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Tibhar Evolution EL-S and FX-S

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Chopper88 Chopper88 wrote:

Am I the only guy in this forum that think the EL-S is playable, Spin is on par with the Acuda Blues, Speed is good and controllable, the throw is also good , why do so many have issue with a good rubber ?


No, you are not. I could very easily use it. The question is what it solves for me vs 05.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 1:14pm
I see why they made MXS and ELS. ELS wouldn't replace my MXP but if you boost ELS and prefer a softer rubber to MXP with harder top sheet it can be very good.

After trying ELS Im kind of interested in MXS. Personally I like overall hardness of MXP but in theory a boosted MXS would play very similar to a boosted H3/H2 with similar arc but non tacky of course.

Oh the EJ syndrome...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

els is much slower, and much lower throw. Even less catapult than elp. 

at this point I have trouble understanding the purpose of the rubber.
EL-S is fantastic on fast composite blades like the MJ-SZLC or the Ovtcharov True Carbon on which, for some, other rubbers like the EL-P would be too bouncy. To me, it is a excellent BH rubber.

Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

Basically, after boosting, els becomes exactly like bluefire jp02, two years later.

They are quite different to me. It is very easy to generate spin with short BH strokes with EL-S (not so with the JP-02). To me, the JP02 topsheet needs a bigger swing to get spin from and it is better in blocking than EL-S.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by Chopper88 Chopper88 wrote:

Am I the only guy in this forum that think the EL-S is playable, Spin is on par with the Acuda Blues, Speed is good and controllable, the throw is also good , why do so many have issue with a good rubber ?


No, you are not. I could very easily use it. The question is what it solves for me vs 05.


IMO it's close enough to T05 , for me it's in between 05 and 05FX. I'm missing a bit of spin on the serves but not something that cannot be overcome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 3:43pm
IT's more linear than 05, which is good for people who need the control, but bad for me because I need the speed from the rubber on my blocks as I use slow blades.  I also struggle to loop from distance with it it.  But the spin is nice. I never complained about that, even on serves.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 4:21pm
I´m not complaining about it, but i was so excited about it and i´s just another plain/decent rubber w/o nothing special
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 10:49pm
Very interesting comments on this blog. I just completed my tests of the entire Evo range. I deliberately did not read the comments here before writing up my review, and I am astounded how similar our observations are... 
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Makelele Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2016 at 11:22pm
Looking forward to your reviews, Patrick!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2016 at 6:12pm
The reviews were just posted here today.
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2016 at 6:54pm
I'll let you know my impressions when I got mine next week. FXS looks promising to me but I was expecting to be faster than 05FX which I didn't like it at all with PB either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jasonh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2016 at 6:58pm
Enjoyed you review Patrick!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2016 at 8:51pm
Well, that convinced me to buy an EL-S these next few days. 

@Patrick - Would you say EL-S or FX-S has more catapult?


Edited by Chicobo - 11/11/2016 at 11:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2016 at 3:56am
I would say that FX-S has a little more catapult yet is slower if that makes sense.
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schlager72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2016 at 6:27am
@Patrick, as usual a very nice & in depth review. How ever I'm perplexed by by the "approximation chart", specifically for MX-P...

"Accordingly, there should be something for every taste, including current Butterfly Tenergy users. I think the following approximation chart is reasonable: MX-S = particularly hard-sponged variants of T05/T64; MX-P = T64; EL-S = T05, and FX-S = T05fx....."

Most of our respected forum members feel the MX-P plays closer to a T05 (maybe Baal would like to chime in, as he uses MX-P on both wings)...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2016 at 8:30am
I think it is more appropriate to say that if you use a Tenergy (05, 64, 80), you can adapt to MX-P without major changes in your technique. As much as people sometimes talk about the differences in the Tenergies, they are pretty similar as well.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/12/2016 at 8:31am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2016 at 11:21am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I think it is more appropriate to say that if you use a Tenergy (05, 64, 80), you can adapt to MX-P without major changes in your technique. As much as people sometimes talk about the differences in the Tenergies, they are pretty similar as well.
+1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2016 at 5:26pm
I am not sure that Mxp is closer to t05 than Elp. Mxp is considerably harder than T05, and this means that the ball goes more "up" when brushing, more "down" on direct impact (loop drive). OTOH, Elp has about the same hardness as t05, and the only difference with t05 is that the latter has much more catapult. 

as for mxs and els, they have lower throw, so I don't see a similarity at all with t05.


Edited by seguso - 11/12/2016 at 5:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2016 at 9:20pm
Let me clarify - none of the Evolution rubbers correlate 1:1 with Tenergy rubbers. What I wanted to suggest is that T05 and T05fx users could relatively easily switch to EL-S and FX-S, respectively. MX-P (and MX-S in particular) are quite different from T05 (lower throw) - I seem to remember T64 as a lower throwing rubber relative to T05, hence the MX-P ~ T64 suggestion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adishorul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 5:42am
Can anybody compare evo el-s with omega v euro ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 6:37am
Originally posted by adishorul adishorul wrote:

Can anybody compare evo el-s with omega v euro ?
El-s is harder and spinnier than the omega V euro, though the OV is definitely easier to use and feels better on the bh. Also, I guess the OV has a higher throw (not sure though).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 7:01am
Originally posted by adishorul adishorul wrote:

Can anybody compare evo el-s with omega v euro ?

I have both.

Omega V euro is a hard and slow rubber with very high throw (think of a slower M1). 

It plays similar to a chinese rubber, because it is less reactive (i.e. has less catapult) than a usual european rubber (say M1 or m2), and is very very grippy.

El-s is a rubber of medium hardness, slow, with medium (or even medium-low) throw.

So, I don't know which one is slower, but they differ a lot in throw and hardness.




Edited by seguso - 11/13/2016 at 7:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmba_x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 11:00am
Seguso, I am currently using FX-P on the forehand. May I ask what are your reasons for the EL-P on the FH, comparatively? Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 11:24am
Originally posted by cmba_x cmba_x wrote:

Seguso, I am currently using FX-P on the forehand. May I ask what are your reasons for the EL-P on the FH, comparatively? Thanks!

of course. el-p differs from fx-p only in hardness. (same throw and catapult.)

why elp on forehand and fxp on backhand? It all comes down to hardness: softer rubbers are faster at low power, slower at high power.

on backhand, often I loop only with the wrist, and can't generate much power that way. Fxp is faster in this shot. (and also it shoots more forward, not upwards.) This is what I need for backhand. If i flip the blade and try to do backhand with el-p, the ball shoots slower and upwards. Not what I want.

On the other hand I can't use fxp on forehand, because with the power I employ on my forehand shots (where I always use a bit of arm, never just the wrist), the fxp would be slower. (and would give me less spin also).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmba_x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 1:48pm
Thanks! I got some FX-Ps on special offer from a French Shop (celebrating Lebesson's win in the Euro, and apparently Lebesson's setup).

It was a one shot buy, but I actually am very surprised and very satisfied with both on BH and FH, at my level. FX-P specially on backhand has been quite a jump, in all positive aspects, compared to my previous setup, which was probably too 'hard' for my current technique (OVA/FH+Latika+OVT/BH).

On BH I really don't feel a need for change. And I don't feel any thing lacking on FH, but maybe EL-P can bring a something else, then it is something to try!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 2:05pm
FX-s is much lower throw than 05fx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by cmba_x cmba_x wrote:

maybe EL-P can bring a something else, then it is something to try!

elp is the obvious choice, and I have been using it for almost 1 year, so you can't have  suprises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 4:44pm
Even though iv loved how el-p played on my FH on a friend's setup, does its topsheet wear out really quick ? common complaint I heard from some ppl, and thought it made sense since it's pimple geom ain't the same as mx-p. Also heard that it's topsheet goes kinda 'dead' pretty quick, as in hard and unresponsive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2016 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:

Even though iv loved how el-p played on my FH on a friend's setup, does its topsheet wear out really quick ? common complaint I heard from some ppl, and thought it made sense since it's pimple geom ain't the same as mx-p. Also heard that it's topsheet goes kinda 'dead' pretty quick, as in hard and unresponsive.

I found ELP durable. (say two months easily, playing 4 times a week). Especially the topsheet, does not lose grip easily. When you change it, it won't be for the topsheet, but because the rubber will seem slower and more "numb". but never unplayable. Also, can be revived considerably with booster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2016 at 4:51am
Update on EL-s: on backhand it has some very interesting properties: the ball stays low, so it allows you to be very aggressive with backhand, against a blocking opponent. For comparison, with elp or fxp, or rasant turbo, the ball tends to go more upwards, so that you have problems using all the power. 

So, actually it seems a very good rubber for backhand.

The lack of catapult is not a big problem on backhand. The ball seems to have enough power to finish against a blocker, as I said. (You need a fast blade though --- This is on clipper CR and clipper CC.)

The flip seems to be good also. I will test it more there.

Also, the rubber grip makes it good for openings, but we knew that. 

On forehand, el-s can be used, if you adjust the technique for the lower throw, and such a throw could make sense with the plastic ball, where trying to produce excessive arcs is counterproductive. But I still believe it does not have enough power/catapult. A rasant turbo seems to have much more sense there. (rasant turbo has a bit higher throw, medium, and is harder than el-s). 




Edited by seguso - 12/30/2016 at 6:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2017 at 12:07pm
thanks for the info seguso!   On my faster blade,  I am going to try some FX-S 1.9 on both sides. I just hope it wont be too soft.   Using Vega Japan 2.0 now.   

I have never tried the Sigma 2 Europe and have always wanted to because of the lower through.  Sounds like the EL-S might be a better rubber than S2E for spin?  


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