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The sudden increase in speed on a FH loop

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Poll Question: Where should the sudden increase in speed come from primarily
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [13.64%]
1 [4.55%]
1 [4.55%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [9.09%]
1 [4.55%]
10 [45.45%]
1 [4.55%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [4.55%]
1 [4.55%]
1 [4.55%]
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Simon_plays View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/24/2016 at 6:05am
Took a bit of video the other day and was told by one player that I need to 'swing suddenly faster just before connection point'. I was wondering, what should I focus on to try and get this sudden extra speed in that really short space? My guess is that I need to focus more on the snap of my elbow closing on account of the whole movement of my body. 

Any replies welcome Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 7:40am
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Took a bit of video the other day and was told by one player that I need to 'swing suddenly faster just before connection point'. I was wondering, what should I focus on to try and get this sudden extra speed in that really short space? My guess is that I need to focus more on the snap of my elbow closing on account of the whole movement of my body. </span>
<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Any replies welcome Smile</span>


It's the timing of the whip mechanics, which are expressed in the forearm snap but are really a culmination of what you use to snap that forearm.

The reason why many players swing evenly is that they are used to being able to track and read the quality of the ball. They probably hit with coaches or hitting partners who know how to feed them a consistent ball. However in matches, the ball is moving and doesn't always show up where you want it to be. Pips players will often take spin off the ball so it won't kick out to you. Kick blockers will make the ball move more or less in the vertical plane so you have to time the ball or you will racket edge it. Therefore, being able to line up the ball and bring your energy to bear on the ball after you have tracked it properly is helpful. Large and even swings will only work when you are reading the ball well.

Think about snapping your forearm as being similar to cracking a whip. When you Crack a whip, it is the energy from the whole swing that snaps it. Same with the forearm and elbow snap. You need it to feel loose at the elbow so that when you throw the forearm forward, it accelerates faster than the rest of the swing similar to how a whip does. Loose wrist and a grip that allows the racket to move in the hand also helps. Good luck.
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Tt Gold View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 8:49am
If you want power then train the legs, but in general you need a good combination of everything.Maybe you just got a strength increase?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 8:55am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

If you want power then train the legs, but in general you need a good combination of everything.Maybe you just got a strength increase?


It's very important to know the level of player you are speaking to when giving this kind of advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 11:21am
Yes but it was a general question with no detail so I gave a general answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lucifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 11:41am
inner chi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandiway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 4:01pm
At a decent level, speed is from weight shift forwards. Spin is from forearm (close) snap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2016 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

At a decent level, speed is from weight shift forwards. Spin is from forearm (close) snap.

That may be a useful way to think about it from a psychological standpoint, but I don't think that is a good explanation at all from the physical standpoint of what is actually happening when racket strikes ball.  

Both speed and spin are functions of racket angle and racket speed (ignoring the initial ball velocity and spin for the moment in order to keep things simpler). Your forearm and legs both contribute to the racket speed.

There is no division between amount of ball spin and ball speed based on what was used to generate the racket speed.  There is only racket speed, there isn't leg racket speed and forearm racket speed. The division between speed and spin occurs due to the direction of the stroke, the angle of the racket and the type of surface covering on the racket.

I would also take some issue with the notion  that the OP's friend put forward, that you want to "swing suddenly faster" right before contact.  What you actually want to do is time peak racket velocity to occur at or very near the moment of contact. And the way to get the greatest peak is from a well coordinated and combined effort from your leg, trunk, shoulder, forearm and wrist movements.

I think NextLevel's whip analogy is pretty much correct.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sandiway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2016 at 2:24am
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

At a decent level, speed is from weight shift forwards. Spin is from forearm (close) snap.

That may be a useful way to think about it from a psychological standpoint, but I don't think that is a good explanation at all from the physical standpoint of what is actually happening when racket strikes ball.  

Of course, forces sum. But the idea is that the decomposition I put forward is a very useful one.  It is taught by many Chinese coaches. The essential idea is that looper can vary these two parameters to *reliably* get a range of different loops to suit different situations. 

For example, by varying the forearm snap, one can choose to increase the amount of spin on the loop. By stepping forward aggressively with the left leg (assuming one is right-handed), one can increase the speed of the ball greatly (while using the same forearm snap). To borrow the force from the incoming ball, one might choose to transfer less weight from the right to the left leg.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTHOUSTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2016 at 11:15pm
It is not easy to explain by words, you need to see it and copy it many time then you may understand it. Here is few tip I would like to speak out and this is my experience only.
1- The bracket must contact the ball BEFORE the ball start to drop.
2- The best contact to the ball between your body (count by your shoulder) should be triangle. If the ball close to your right shoulder then it is more spin than speed (I am talk with people play right hand side)
3- You are on the way looping so  I don't need to say how to loop in here but when you want a killing shot, suddenly you increase power from your waist and shoulder APPLY with number 1 and 2 I say above and the bracket should go forward than upward then the ball will go fast.
Remember, when the ball ALREADY drop, then you do this way it may hit to the net.
Like I said, It is hard to explain by words, practice with coach is better. 
Timing is a key in here because you try to break the rhythm from normal loop to killing loop. 


Edited by TTHOUSTON - 08/31/2016 at 11:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taczkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2016 at 4:55pm
I agree with all the things you listed, and yes you need combination of all the things to generate speed. One thing I wanted to add is especially for forehand topspin hitting the ball at TOP of the bounce will definitely increase the speed of your topspin.
You need great technique/form skill to perform this correctly and land the ball on the table - once you do you will hit bullets!

watch this (https://youtu.be/3n0xXJC4BOE)at 1:00 (backhand) shows what happens when you time it correctly, and execute perfect swing/form

or watch this forehand topspin at top of bounce (https://youtu.be/2EFQd56ri0Y)


This is by a 2300 player who has one of the best Topspin I've seen.
Way better than most top players in USA...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2016 at 6:44pm
I vote loose forearm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2016 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

I vote loose forearm

If you include loose wrist and fingers then yes...these two elements are more important than a loose forearm for acceleration.  This is the reason why Korean penholders are so explosive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2016 at 7:02pm
yeah, all that.  I'm not sure I can loosen one without loosening the rest.
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