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opinari View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/27/2016 at 5:22pm
Have to admit I thought this was a joke at first, but Donic Japan has apparently come out with a natural "booster".

Introducing, the Rubber Warmer, which apparently brings your paddle up to 45 degrees celsius (115 degrees fahrenheit) :D
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ANOTHER MONEY SUCKER ..

Quiet useless product to fool out money from people.. Money waster.   It reminds closely of the Btf pressure box, yet another gadget of no real effectiveness.

Again, does the Rubber Heater comply with the Rules? It does not, I believe.

Rule quotation 3.2.4.2:
     --Rubber shall be used
       without any treatment ...

Actually, this Japanese DONIC company does urge people to use illegal device. What a shame.

Edited by igorponger - 12/27/2016 at 8:12pm
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JTTA did experiments in the 80s which showed that higher temperatures did have a positive effect on rubber performance.

Edited by zeio - 12/27/2016 at 7:13pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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LOW HEAT CAPACITY OF THE RUBBER WILL GIVE YOU TROUBLES A LOT.

Rubber is a material with a low heat capacity, it is easy to heat up and easy to dissipate the accumulated heat as well.    

As the rubber temperature decreases so easy in open air, rubber performance would change dramatically as soon as within a few minutes, to give you much troubles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity
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This is also why the bounce test is doomed to fail. Over 8cm of difference there. Those who boost will bring fridges with them so they can pass the test.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

This is also why the bounce test is doomed to fail. Over 8cm of difference there. Those who boost will bring fridges with them so they can pass the test.

Not if testing procedure includes a step of the paddle spending some quality time inside this warmer thingie.

Wink
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I like it. Where do I get one.

I disagree with Iponger on almost every point.  I think this is both practical and legal.

Rubber that gets too cold loses its proper elasticity and therefore does not perform according to manufacturer specs (as measured by ITTF testing).  So warming it up would actually make the rubber more legal, not less.  Unless you think that ITTF does its measurements in icy conditions?

Speaking personally, my paddle sits in the car all day before I play, and is quite cold and stiff for an evening at the club (wintertime, obviously).  I do all the usual things like under the arm, etc., but a good rubber warmer would be so much better.

So where do I get it?
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Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

So where do I get it?

tt-japan had a very limited initial batch, all gone now.  Popular.  Edit - just checked, and they list stock coming in on 16th Jan.

Yu's blog mentions that the next re-stock is expected mid-February, but some Donic booths at larger TT events in Japan may have some left.


Edited by AndySmith - 12/28/2016 at 4:21am
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Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

LOW HEAT CAPACITY OF THE RUBBER WILL GIVE YOU TROUBLES A LOT.

Rubber is a material with a low heat capacity, it is easy to heat up and easy to dissipate the accumulated heat as well.    

As the rubber temperature decreases so easy in open air, rubber performance would change dramatically as soon as within a few minutes, to give you much troubles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity


Well, this implies that we would start a match with more spinier rubbers if this bat/ rubber heater was used and the playing hall or room was colder...

Humm... I have seen a top player put his bat on a radiator before he started playing...

I'm sure Donic would have consulted some pros (maybe pros requested it) before they went to mass production...

The science makes some sense and may even be more relevant to Donic liquid filled sponges...
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how about your racket sandwiched between hot water bottles?
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Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

hookshot mentioned hand warmers there: 


I think that is a cheap solution: put a couple in a closed racket case; done (maybe some cloth + sticky rubber protector between the rubber and the hand warmer?).

Of course if the Donic item is bought once and lasts years it might be cheaper in the long run depending how efficient it is and how fast it delivers the expected result.

Hand warmers aren't the right size.  You want something that will warm the entire rubber evenly.  I was thinking about a heating pad that my wife sometimes uses for her back.  That would warm a rubber in an even, controlled way (not too much heat), but it requires a plug-in.

I thought Donic was European? Some how come this rubber warmer isn't being sold from the European web sites?
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Racket testing will put paid to all this.
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Racket testing will put paid to all this.
I don't understand why racket testing would be an issue?  Warming won't introduce VOCs or change rubber thickness (but tested for currently).  If ITTF eventually develops a bounce test, I don't see this as being a problem for that either.
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Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The bounce test idea is a joke. I don't buy it. The implementation is an unmanageable nightmare and won't happen; if it does it will be possibly the last humiliation ittf would inflict to itself.
Be careful what you call a joke.  You never know what will become reality.  Just look at our last election.

Anyway, I actually like the idea of a bounce test.  The only change that I really hate with a passion is the plastic ball. I really believe that "dumbed down" the sport by making it easier for people with low skill levels.
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All the money and time wasted on this stupid test could've been put to better use.

http://www.old.ittf.com/museum/archivesnewproto/EC/2015.Sep.EC%20%20MinutesVancouver.pdf
Quote 12. Equipment
12.1 Bounce test project update
 The Equipment Committee submitted a detailed report to the EC on
the experimentation on bounce tests with ISR in Singapore. All
work was coordinated with the proposer, the Japan TTA.
 The report offered two options for decision: Option1 – program plan
to continue the project; Option2 – to terminate the project.
However the conclusion of the project summary was to discontinue,
because it will not serve its purpose to create an even playing field.
Athletes Commission is also on the opinion that the bounce test
experiment should be terminated as it would not prevent cheating,
but on contrary. VOC disappeared, so there is no more health
reason, cheating by boosting has to be sanctioned, applying
suspension, and not only for players but also for manufacturers.
 Athletes Commission discussed that players would be ready to
remove their rubbers but only after the player is out of the
competition.
16-EC-09-2015
The Executive Committee decided to terminate the bounce test experimental
project and at the same time asked the CEO to put on the EC task list to find a
solution for fair and equal playing environment for athletes.
 Japan TTA wishes to propose in future to revisit the issue.


Edited by zeio - 12/28/2016 at 5:35pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Racket testing will put paid to all this.
would a player present a warmed up bat to the tester? I would say no
would the rubber still be warmed up at the end of a game where a tester may then receive the bat?, no

mind you a umpire looking at the bat before the game starts could feel the rubber has been warmed up and then they could do something then I guess, delay the game and report the player?
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Dug up the '89 study.

Sriver, PF4, Spectol and PF4-651 were put to the test at 0, 20 and 40 °C, at 3-5, 8-10, 14-17 m/s.

Of all the rubbers, Sriver saw the most gain.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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in many forms of auto racing, tire temperature is a science. too cold and there is no grip, too hot and the rubber breaks down quickly and also produces less grip.

i often wondered why we dont heat up our rubbers in tt as that SHOULD increase traction, which should increase spin.
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Probably this adds another uncontrolled variable for a player as the rubber will cool cown during tbe course of a match.

Effect probably depends a lot on sponge and whether or not it is factory boosted, pore size, etc.
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Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Probably this adds another uncontrolled variable for a player as the rubber will cool cown during tbe course of a match.

Effect probably depends a lot on sponge and whether or not it is factory boosted, pore size, etc.



You tell whole truth, other people omissed to see. According The physics of polymerics Rubber Temperature would drop in a few minutes, thereafter it gets cold and stiff in the mid of a match, no later than by the end of the first set. YOU will have a lot of troubles having to readjust your play during a match, a lot of troubles.
   After being heat up, rubber material can only keep warmed within a few minutes in open air,
   
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Rubber can retain heat better than one may think.

Like wood, it takes a long time to heat up but also retains the heat much better than many other solids.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Probably this adds another uncontrolled variable for a player as the rubber will cool cown during tbe course of a match.

Effect probably depends a lot on sponge and whether or not it is factory boosted, pore size, etc.



You tell whole truth, other people omissed to see. According The physics of polymerics Rubber Temperature would drop in a few minutes, thereafter it gets cold and stiff in the mid of a match, no later than by the end of the first set. YOU will have a lot of troubles having to readjust your play during a match, a lot of troubles.
   After being heat up, rubber material can only keep warmed within a few minutes in open air,
   
This might be true if you're really heating the rubber, but if you just want it a little warm (like it would be in warm weather anyway), that would seem to be stable unless the ambient air is really frigid.
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From the donic charts, once heated the rubber takes roughly 30 minutes to drop back to ambient temperature, whether it be 10 or 25 °C. The starting temp also doesn't matter. 30 minutes is enough time for an amateur 5-gamer.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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I am going to try microwaving my speedglue just before applyingSmile

That should really give my rubber a real jumpstart.

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Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

From the donic charts, once heated the rubber takes roughly 30 minutes to drop back to ambient temperature, whether it be 10 or 25 °C. The starting temp also doesn't matter. 30 minutes is enough time for an amateur 5-gamer.


But performance is gradually changing that entire period. Temperature is changing steadily, not as a step.
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Yup, it'd be a disaster if it changes as a step function.

All in all, another great objective reason for EJs alike to blame the equipment when losing.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Racket testing will put paid to all this.
would a player present a warmed up bat to the tester? I would say no
would the rubber still be warmed up at the end of a game where a tester may then receive the bat?, no

mind you a umpire looking at the bat before the game starts could feel the rubber has been warmed up and then they could do something then I guess, delay the game and report the player?

$20 infrared thermometer will quickly become standard in the umpire's toolkit.

The ITTF need only specify that a racket and rubber must be within some range of the ambient room temperature.  Also, keep in mind that for matches where racket inspection is done prior to the match, the rackets are held by the umpires after they are checked and validated.  So it is very likely that the rackets would cool down prior to the match anyway.

I agree that this device could be useful for amateurs who may have to store their rackets in cold weather.  I know I move my racket bag from the trunk to the front seat during the winter as I head toward the club.  I want my hardbat rubbers to be room temperature.  
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(Jay)  I want my hardbat rubbers to be room temperature. 

Posidefinitely, Jay.  Hardbat is cool enough as it is.  No need to have your hardbat rubbers to be less than room temperature.

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A rubber warmer?  HolyCensored!  Is Donic essing the tt community or what?  Next thing you know they'll be opening up a whole buncha day care centers just to keep your rubber nice and cozy between tournaments.
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LOOKING FOR PORTABLE HAIR DRYER.

I need not this strange thing of rubber heater. useless invention.   
Instead, I would better like to get some small-sized portable hair dryer ,wireless device working with a battery.
It is strongly needed for instant mending of the damaged racket, if the rubber covering happens to get unstuck saddenly, and there is no electrical wall plugins available near about to switch in.
I am still in search for such a device. Portable wireless hair dryer.
Could anyone help, steer me to the correct product.

Thanks.   
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