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Desperate need for help with short pips

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kammat777 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/12/2016 at 4:34pm
Hello everyone :)
From quite some time im considering switching my BH rubber (Tenergy 05fx 2.1) to the short pips. My BH game is based on blocks, spinny backspin pushes and counter-counter smash game over the table with occassional short to the net game. I dont play that many topspin loops during matches; it isn't my way to finish the point. I look for a short pips who will be good in blocking (with some spin returning effect as well as a little of deception) hitting and counter attack over the table(also through opponent's topspin). It's important to me for them helping me a bit in returning tricky services. I've read many reviews and i picked Friendship 802-40 MAX and i guess more likely to match my description-Dr Neubauer Leopard 2.0. My main question is: will those short pips match well will my Timo Boll Spark ? Beside the matter with the blade , i will be happy to see some reviews or opinions on those two particular short pips rubbers and also some other propositions of rubbers that in Your opinion may suit my style.
Thanks in advance :)
Kamil
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 6:53pm
There is only one answer to the question, try it. I also made the switch to short pips recently. I use Flarestorm 2 on a Primorac Carbon. I like this pip, it's good for blocking and flat hitting close to the table, and it has a little sunk/knuckle with the right stroke. Normally Boll Spark is more like a soft arylate blade that's suitable for mid distance topspin but I guess it might work for you. If it doesn't maybe you can try the Boll Spirit, it's slightly harder so it might be better for sp.  Remember if you make the switch to pips, be prepared for a lack of catapult effect. You always have to use an active stroke and think about the blade angle (quick reaction/lazy blocks are a lot more difficult).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 100niTenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 6:56pm
I am considering switch to short Pips too :-) Don't know where to start 📣
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 7:18pm
Hi,

Just buy one 802 40 and learn to enjoy playing with it. Its so cheap. And it last such a long time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronakvyas86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 8:09pm
You need spinny pips. Get 802-40 in max. It won't be easy at first so you'll have to be patient. It took me more than a couple of weeks. Initially I hated short pips and went back to inverted, now I just love them
1. Ovtcharov Carbospeed CPEN, Baracuda, Keiler

2. Goiabao 5 CPEN, Baracuda, Hexer Pips

3. YEO CPEN, Agrit Speed, 802-40

4. JRE CPEN, MX-P, Aurus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

There is only one answer to the question, try it. I also made the switch to short pips recently. I use Flarestorm 2 on a Primorac Carbon. I like this pip, it's good for blocking and flat hitting close to the table, and it has a little sunk/knuckle with the right stroke. Normally Boll Spark is more like a soft arylate blade that's suitable for mid distance topspin but I guess it might work for you. If it doesn't maybe you can try the Boll Spirit, it's slightly harder so it might be better for sp.

Yes, TB Spark is like the old Keyshot which absorbs energy, and this is everything you don´t want when playing with short pips. TB Spirit would be better for sure, but in my opinion 7-ply blades are the best match with SP. And they have the advantage of being much cheaper (DHS PG7, PG9, Persson Powerplay, Xiom Extrem S...).
As for the pips I like more those with soft sponge. Flarestorm 2 is too hard for me. The softest I tried were Rakza PO, Hexer Pips and now Spinpips Chop 2.
I suggest the OP to start with thinner sponges like 1.8mm to get used with blocks and return of serves. Then if he needs more speed upgrade the thickness of sponge. It´s curious but I made the opposite way: started playing with max thickness and now I´m using a thinner sponge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notgooord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 8:34pm
80240 is the same as inverted.
Opponents wont feel the difference.
I recommend dhs rubbers, 651 and 652.
Cheap and deceptive.

Personally I wouldn't go back to sp now.

Edited by notgooord - 12/12/2016 at 8:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2016 at 9:47pm
Background: I switched to BH SPs ~18 months ago after having played with inverted throughout my youth. 

I would second the 802-40 recommendation given by other forum members. I found it easy to make this switch (in fact, I made it mid-tournament, fuelled by frustration). They are not deceptive, but good for hitting, blocking, and serve returns, and can even be used for occasional chopping. 1.8 mm soft sponge from zeropong. TSP Spectol or Spinlord Waran are also pretty easy to play with. A very deceptive and underutilized SP with soft topsheet is Xiom's Zava (Adidas Blaze Spin plays similarly).   

Also, I have found that short pips work best on blades with hard outer plies.


Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 12/12/2016 at 11:55pm
Adidas Challenge Force, MX-S (FH), TSP Spectol (BH).

Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kammat777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 1:46am
First of all, thank you all for answers :)
So, is it totally pointless to even try Spark-short pips combination? I know that Spark absorbs a lot of incoming energy, and through latest months i mastered using it against my opponents. With good pips it should be nice blocking weapon, am i wrong? I dont really need to create very fast and powerful setup on BH. I just want more ease in serve returns and to counter opponents' shots across the table with more easy for me and opposite for them. Do you think that Dr Neubauer Leopard will be a miss ?
Thanks :)!
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronakvyas86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 2:14am
Don't know much about spark but blades with too much flex don't do well with pips (or at least they don't work for me). Solid feeling, somewhat stiff blades with hard outer-ply are great for pips. Stiga clipper, avalox p700, yasaka maxwood, yasaka goiabao 5 (I like this one most) are all great for learning pips and quite reasonably priced also
1. Ovtcharov Carbospeed CPEN, Baracuda, Keiler

2. Goiabao 5 CPEN, Baracuda, Hexer Pips

3. YEO CPEN, Agrit Speed, 802-40

4. JRE CPEN, MX-P, Aurus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kammat777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 2:44am
The problem is that im in the middle of season and i can't change my whole setup. Too much risk :/ Plus my Spark + Tenergy 05 on FH works too good to change it. Thats why i am asking for a pips that may play well on flex blade like Spark 
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Erasure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 3:51am
I play with Timo Boll ALC + Tenergy 05 on FH and TSP Super Spinpips 2.0 on BH. I played all the time with inverted and from about two months I play with short pips and I love it. ALC work great with T05 and short pips, has koto outer which it's harder. Also I have a friend which play with ALC and Joola Express Ultra 2.0 on BH and he said that it's the best short pips for him.
Blade: Timo Boll ALC
Rubbers: FH Tenergy 05
        BH TSP Superspin Pips
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63937&title=feedback-for-johnny-erasure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kammat777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 12:31pm
Do you think Friendship 802-1 would be nice with Timo boll spark ? As my first short pip rubber?
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronakvyas86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 1:19pm
802-1 will be a bad idea. I mean it's a pretty good deceptive pips but due to the low spin and throw you'll face lot of difficulty when driving the ball. Since you're coming from tenergy 05 you need spinny, high throw pips for a smooth transition. Even pips like Joola Express Ultra, Butterfly Raystorm, 802-40 (which have high throw amongst pips) will feel like having annoyingly low throw.

There's always a trade off between deception and spin when it comes to short pips. You just can't get both of these. The thing you should be concerned with when trying new equipment is to go for something that gives you the most control. It all boils down to control in the end. Without control, all the speed/spin/deception are just waste.
1. Ovtcharov Carbospeed CPEN, Baracuda, Keiler

2. Goiabao 5 CPEN, Baracuda, Hexer Pips

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kammat777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 1:26pm
I dont really plan on playing topspins with this pips. I'd rather block and counter drive opponent's attacks. What is Your opinion about Dr Neubauer Leopard 2.0 then ? It seems like nice blocking rubber that allows nice pushes due to its not the highest spin sensivity.
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 3:20pm
Ok kammat777...listen up cause like the guy I asked for directions once in NJ said, "I'm only gonna tell you this once". I switched to short pips about 10 years ago on my FH. My FH was ok for looping, but not good enough against the 2200+ players, so I decided to give them a try. Raystorm 2.1 was the pips I tried. I hated them at first, but I told myself to play with them for 1 month then to decide if I should go back or not. My level went up from 2100 to 2200 because they simplified my game and made my FH more effective against loopers.
As Roank...said, it all comes down to control. Going to max thickness is a waste of time because you might as well stay with inverted since it won't be that much different. Start out with either 2.0 or 1.8. I started out with 2.0, but now play with 1.8. For FH I still needed something not quite so deceptive, but something that had good control. The BH will be a little different. Since you need something good for blocking, and want something that will make it a little harder on the loopers I would go with something like TSP's Spectol. TSP now has a new version called Spectol Red and my practice partner that is 1900 - 2000 plays great with them. It has good control, but has plenty of speed and still causes a little bit of a sinking ball against loops. Get it either in 1.8 or 2.0. They also have Spectol Blue that is probably just a little less spin as it's supposed to be a slightly harder sponge. I tried the 802-40 but I never really liked them as I just never found them to be really great at anything. I currently play with Victas 102 (premium version of TSP), but I may switch to the Spectol Red as they are excellent. This is the only pips you will need so don't waste any more time talking about them. Go out and buy a sheet right now. You might try the Blue version, but I'm not sure about it since I haven't tried it. I would get a sheet of it in 1.8. Enjoy and best of luck.
P.S. - don't go to something like Leopard at first. The medium pips are harder to control and many of them don't last as long. Just go with Spectol Red or Blue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 3:33pm
SpinLord Waran would also work well.It blocks and drives through the ball well.
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1: BBC 1 ply Cypress 10mm "The Castigator"-H3 Nat. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg.-Rasant PowerGrip Max
2: Butterfly Perdir-Yasaka Rising Dragon Max-Xiom Sigma II Europe Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Chairman Meow Chairman Meow wrote:

SpinLord Waran would also work well.It blocks and drives through the ball well.


very hard to play with. this rubber hard as rock and slow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kammat777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 3:41pm
I've seen some reviews of Timo Boll Spark and Btf Challenger Attack combination. Would it be better than Spark - Dr neubauer Leopard combo that you aren't really recommending ?
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by Chairman Meow Chairman Meow wrote:

SpinLord Waran would also work well.It blocks and drives through the ball well.


very hard to play with. this rubber hard as rock and slow

Actually Waran has a soft sponge and is quite fast!
Dr. N Matador ST; Nittaku DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.8

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malin87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 5:44pm
If u come from inverted you will need an easy pimples rubber for you.I will recomend you spectol blue (with a litttle sinking effect) ot spectol red (much less sinking effect) or moristo sp( without sinking effect).I play all my life with pips and i have tried them all so i recomend you these choices.With these rubbers u can spin the first ball and hit or block any heavy top spin.I preffer the old spectol 21 cause the effect was bigger and that count for me..i dont need to stay in long rallies..regarding prices the japan site has the best like 23 euro each but in all other sites are at 40..
Tibhar stratus carbon,T05,Spectol21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkognito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 5:55pm
I am using Rakza PO in max, I started with 2.0mm. Matter in fact if anyone need a black Rakza PO 2.0 in black I have one for 35€. It's spinny and kinda hard and easy to kill the ball with. Look at Mattias Karlsson when he plays
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kammat777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 6:05pm
Thank you for your's suggestions. I don't base my game on opening loops or heavy topspins if it comes to my BH side. That's the reason why i want to try short pip. I've noticed that even though i can pull not the worst spinny BH topspin, it isn't as useful as block, pushes and smashing, especially during matches. To conclude, I don't want spinny pips because im quite sure that it will overally be worse than my regular play with Tenergy05fx ( blocks, pushes and drive game on the table). I train 6 days a week so I guess i can adjust to less grippy pips quite fast. I seek short pip that is designed to block, drive, smash and occasionally pull out some rotation (push or gentle topspin) just to distract the opponent. My main problem is again, my blade that isn't the best one for all the types of pips ( I can't pair flexi and soft Timo boll spark with ultra soft or soft short pips like some of mentioned above).
Blade : Butterfly Timo Boll Spark



FH : Tenergy 05 2.1

BH : Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2016 at 9:42pm
I like 802 on Clipper. This should play the way you want.
(1) Stiga Cipper Wood (ST, 92 g) with RITC 802 (red, 2.0 mm) on FH and 0.5mm Curl P1R on BH (2) Butterfly Andrzej Grubba (ST, 84 g) with H3Neo Comm (red) on FH and 0.5mm Curl P1R on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2016 at 9:10am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

There is only one answer to the question, try it. I also made the switch to short pips recently. I use Flarestorm 2 on a Primorac Carbon. I like this pip, it's good for blocking and flat hitting close to the table, and it has a little sunk/knuckle with the right stroke. Normally Boll Spark is more like a soft arylate blade that's suitable for mid distance topspin but I guess it might work for you. If it doesn't maybe you can try the Boll Spirit, it's slightly harder so it might be better for sp.

Yes, TB Spark is like the old Keyshot which absorbs energy, and this is everything you don´t want when playing with short pips. TB Spirit would be better for sure, but in my opinion 7-ply blades are the best match with SP. And they have the advantage of being much cheaper (DHS PG7, PG9, Persson Powerplay, Xiom Extrem S...).
As for the pips I like more those with soft sponge. Flarestorm 2 is too hard for me. The softest I tried were Rakza PO, Hexer Pips and now Spinpips Chop 2.
I suggest the OP to start with thinner sponges like 1.8mm to get used with blocks and return of serves. Then if he needs more speed upgrade the thickness of sponge. It´s curious but I made the opposite way: started playing with max thickness and now I´m using a thinner sponge.

What I dislike about the Flarestorm 2 is that it's not very bouncy. Are these softer sponged pips more bouncy? I'm looking for a pip that acts more similar to inverted catapult wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2016 at 11:15am
that's why you want something like TSP Spectol on the BH. It's made for blocking, not spinning. I watched a 2600+ Chinese woman who was visiting in the area take down a bunch of 2500 loopers with Spectol on her BH. Her blocks were devastating. They almost always looped her blocks into the net. My 2200+ practice partner used to use Spectol on his BH and his blocks were deadly. If you want to create a little more trouble for your opponents then use 1.8 instead of 2.0. Victas 101 is also like a premium version of Spectol that my friend has used very successfully. So either get a sheet of Spectol, Victas 101, of the new Spectol Blue as it's harder than the Red version and probably not as much spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tuco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2016 at 11:51am
Originally posted by 100niTenis 100niTenis wrote:

I am considering switch to short Pips too :-) Don't know where to start 📣

Well, my old friend, are you trying to switch to SP from LP?  Or switch to SP from inverted?  Switching from inverted is a totally different animal.  it not only changes your strokes but completely changes your mindset and approach to the game.  it was a painful and unsuccessful experiment for me.

anyhoooo, i got tons of once used SP's lying around.  If you are interested, pm me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2016 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by Chairman Meow Chairman Meow wrote:

SpinLord Waran would also work well.It blocks and drives through the ball well.


very hard to play with. this rubber hard as rock and slow

Actually Waran has a soft sponge and is quite fast!



then we have different feel. I had it on Infinity and it was almost unplayable for me. I have it for sale if somebody wants it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2016 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by Chairman Meow Chairman Meow wrote:

SpinLord Waran would also work well.It blocks and drives through the ball well.


very hard to play with. this rubber hard as rock and slow

Actually Waran has a soft sponge and is quite fast!



then we have different feel. I had it on Infinity and it was almost unplayable for me. I have it for sale if somebody wants it

Could be! The Waran actually uses a hard topsheet combined with a soft sponge which is tuned. Is it possible that you might have tried the Waran II? It uses the same topsheet but a harder sponge and actually comes with the same package and just a sticker on it. The sponge colrs are different; the Waran II has a pink sponge and is fast than regular Waran.
Dr. N Matador ST; Nittaku DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.8

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2016 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Is it possible that you might have tried the Waran II? It uses the same topsheet but a harder sponge and actually comes with the same package and just a sticker on it. The sponge colrs are different; the Waran II has a pink sponge and is fast than regular Waran.


no. I have regular Waran as far as I remember ...

Edited by piligrim - 12/14/2016 at 12:43pm
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