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How does booster work, exactly?

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    Posted: 11/30/2016 at 1:44pm
I've been using Falco Tempo Booster on H3 Neo for a few months. I'm pretty much a beginner, so I'm not sure I can notice a huge difference, but I started using it after noticing that the rubber on my friend's bat seemed better than mine - he had the same H3 Neo, but was boosted. The new rubber seems faster, and perhaps spinnier than unboosted (?).

Anyway, I'd appreciate an explanation of what effect boosting actually has on the rubber. And I'd especially like to know how it works. I've heard several conflicting explanations as to how it works. This seems to be one of those things that people hear from someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about, and then it gets parroted around and becomes "fact".

Also - why are you supposed to put glue on the sponge before boosting?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 1:59pm
To sum it up, a lot of the spin that is generated at our level is from the sponge, atleast for euro and Japanese rubbers, so when you add the booster it makes the sponge expand, making it springy and thereby increasing the spin and catapult, but also makes the sponge feel cushier.

You can actually add the booster to the sponge directly but it will absorb it too fast risking a lot of it reaching in to the topsheet, if the topsheet expands it will be mostly dislodging from the sponge ruining your rubber. If you are putting very thin layers of falco, you are OK to apply without glue layer.

Also falco tempo long doesn't have a great effect on hurricane, Chinese boosters work better on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:


Also falco tempo long doesn't have a great effect on hurricane, Chinese boosters work better on them.

Works fine for me. This pic below is from a few years ago. On Day 3, it was more like a very narrow pipe!

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Day 8 of FTL on H3 Prov 38 deg. First time doing this.

How long does it take for the dome to recede? I'm assuming that now's not the time to glue to blade?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 2:34pm
Doesn't it also stretch out the topsheet - since its stretching the sponge and the sponge is attached to the top sheet? And by doing so, would that make the top sheet spinnier? Is this the same as what a tensor rubber is?

Also - how, exactly does the booster expand the sponge? How does it work?

And what's the difference between booster and speed glue?

My coach says that booster puts little bubbles in the sponge that are filled with liquid and pop on contact, and that's where the speed comes from. Has anyone else heard that explanation?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 2:38pm
When I said doesn't work as well, I meant the improvement in speed is not very much, I had tried 5 layers of FTL on h3 provincial, however it did not feel as fast as the one treated with seamoon that my friend plays with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by dpt dpt wrote:

Doesn't it also stretch out the topsheet - since its stretching the sponge and the sponge is attached to the top sheet? And by doing so, would that make the top sheet spinnier? Is this the same as what a tensor rubber is?

Also - how, exactly does the booster expand the sponge? How does it work?

And what's the difference between booster and speed glue?

My coach says that booster puts little bubbles in the sponge that are filled with liquid and pop on contact, and that's where the speed comes from. Has anyone else heard that explanation?
Speed glue was a lot more powerful than booster.  With speed glue, I think there was a gas in the rubber that added to power.  This does not happen with booster and no, there are no tiny exploding bubbles.  Sounds to me like your coach was teasing you.

Since booster isn't dynamic like speed glue, my guess is that the effect is almost entirely from swelling the sponge, causing the top sheet to expand.

I haven't used booster in a tournament, but I've done some experimenting with it in club play.  I found that it can help to revive old sheets of Tenergy that had lost their oompf.  However, when I applied booster to new sheets of Tenergy, it became too bouncy and I did not see any improvement in spin.  

I also tried Chinese booster on sheets of H3.  It helped, although I still wasn't satisfied.  I'll try that one again some time.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 4:18pm
Since boosting is against the rules anyway, and speed glue is more effective, why does anyone boost? Why not speed glue? Is speed glueing just too much work?

I know speed glue can be tested for and booster can't, but assuming you won't be playing ittf events where they actually test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Since boosting is against the rules anyway, and speed glue is more effective, why does anyone boost? Why not speed glue? Is speed glueing just too much work?

I know speed glue can be tested for and booster can't, but assuming you won't be playing ittf events where they actually test.

You answered your own question. Speed glue also makes a distinct sound that experienced players can pick up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 4:27pm
Also, doesn't booster last MUCH longer?  I thought speed glue lasted a few days at most, whereas booster can last at least a month, maybe more.

Regarding the rules, some people (Falco included), say booster isn't illegal.  I think because it isn't applied to the topsheet, only the sponge. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

 
You answered your own question. Speed glue also makes a distinct sound that experienced players can pick up.
To be fair, boosting makes a pretty distinct sound too.  I was going to say the smell was what gives away speed glue.  My wife used to prohibit me from bringing my paddles into the house because of the smell and she claimed she could smell them even in the garage.

USATT does random racket testing at the US Open and Nationals, usually (but not always) for people fairly far advanced in the elimination brackets.  So it isn't just ITTF.

What I always wondered about was limonene.  I used to use that in place of speed glue because it gave 90% of the power (much better than boosting) without the dangerous fumes.  It's an extract from the rinds of oranges and other citrus fruits and is harmless.  It's used (when refined to food grade) to make orange flavored stuff like gum.  Unfortunately, i think it probably still fails the VOC test (I've never checked it).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 5:01pm
Anyway, back to how booster works...

Does anyone know ~how~ it expands the sponge? What exactly is going on?

And does everyone agree that you put glue on the sponge before applying booster in order to block the booster from penetrating too deeply into the sponge?

The last time I boosted a sheet, I removed the sheet to reglue it after boosting and gluing it to the blade. When I put more glue on the sheet, after the glue dried and I went to reglue the sheet, the sheet had expanded signifigantly more - I had to cut it again (!). So the glue and booster seem to have some kind of synergistic effect in expanding the sponge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 5:23pm


On a serious note, the mechanism behind the absorption is due to capillary action. As for the amount of expansion, it depends on the chemical bonds between the two substances.

Edited by zeio - 11/30/2016 at 5:42pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 5:36pm
Hmmm. Was that sarcasm?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 5:55pm
From Yasaka's patent for its discontinued booster, expansion is not the sole element to a good booster. The softening effect is also important in increasing the resilience of the rubber. From the list of chemicals, they are basically all plasticizers.

Edited by zeio - 11/30/2016 at 6:05pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

From Yasaka's patent for its discontinued booster...

Do you have the patent number for reference? Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:28pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:43pm
OIL IS MUCH A POISON. IT KILLS THE RUBBER.

Rubber scientists proved that oily compounds would always bring the sponge material degraded. Oil tends to soften rubber / sponge. After oil applications sponge sheet eventually gets non elactic, less bouncy..

You will be much unhappy to find your Tenergy power play gone away after a couple oil applications.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

   OIL IS MUCH A POISON. IT KILLS THE RUBBER.

Read the above patent my friend. And what do you think BTY puts on the sponge to make Tenergy bouncy?

Edited by Matt Pimple - 11/30/2016 at 6:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:46pm
The real reason behind the speed-glue ban! To make people go through them like toilet paper.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

  And what do you think BTY puts on the sponge to make Tenergy bouncy?

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Contrary to popular opinion, there has been no proof that Butterfly does factory tuning to the sponge in Tenergy and the observational data is that they do not.

Factory tuned sponges are usually pretty obvious to spot when taken out of the package. Also, they lose that tuning over a period of a couple of months (or quicker), regardless of the amount of play.  Both of these points do no apply to Tenergy.

In response to Igor, I will say that petroleum based oils typically cause degradation of rubber compounds (try applying oil to the rubber brake pads on your bicycle and see what happens).  However, I don't know if that applies to the oils used in boosting.

And I may be over-using the word degradation here.  If you have a rubber whose top sheet is losing it's grip (typically by a combination of wear and tear plus hardening from oxidation from old age), you can put vegetable oil on it to "rejuvenate" it.  The top sheet will regain lost grip and become pliable again.  It will also wear out even faster.

Earlier this year I recycled some of my old sheets of Tenergy.  These were sheets that had 200+ hours of play on them, so that the sponge was dead and the top sheets were worn.  I reglued them with booster and also rejuvenated the top sheet with oil. I found the sheets had become usable again and I was able to get an extra month of play out of them.  I wouldn't recommend this process for serious play, but if you're on a budget (Tenergy being expensive and all), then it might be a way to get more bang for your buck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:


We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Contrary to popular opinion, there has been no proof that Butterfly does factory tuning to the sponge in Tenergy and the observational data is that they do not.

About a year and a half ago, I put 2 brand new sheets of T05 2.1 on my blade. I left 1 of those 2 sheets open for 2 days before gluing onto blade. The 2nd sheet, I glued onto the blade immediately after removing the wrapping.

To me, there was a clear difference in performance, especially in the 1st 5 days or so. I'm not saying that it is booster that Asahi applies but there's certainly something there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 8:36pm
By the way, I'm getting ready to do an experiment. I am making a blade with 2 brand new sheets of H3 Neo Prov, one boosted and one not. I want to compare the rebound of each sheet, to balls served by my robot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jasonh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by dpt dpt wrote:

By the way, I'm getting ready to do an experiment. I am making a blade with 2 brand new sheets of H3 Neo Prov, one boosted and one not. I want to compare the rebound of each sheet, to balls served by my robot.

I heard that H3 Neo is factory boosted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 9:23pm
I don't think so. Where'd you hear that? People usually say that it's designed to be boosted. I'm not sure if that's true either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 9:52pm
The H3 Neo comes with a layer of gooey substance on the sponge, officially known as 打底层(base coat), said to increase the bounce, presumably tuned. Some people think it is simply a cash grab.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:


We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Contrary to popular opinion, there has been no proof that Butterfly does factory tuning to the sponge in Tenergy and the observational data is that they do not.

About a year and a half ago, I put 2 brand new sheets of T05 2.1 on my blade. I left 1 of those 2 sheets open for 2 days before gluing onto blade. The 2nd sheet, I glued onto the blade immediately after removing the wrapping.

To me, there was a clear difference in performance, especially in the 1st 5 days or so. I'm not saying that it is booster that Asahi applies but there's certainly something there.
Tenergy is very sensitive to oxidation.  It would be wise to keep Tenergy sealed at all times, except when playing.  For an already glued paddle, that means using protection sheets and placing it in a bag or case.

Tenergy is very sensitive in general.  It's playing characteristics can change a lot depending up how hot or cold it gets (such as when you leave your paddle in the car on a warm or cold day) and it is notoriously slippery in humid conditions.  At 90% humidity, my Tenergy is more slick than my friend's anti-rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2016 at 12:36pm
TENERGY IS FAMOUS FOR NOT BEING FACTORY TREATED.

ALL Tenergy sheets are well alike, without oily additived, whether for general market or for national players. Should Tenergy factory put some oil to the sponge, then the rubber gets a greater weigh some 95 grammes unpacked sheet.
It is not the case for Tenergy rubbers, all the rubbers keep within 82 -84 grammes, which is a good prove that rubber oil free.
Another strong prove is Mizutani and Boll state they did never get treated rubber from Buterfly factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2016 at 12:52pm
TENERGY IS FAMOUS FOR NOT BEING FACTORY TREATED.


ALL Tenergy sheets are well alike, without oily additived, whether for general market or for national players. Should Tenergy factory put some oil to the sponge, then the rubber gets a greater weigh some 95 grammes unpacked sheet.
It is not the case for Tenergy rubbers, all the rubbers keep within 82 -84 grammes, which is a good argument that rubber oil free.
Another strong proof is Mizutani's and Boll's many public statement they did never get treated rubber from Buterfly factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2016 at 1:07pm
I find it interesting that we complain that table tennis doesn't get the respect it deserves, while discussing how to cheat to win. 
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