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Desperate need for help with short pips |
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: 12/12/2016 at 4:34pm |
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Hello everyone :)
From quite some time im considering switching my BH rubber (Tenergy 05fx 2.1) to the short pips. My BH game is based on blocks, spinny backspin pushes and counter-counter smash game over the table with occassional short to the net game. I dont play that many topspin loops during matches; it isn't my way to finish the point. I look for a short pips who will be good in blocking (with some spin returning effect as well as a little of deception) hitting and counter attack over the table(also through opponent's topspin). It's important to me for them helping me a bit in returning tricky services. I've read many reviews and i picked Friendship 802-40 MAX and i guess more likely to match my description-Dr Neubauer Leopard 2.0. My main question is: will those short pips match well will my Timo Boll Spark ? Beside the matter with the blade , i will be happy to see some reviews or opinions on those two particular short pips rubbers and also some other propositions of rubbers that in Your opinion may suit my style. Thanks in advance :) Kamil
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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Skyline
Premier Member Joined: 07/01/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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There is only one answer to the question, try it. I also made the switch to short pips recently. I use Flarestorm 2 on a Primorac Carbon. I like this pip, it's good for blocking and flat hitting close to the table, and it has a little sunk/knuckle with the right stroke. Normally Boll Spark is more like a soft arylate blade that's suitable for mid distance topspin but I guess it might work for you. If it doesn't maybe you can try the Boll Spirit, it's slightly harder so it might be better for sp. Remember if you make the switch to pips, be prepared for a lack of catapult effect. You always have to use an active stroke and think about the blade angle (quick reaction/lazy blocks are a lot more difficult).
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100niTenis
Platinum Member Joined: 02/13/2014 Location: Online Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
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I am considering switch to short Pips too :-) Don't know where to start 📣
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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Hi,
Just buy one 802 40 and learn to enjoy playing with it. Its so cheap. And it last such a long time. penholderxxx
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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ronakvyas86
Super Member Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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You need spinny pips. Get 802-40 in max. It won't be easy at first so you'll have to be patient. It took me more than a couple of weeks. Initially I hated short pips and went back to inverted, now I just love them
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Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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Yes, TB Spark is like the old Keyshot which absorbs energy, and this is everything you don´t want when playing with short pips. TB Spirit would be better for sure, but in my opinion 7-ply blades are the best match with SP. And they have the advantage of being much cheaper (DHS PG7, PG9, Persson Powerplay, Xiom Extrem S...). As for the pips I like more those with soft sponge. Flarestorm 2 is too hard for me. The softest I tried were Rakza PO, Hexer Pips and now Spinpips Chop 2. I suggest the OP to start with thinner sponges like 1.8mm to get used with blocks and return of serves. Then if he needs more speed upgrade the thickness of sponge. It´s curious but I made the opposite way: started playing with max thickness and now I´m using a thinner sponge. |
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notgooord
Member Joined: 11/21/2016 Location: teri Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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80240 is the same as inverted.
Opponents wont feel the difference. I recommend dhs rubbers, 651 and 652. Cheap and deceptive. Personally I wouldn't go back to sp now. Edited by notgooord - 12/12/2016 at 8:36pm |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1527 |
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Background: I switched to BH SPs ~18 months ago after having played with inverted throughout my youth.
I would second the 802-40 recommendation given by other forum members. I found it easy to make this switch (in fact, I made it mid-tournament, fuelled by frustration). They are not deceptive, but good for hitting, blocking, and serve returns, and can even be used for occasional chopping. 1.8 mm soft sponge from zeropong. TSP Spectol or Spinlord Waran are also pretty easy to play with. A very deceptive and underutilized SP with soft topsheet is Xiom's Zava (Adidas Blaze Spin plays similarly). Also, I have found that short pips work best on blades with hard outer plies.
Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 12/12/2016 at 11:55pm |
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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First of all, thank you all for answers :)
So, is it totally pointless to even try Spark-short pips combination? I know that Spark absorbs a lot of incoming energy, and through latest months i mastered using it against my opponents. With good pips it should be nice blocking weapon, am i wrong? I dont really need to create very fast and powerful setup on BH. I just want more ease in serve returns and to counter opponents' shots across the table with more easy for me and opposite for them. Do you think that Dr Neubauer Leopard will be a miss ? Thanks :)!
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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ronakvyas86
Super Member Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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Don't know much about spark but blades with too much flex don't do well with pips (or at least they don't work for me). Solid feeling, somewhat stiff blades with hard outer-ply are great for pips. Stiga clipper, avalox p700, yasaka maxwood, yasaka goiabao 5 (I like this one most) are all great for learning pips and quite reasonably priced also
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Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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The problem is that im in the middle of season and i can't change my whole setup. Too much risk :/ Plus my Spark + Tenergy 05 on FH works too good to change it. Thats why i am asking for a pips that may play well on flex blade like Spark
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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Johnny Erasure
Platinum Member Joined: 07/08/2013 Location: România Status: Offline Points: 2698 |
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I play with Timo Boll ALC + Tenergy 05 on FH and TSP Super Spinpips 2.0 on BH. I played all the time with inverted and from about two months I play with short pips and I love it. ALC work great with T05 and short pips, has koto outer which it's harder. Also I have a friend which play with ALC and Joola Express Ultra 2.0 on BH and he said that it's the best short pips for him.
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Blade: JM ZLC
Rubbers: FH Dignics 09C BH Dignics 05 Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63937&KW=Johnny+Erasure&PID=764628&title=feedback-for-j |
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Do you think Friendship 802-1 would be nice with Timo boll spark ? As my first short pip rubber?
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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ronakvyas86
Super Member Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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802-1 will be a bad idea. I mean it's a pretty good deceptive pips but due to the low spin and throw you'll face lot of difficulty when driving the ball. Since you're coming from tenergy 05 you need spinny, high throw pips for a smooth transition. Even pips like Joola Express Ultra, Butterfly Raystorm, 802-40 (which have high throw amongst pips) will feel like having annoyingly low throw.
There's always a trade off between deception and spin when it comes to short pips. You just can't get both of these. The thing you should be concerned with when trying new equipment is to go for something that gives you the most control. It all boils down to control in the end. Without control, all the speed/spin/deception are just waste. |
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Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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I dont really plan on playing topspins with this pips. I'd rather block and counter drive opponent's attacks. What is Your opinion about Dr Neubauer Leopard 2.0 then ? It seems like nice blocking rubber that allows nice pushes due to its not the highest spin sensivity.
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1858 |
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Ok kammat777...listen up cause like the guy I asked for directions once in NJ said, "I'm only gonna tell you this once". I switched to short pips about 10 years ago on my FH. My FH was ok for looping, but not good enough against the 2200+ players, so I decided to give them a try. Raystorm 2.1 was the pips I tried. I hated them at first, but I told myself to play with them for 1 month then to decide if I should go back or not. My level went up from 2100 to 2200 because they simplified my game and made my FH more effective against loopers.
As Roank...said, it all comes down to control. Going to max thickness is a waste of time because you might as well stay with inverted since it won't be that much different. Start out with either 2.0 or 1.8. I started out with 2.0, but now play with 1.8. For FH I still needed something not quite so deceptive, but something that had good control. The BH will be a little different. Since you need something good for blocking, and want something that will make it a little harder on the loopers I would go with something like TSP's Spectol. TSP now has a new version called Spectol Red and my practice partner that is 1900 - 2000 plays great with them. It has good control, but has plenty of speed and still causes a little bit of a sinking ball against loops. Get it either in 1.8 or 2.0. They also have Spectol Blue that is probably just a little less spin as it's supposed to be a slightly harder sponge. I tried the 802-40 but I never really liked them as I just never found them to be really great at anything. I currently play with Victas 102 (premium version of TSP), but I may switch to the Spectol Red as they are excellent. This is the only pips you will need so don't waste any more time talking about them. Go out and buy a sheet right now. You might try the Blue version, but I'm not sure about it since I haven't tried it. I would get a sheet of it in 1.8. Enjoy and best of luck. P.S. - don't go to something like Leopard at first. The medium pips are harder to control and many of them don't last as long. Just go with Spectol Red or Blue. |
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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Chairman Meow
Super Member Joined: 10/04/2016 Location: Hell, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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SpinLord Waran would also work well.It blocks and drives through the ball well.
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-1 ply Cypress 11.5mm "The Castigator"
-H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg. -H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.1mm 37 deg |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5293 |
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very hard to play with. this rubber hard as rock and slow |
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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I've seen some reviews of Timo Boll Spark and Btf Challenger Attack combination. Would it be better than Spark - Dr neubauer Leopard combo that you aren't really recommending ?
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Actually Waran has a soft sponge and is quite fast! |
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malin87
Super Member Joined: 05/21/2013 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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If u come from inverted you will need an easy pimples rubber for you.I will recomend you spectol blue (with a litttle sinking effect) ot spectol red (much less sinking effect) or moristo sp( without sinking effect).I play all my life with pips and i have tried them all so i recomend you these choices.With these rubbers u can spin the first ball and hit or block any heavy top spin.I preffer the old spectol 21 cause the effect was bigger and that count for me..i dont need to stay in long rallies..regarding prices the japan site has the best like 23 euro each but in all other sites are at 40..
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Icecream AZX,T05,Spectol21
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Inkognito
Super Member Joined: 08/10/2015 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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I am using Rakza PO in max, I started with 2.0mm. Matter in fact if anyone need a black Rakza PO 2.0 in black I have one for 35€. It's spinny and kinda hard and easy to kill the ball with. Look at Mattias Karlsson when he plays
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3 BTY Jun Mizutani ST SZLC
FH/BH Butterfly Dignics 64 max Buy some Butterfly or Stiga equipment?!?! PM me!!! EJ since 1993 |
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kammat777
Member Joined: 03/29/2013 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Thank you for your's suggestions. I don't base my game on opening loops or heavy topspins if it comes to my BH side. That's the reason why i want to try short pip. I've noticed that even though i can pull not the worst spinny BH topspin, it isn't as useful as block, pushes and smashing, especially during matches. To conclude, I don't want spinny pips because im quite sure that it will overally be worse than my regular play with Tenergy05fx ( blocks, pushes and drive game on the table). I train 6 days a week so I guess i can adjust to less grippy pips quite fast. I seek short pip that is designed to block, drive, smash and occasionally pull out some rotation (push or gentle topspin) just to distract the opponent. My main problem is again, my blade that isn't the best one for all the types of pips ( I can't pair flexi and soft Timo boll spark with ultra soft or soft short pips like some of mentioned above).
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Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark
FH : Tenergy 05 2.1 BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 |
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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I like 802 on Clipper. This should play the way you want.
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Skyline
Premier Member Joined: 07/01/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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What I dislike about the Flarestorm 2 is that it's not very bouncy. Are these softer sponged pips more bouncy? I'm looking for a pip that acts more similar to inverted catapult wise.
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1858 |
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that's why you want something like TSP Spectol on the BH. It's made for blocking, not spinning. I watched a 2600+ Chinese woman who was visiting in the area take down a bunch of 2500 loopers with Spectol on her BH. Her blocks were devastating. They almost always looped her blocks into the net. My 2200+ practice partner used to use Spectol on his BH and his blocks were deadly. If you want to create a little more trouble for your opponents then use 1.8 instead of 2.0. Victas 101 is also like a premium version of Spectol that my friend has used very successfully. So either get a sheet of Spectol, Victas 101, of the new Spectol Blue as it's harder than the Red version and probably not as much spin.
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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tuco
Gold Member Joined: 06/11/2007 Location: ValleyOfTheSun Status: Offline Points: 1432 |
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Well, my old friend, are you trying to switch to SP from LP? Or switch to SP from inverted? Switching from inverted is a totally different animal. it not only changes your strokes but completely changes your mindset and approach to the game. it was a painful and unsuccessful experiment for me. anyhoooo, i got tons of once used SP's lying around. If you are interested, pm me. |
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The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5293 |
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then we have different feel. I had it on Infinity and it was almost unplayable for me. I have it for sale if somebody wants it |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Could be! The Waran actually uses a hard topsheet combined with a soft sponge which is tuned. Is it possible that you might have tried the Waran II? It uses the same topsheet but a harder sponge and actually comes with the same package and just a sticker on it. The sponge colrs are different; the Waran II has a pink sponge and is fast than regular Waran. |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5293 |
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no. I have regular Waran as far as I remember ... Edited by piligrim - 12/14/2016 at 12:43pm |
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