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Innerforce ZLF vs Zhang Jike ALC. pls help, it wou |
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Ladon1997 
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 Topic: Innerforce ZLF vs Zhang Jike ALC. pls help, it wouPosted: 10/21/2016 at 8:43am |
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ZLF is a soft feeling blade, more flexible than ALC , speedy blade with zylon fiber inlaid. However, it is not a carbon blade , comparatively become less power to ALC .
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albert19
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 9:09am |
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what is your blade now?
For your descirption is possible that you need is Zhang Jike Alc but Innerforce zlf is a awesome blade too. |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 9:33am |
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Try Andro Hi Loom , this is new material similar to zlylon but consist of carbon power . The material is called NPF
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 9:57am |
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ZLF is definitely faster than ALC .
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slevin
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 11:37am |
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Hey, stud you! Which national team do you play in? USA? The only blocker I know in US junior national team uses Joola products. The ALC blade is more powerful and stiffer than the Innerforce ZLF (which may be a bit too weak at your level unless you use >=90g blade weight. The IF-ZLF is easier to spin with but not as good for blocking (which may be a dealbreaker for you). Hope that helps...
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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Baal
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 1:50pm |
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Actually on another forum he mentioned he plays at junior national level in Chile, which could actually happen that quickly.
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Baal
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 1:51pm |
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No. ZLCs are faster. If it is just the zylon without the carbon (hence ZLF), substantially slower than ALC. This could be a major expenditure for this fellow and I understand that he is trying to get all the information he can. I can't help him much with Innerfiber blades. I suspect his game will develop perfectly well with either of these. I am not entirely sure why he would go with a ZJK-ALC instead of a TB-ALC unless it is a distinct handle preference. I could understand that, especially for ST ones. The ZJK version of Btfly ALC costs a bit more than the Boll version for no good reason. And if it is a handle preference, it means that someone where he lives owns one and he has held it in his hand, and in that case, why not just hit a few balls to see if you like it? |
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bard romance
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 3:56pm |
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ZLF blades are distinctly slower than ALC blades, this isn't really a matter of opinion but fact. America - Ladon seems to comment a lot on what he doesn't know about, I would be careful reading his suggestions.
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DreiZ
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 4:15pm |
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ZLC > ALC > ZLF speed wise. Just to confirm this.
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Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm USATT: 1725 |
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Baal
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 4:38pm |
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Absolutely. No question about this at all. |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 7:19pm |
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ZLF is definitely got higher speed than ALC . If you look at the Blade Matrix in Shakehand in 2011 Butterfly Catalogue, page 18 , ZLF series ( Photino , TM ZLF , IFZLF) are above 9 out of 11, while ALC (TMALC , TMS , MM , viscaria, IFALC ) are below 9 , spotting at about 8.5 out of 11. In this chart , Schlager Carbon T5000 is the highest rank at 10.5 . Guys shall make reference if you can quote ALC faster than ZLF , offer your reference to appeal , go not assume or based on your personal opinion. |
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bard romance
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 7:26pm |
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Ah, so you post based on 5 year old company-released blade charts, rather than personal experience. Kind of confirms what everyone already knew.
Edited by bard romance - 10/21/2016 at 7:26pm |
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slevin
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 7:30pm |
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Ladon1997, I mean this in a nice way: referring to the BTY 'Blade Matrix' to support your opinion shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
Here's a homework assignment for you: feel free to browse forum history and find at least 3 other examples of inconsistencies / incorrect data in that matrix. It ain't that hard.
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 7:40pm |
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This is data , never phased out , good reference . This chart is officially done by Butterfly . You can also have it in recent years Catalogue with some new blade inserted. In 2015, they develop another chart consists reaction property / vibration property taking over this chart. However , this new chart nothing tells about speed and control
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piligrim
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 7:55pm |
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why not TB ALC? can't go wrong with this blade
ZLF definitely slower then ALC |
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Baal
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 8:27pm |
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I know speed of ALC vs ZLF because I've actually played with them. The Btfly matrix is mostly useless. This is actually quite well known.
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DreiZ
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 8:57pm |
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Off topic, but is the Vega Pro ST as balanced as TB ALC? |
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Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm USATT: 1725 |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 9:19pm |
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it doesn't make any sense on your comments to Manufacturers data are useless. Might be you are incapable to use theses blades . Waste money .
There is another quote from an independent party , Paddle Palace, the largest TT equipment supplier in NA : despite he is not a primary dealer of Butterfly, he also use their standard to make a good analysis on speed and control about ZLF and ALC blade : PP Catalogue #302 - P.52 TM ZLF rates 93/62 ZJ ALC rates 92/60 Photino rates 96/59 I think you guys use Innershied ZLF to compare with ZJ ALC which 56/74 to 92/60 If you don't look at data, from material point of view , Zylon Fiber has higher elasticity then Alylate and perform higher speed . Take you time to use scientific data to support your opinion iwith it , don't just say I owned and played them . Nothing can help one just knows iron , steels also exits.... |
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bard romance
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 9:53pm |
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wow yes nice very scientific you are right zlf is faster because paddle palace said so thanks
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/21/2016 at 11:45pm |
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1 kg of Cotton and 1 kg of iron are dropped from a certain height . Which one would touch the ground first ?
Piligrim and Baal got the same answer ! 
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Baal
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Posted: 10/22/2016 at 1:13am |
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In a vacuum they would hit the ground at the same time. Who do you think you are dealing with?
Look, it's not just my opinion, it is the opinion of every single player on this forum who has played with Btfly ALC and ZLF blades. But I don't want to argue about it. You want to believe that ZLF is faster than ALC? It makes you feel better? You go right ahead. The fact that you referenced a chart on "control" of a blade with a straight face tells me what I need to know. |
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Baal
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Posted: 10/22/2016 at 1:53am |
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MX-P is a little bit faster and harder than T05. I can switch from one to the other pretty easily. The blades are quite different from each other. It is really impossible for us to know which one YOU would like better. Both are fine for counterlooping. They feel different. One has much more of a wood feel because the composite layer is deeper and is slowe because there is no carbon. You can certainly counterloop with it just fine.
I learned at a point to avoid buying expensive blades I hadn't tried. Stuff on the internet was occasionally helpful, sometimes not. |
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piligrim
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Posted: 10/22/2016 at 8:02am |
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Photino and Innerforce ZLF very different in speed. don't mix it up. OP is asked about IF ZLF, not about Photino |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/22/2016 at 9:01am |
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ZLF represents Material Zy Lon Fiber , Photino is one of the blades made so this material. If shall be included in this abbreviation noun .
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piligrim
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Posted: 10/22/2016 at 9:58am |
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OP question was about specific blade. not in general about ZyLon Fiber there is many blades made with ZyLon Fiber and they all have different speed |
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opinari
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Posted: 10/22/2016 at 10:27am |
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Ladon - Just as a FYI, the statement above is wrong. The old Butterfly ratings were phased out because they were such a poor reference. Butterfly intentionally replaced them with reaction and vibration numbers, which supposedly are based on consistent objective tests. The reaction number directly reflects the speed of the ball after bouncing off of a blade straight on. Re: OP's question, Butterfly itself rates the speed of the ZJK ALC (11.8) as faster than the Innerforce Layer ZLF (9.6). See below for Butterfly's own report on the matter. 2015, Butterfly introduced the “reaction” and “vibration” property as means to quantify the characteristics of a blade. What may seem like a minor change is actually a major switch in philosophy. . . . Mitsuru HAYASE, expert in fundamental research started to improve on this system 3 years ago:
While the “reaction property” measures the speed of the ball after bouncing off the racket “straight on”, the “vibration property” measures the number (or frequency) of swings the blade produces in the hands of the player. The higher the speed of the ball bouncing off the blade, the higher the reaction property. The higher the number (or frequency) of swings produced by the blade, the higher the vibration property. A higher frequency equals less feedback from the blade, making it more difficult to control. On the other hand, there are players who will value a high vibration property and are not compromised in their control of such blades. Both values aim at informing a player of the property they can expect from each Butterfly blade – and supporting their decision for one product. This will help players more compared to the subjective “speed” and “feeling” values, which thusly have been replaced. |
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Blade: BTY Zhang Jike ALC-CS
FH: BTY Tenergy 05 BH: BTY Rozena |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/23/2016 at 12:06pm |
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Thank you OPINARI: Your quote is inappropriate because I have distrusted this Reaction / Vibration Chart despite Butterfly developed for its own blade : 1. No manufacturer adopts to use these terminology to present characteristics of their blade yet - Not commonly use I can say. 2. Terminology is vague and need explanations , such explanations are not listing is any of their Catalogue. what does it implies ? 3. No details to list how they establish these data , how they carry out consistent subject test . Is reaction varies in different level of behaviour? - Mystery I can only reconsider to recognize your quoted statement if you can answer my questions above. |
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Baal
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Posted: 10/23/2016 at 1:32pm |
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And yet you quoted their earlier blade matrix
 Here is an important point Ladon. Your claim as to the speed of ZLF vs. ALC has been contradicted by EVERY single commenter who has played with both blades who has weighed on, on not just one but two different international TT forums. This is what happens when you say stuff about equipment you have quite obviously never tried (among many other fecal posts) It is true that certain blade properties that people talk about are hard to measure objectively, or even to feel (and so a lot of stuff on EJ threads about blades I just ignore). But speed is one of the things that you can readily feel and see. Another one is overall blade stiffness (not the same as hardness or softness). As to how Btfly tries to now measure things more objectively, they don't provide a lot of detail and I don't expect them to to. Most likely it entails high speed video recording among other things. But their earlier blade matrix was much much much worse and had stuff that was just plainly wrong. |
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Ladon1997
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Posted: 10/23/2016 at 8:20pm |
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BAAL ,
Please be mindful to read very carefully about each posting before you post your valuable expression. Unfortunately, I find this time you are totally misinterpreting . Take your time to read this topic from top to bottom again, THANK YOU |
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bard romance
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Posted: 10/23/2016 at 9:05pm |
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nvm
Edited by bard romance - 10/23/2016 at 9:07pm |
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America wrote: