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USATT adopting the coaching rule???

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mts388 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

“Move that tournaments may opt to operate under the new ITTF coaching rule 3.5.1.3 if noted on the entry form.”

is it my poor English or there is some typo there? 


Typo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

“Move that tournaments may opt to operate under the new ITTF coaching rule 3.5.1.3 if noted on the entry form.”

is it my poor English or there is some typo there? 


Typo
I must be very tired after a long day. Where's the typo?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 5:57pm
I did not see any typo either, my English must be bad.

However, Kudos to larrytt & the rest of the team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by larrytt larrytt wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

“Move that tournaments may opt to operate under the new ITTF coaching rule 3.5.1.3 if noted on the entry form.”

is it my poor English or there is some typo there? 


Typo
I must be very tired after a long day. Where's the typo?
-Larry
I understand better the quoted text if it is the 2nd part of a sentence that started I do not know where.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 6:43pm
I thought is should say that local tournaments should be able to opt to not use the ITTF rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 7:05pm
Looks fine to me. My understanding is that the decision was NOT to adopt the NEW rule and for the USATT to do that "properly" they had to "reinstate" the OLD rule(as the ITTF has effectively replaced the OLD rule with the NEW rule, meaning the former does NOT exist anymore) and tournaments may "opt in" on the new rule as they see fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2016 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Looks fine to me. My understanding is that the decision was NOT to adopt the NEW rule and for the USATT to do that "properly" they had to "reinstate" the OLD rule(as the ITTF has effectively replaced the OLD rule with the NEW rule, meaning the former does NOT exist anymore) and tournaments may "opt in" on the new rule as they see fit.


My understanding also.

Anyway, thanks Larry!!!!   You made our part of the world slightly better today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mycuzinvinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2016 at 2:49pm
From Larry's blog, an update on the coaching rule:

"USATT will stick with the rule of coaching only between games and a timeout, except in tournaments that state otherwise on their entry form, or that are run under ITTF rules (such as the U.S. Open in December)."

A tournament can have the new coaching rule as long as they post it in their entry form/tournament documentation.  US Open will have the new coaching rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2017 at 2:55pm
KEEP COACHING BETWEEN RALLIES AND SPOIL THE BOY.   

Friends,

I bet you have scarcely seen coaches giving vocal instruction or hand signals whenever in between the rallies. Just some brief yellings to keep up player's combatant spirit.
The reason for the coach not to give any practical advice between rallies is the player's retard psyhology that players will not able to properly respond to any instructions by the advicer in the heat of play.
Most of the learned coaches well aware of those restrictions of human psyhology, hence

1) Experienced coach will never interfere with player's game by giving some practical advice between rallies.
2)   Experienced coach will keep speachless all the time excepting for the 1minute breaks between games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2017 at 10:19pm
The NA Joola Teams in DC 2016 used the coaching between points rule. My quick observations were that in my division, everyone kept it real and mostly complied.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2017 at 11:01pm
I believe the rule has now been adopted fully by USATT. Not sure where I saw that though so I could be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2017 at 11:07pm
Sometimes I can't help thinking that the people who make up new ITTF rules are people with deep-seated resentments who  do their best to harm the sport.  It's not the case of course, it just seems that way.

Personally, I would welcome some insane coach yelling advice to my opponent in between every point*.  I can't think of anything that would be more likely to make them lose concentration.  But it's still not a great rule.

*can you imagine what some of the more unhinged parents will do to their kids? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2017 at 11:32pm
Have coach give give false advice (pre-arranged) and watch the LULZ of the serious side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2017 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I believe the rule has now been adopted fully by USATT. Not sure where I saw that though so I could be wrong.
You are correct. It was adopted about 2 weeks ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2017 at 1:12am
It doesn't matter, NL likes putting heavy topspin on the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mycuzinvinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2017 at 9:49am
The new coaching ITTF rule has been in effect since mid-December.  According to the minute meetings for the USATT rules committee on Dec 12th, the USATT board elected to adopt the ITTF coaching rule.  You can find the documents on the rules page, http://www.teamusa.org/usa-table-tennis/rules .

From the meeting minutes: 

"Status of the Coaching Rule
Kagin informed the committee that the USATT Board voted to adopt the ITTF coaching rule, effective immediately. Joseph noted that there has been little effect in major international tournaments. It will take years for us to see what the long term effect of this is."

The guidance document is also on the page, the words from Kagin Lee, Chair of the Rules committee:

Dear Players,

Effective immediately, the USATT Board of Directors has voted to adopt the coaching rules
used by the ITTF. For all competitions, both domestic and international, coaches are
permitted to give advice to players between points.

This decision was not made lightly, and there are both good and bad aspects of this change.
Please be aware that this rule has already been used in the German professional league for
several years, in international competition for a few months, and in a few dozen tournaments
within the US.

The Rules Committee had given this guidance for players at those few competitions which
would use the new rule. Because it now applies to all tournaments, I strongly advise all players
to read the guidance in order to understand the principles of this change.
Guidance for Conduct at Tournaments Which Permit Advice between Points

To understand what is permitted and what is not, it is important to keep in mind that all other
rules still apply, and in many cases those rules dictate when advice may be given.
The most important consideration is the requirement for continuous play. Play must be
continuous between one point and the next. When a point ends, the coach is permitted to give
advice, but the advice can only be given during the natural time between rallies; usually, the
time it takes to pick up the ball. A player who stalls in order to receive advice should be
penalized. A coach whose advice causes the match to be delayed should also be penalized.
The time between points can vary. Sometimes the ball goes to the back barriers; in that case
there is a longer period between points, and advice is permitted during this time. Likewise if
there is a towel break (every six points), advice may be given during the towel break, but a
player should not extend the towel break in order to receive more advice. If the time between
points is very short, there may be little to no time for advice.

Another overriding rule is the prohibition of behavior that may unfairly affect an opponent. It's
okay if a coach says between points, "Go to the forehand". It's not okay if the coach says, "This
guy's forehand is terrible, keep going there." Advice that is disparaging or unfairly affects an
opponent is not permitted.

It is normal for tournaments to have dozens of tables in play at the same time. The next court
may be only 10 feet away, and things that occur on your court can easily affect play on another
court. If everyone starts yelling advice between every point on every court, it could be
impossible to play table tennis in the gym. In the US, table tennis is an indoor sport that takes
place without shouting, and officials can penalize players or coaches who go too far.

Therefore if you wish to give or receive advice between points, it may be best if you use hand
signals and gestures. Signals are fast and won't disturb the environment of play.
Here are some simple examples of behavior that is not permitted. Not all situations are covered,
but it should help give an idea of how things will work under the new rule:
 A player walking back to the coach between points
 A player taking a long time to pick up the ball in order to receive advice
 A player kicking the ball over to the barriers in order to delay the match and receive
advice
 A player talking to the coach when the players are otherwise ready to begin the point
 A coach yelling advice while players are trying to begin the point
 A coach giving advice during a rally
 A coach yelling advice that could be considered offensive or could unfairly affect the
opponent

Kagin Lee, Chair, USATT Rules Committee
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