New Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC.S

smash_fan wrote: Hey guys, did anyone get to try out this blade's brother - the Innerforce Layer ZLF? It is even thinner 5.3mm, and supposedly more spin. Hard to find in the USA still, but getting great reviews in Japan. Tempted to make a long overdue switch from my trusted Butterfly Jonyer-H for one of these.

any new update for this blade? if some one can compare it to innerforce ALC and innerforce ZLC? thx in advance

player87 wrote: alcS is slower than layer alc with the same blade weight

what about control and feeling? a bit slower is fine but i expect more control since it is thinner. 

player87 wrote: I didn't play with alcS just know it is slower. I will get more control definitely as well as it will give you possibility to lift underspin easier.

Aakiraa wrote: mon22 wrote: player87 wrote: I didn't play with alcS just know it is slower. I will get more control definitely as well as it will give you possibility to lift underspin easier. I agree. Lifting backspin was very easy (good blade to learn and understand, steps to executing power loops) This just lacked linearity for me. And top speed is fast enough, but due to the emphasis of SPIN, top end speed not as penetrating as the TIMO BOLL blades (harder feel, faster speed)  Throw angle was definitely high.Sometimes the blade gave more pop than what you hoped for.  The best thing about the blade is control (due to high throw giving me a sense of longer dwell time) and the FEEL (very nice feeling ALC blade. Not as mushy as a pure ZLF blade) what about innerforce ALC? does it also act nonlinear? by the way have u any experience with tiago apolonia? I wanna replace one of them to my old Kong Linghui Special.

Regular layer ALC I didn't notice nonlinearity. I think it depends on rubbers a lot. If you use 05FX let say on fast carbon blade you will probably notice how non linear your setup is.

ALC is anyways more linear than ZLC which is in Apolonia. 

I used Innerforce ALC.S with baracuda on fh and bh, 89g, and found it to be a very very slow blade. Comparing to xiom vega pro and MJ zlc. Because of how thin it is, the ALC.S has a lot of vibration when hitting which may be good for some people, but for me I prefer a more solid feel, so the MJ is very much more preferred. ALC.S might be for someone who plays close to table counter hitting, but is too slow with not much power from mid to long distances.

ChrisPhung wrote: I used Innerforce ALC.S with baracuda on fh and bh, 89g, and found it to be a very very slow blade. Comparing to xiom vega pro and MJ zlc. Because of how thin it is, the ALC.S has a lot of vibration when hitting which may be good for some people, but for me I prefer a more solid feel, so the MJ is very much more preferred. ALC.S might be for someone who plays close to table counter hitting, but is too slow with not much power from mid to long distances.

It's not that slow. It's basic speed is around that of a Korbel,you just have to be a looper who plays with power or tactical spin.

This is a short review of the INNERFORCE LAYER ZLF after my first session using well-broken in rubber that I am intimately familiar with (Tenergy 05 max).

Speed: Medium (nowhere near speed of Boll ALC or Viscaria, slightly faster than wood Primorac or Korbel). The Butterfly chart is pretty accurate here.

Dwell: Decent (not as good as hinoki wood or the regular Boll ZLF and ZLCs, but to me has more dwell than Boll ALC or Viscaria). I also think vibration/ feel is good relative to special materials blades, and hand feedback is decent (but not nearly as good as an all wood). I personally suffered on short game due to this.

Kick/ Gears: 2 gears that kick-in firstly around 2nd gear (think of a car with 5-gears), and then around 5th gear on finishing attacks, loop-drive, smash, etc. The 2nd gear kick is a weird one for me and causes pop-up/out problems on serve and serve-receive.

Weight: 86 grams, head heavy to the point that it impacts shot-making, and will require getting used to.

Handle: thin (24mm) - in fact too thin IMHO - causing blade to be more floppy/ unbalanced than it should be. At least with Tenergy 05 on both sides. Nice quality and design though and sweat does not seep through handle to blade.

Usage:
This is a blade that requires strong power from looper or will be blocked back quite easily. Not for sub-1700 rated players IMO, as the gear that kicks in from zylon fiber does so earlier than expected (i.e. during return of serve or on a push). Flick is somehow not as easy as regular Boll ZLF due to this zylon gear kicking in, and less feel than wood - so it made chiquita flick more difficult than I expected. FH flip on the other hand was snappier than I expected and had penetration (that 5th gear).

I would view this as a blade that is probably good for someone above 1700 with fuller strokes who is trying out aralyte or zylon for the first time, and adapting from an all-wood blade. The blade will not give the user any advantage in terms of more power/ spin and hence penetration, but does keep the ball in control. Short stroke players will not like this blade; it really needs long loops to be worth using. The ideal user has high arc loops and uses footwork, placement and consistency to win.

I still prefer my BTY Jonyer Hinoki over this from many perspectives, but once I start sweating the Jonyer quickly gets mushy and loses all its beautiful crispness when dry. It has been overdue for a move from that blade to the newer materials better suited for the new game, and getting to understand the feel without suffering through a 180-degree change. I am hoping I can use this blade for that purpose and then perhaps experiment with the ZLC inner layer version.

Happy to answer any questions. And thanks again to NextLevel for getting this into my hands at an unreasonably good price.

Edited by smash_fan - 12/07/2017 at 3:59pm

Welcome here at last Carl.

Where is the like button?  :)  I want to hit it for Baal's comment and NL's.  

Edited by UpSideDownCarl - 12/08/2017 at 3:22pm

BH-Man wrote: Who is this Upside Down Joker busting hiz way into My Table Tennis acting like he knows forum members or the sport ???!!! Smash Fan we know from previous posts, but this Trouble Maker named Carl... another story. Approval from Baal and Next Level make his existence on the forum only barely permissible.  What the heck kinda phone he got and from where ???!!! Sounds like he is friends with that no good Der_Echte from the other forums... ban material...

LOL. True that.

USD Carl has no Doppelganger... neither do Baal and Next Level.

smash_fan, did you try ALC.s by any chance, so that you could compare the two?

NextLevel wrote: UpSideDownCarl wrote: Smash_Fan, I want to hear all the details of the adventure with NextLevel.  NextLevel, did you capture any of it on video?  :) Backhand Man, call out the goon squad.  :) Decided not to video tape as I didn't want to be accused of beating up on someone who hasn't played in a while. Little did I realize that I was not videotaping it for my own benefit ...

Not at all how it happened. NL being super modest about his game. Here’s what I recall: NL can attack out wide with tons of spin... both wings (I’m talking like BH-Man level) and with NL’s 6 foot wingspan those balls are flying. NL was ready to play. But I just wasn’t there with him and it was painfully obvious. So much so that NL being the gentleman he is, eased up to a level where we could at least get a few points going. Then he gifted me a couple games as a good host should do hehe

Edited by smash_fan - 12/10/2017 at 11:48pm

Yusuke Iwase of R&D said players of the Innerforce layer ALC reflected the desire for less bounce and more spin. They listened and here we have the ALC.S.