZingyDNA wrote: zeio wrote: In case people didn't know, Chuang Chih-yuan thought the injury was bull in a comment on his facebook the day after. You mean Ding Ning's injury in the WTTC final?

As was already commented on above - even if DN was not hurt that badly, I quite understand her trying to not put a lot of weight on that ankle (what if she does and the resulting heavy injury kills the rest of the match and possibly her future career?).

Did she maybe use that long timeout as a way to waste some time, to try and stop LSW's momentum? quite possible and very likely... was that against the rules? clearly, not. Was that invented right there on the spot after she fell? like she falls and that thinks to herself "ok, let me fake a bad injury so I can get a medical timeout and try and turn the game around" (that would be very unsportsmanlike and clearly deserving of disrespect and lots of booing from us).

One might think that way, but here is why I don't think it was a pure fake. For the rest of the match (score at that point was 2-0 to LSW in 7th set) DN never once ran or moved as if there was no injury.

So is she a consummate actress with amazing yoga-like command of her mind and body? well, to some degree, but still...

On top of that she had to change the style to some considerable degree and play a game that follows the "supposedly invented" restriction on her movements and speed - all of it for the glimmer of hope that she somehow will be able to psych LSW into going easier on her or getting too confident of the win? does it seem to you like it could be really worth it?

Well, yes - it is possible, but to me - unlikely.

An analogy - when two chess grandmasters A and B are playing a match and in a relatively equal situation with some intangible momentum on A's side B decides to sacrifice a knight without any visible (and real) justification - not because he can see a good outcome for him, but only for the hint of a possible initiative and also with a hope of psyching A into thinking "there must be something in that, what the hell is going on", so that A wastes extra time on his moves, so that he becomes less confident etc. Possible? well yes but only if
a) B is known for sometimes employing semi-crazy ideas like that
b) A is known for being psychologically vulnerable, and he can be rattled by such tricks
c) situation is such that losing that knight is not enough of a disadvantage to obviously lose the game right away

In our case - again, not likely. DN is not known for stuff like that or for any crazy psychological tricks. LSW's days of being easily rattled were five years in the past. Giving up such a huge thing as being able to run and turn and jump is just too much.

But this is of course not an ironclad proof, just a commonsensical, educated guess.

ChichoFicho wrote: There is no excuse for Lubomir folks. He is terrible.

So?