Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Play against tossless player
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Play against tossless player

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1449
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Play against tossless player
    Posted: 01/03/2017 at 8:43pm
Hey,
It is tossless player, not topless player, so don't censor my post.Wink

I find that I have more and more problems playing against players who do not toss ball at all when serving. After a couple of points, I start to get frustrated. I am building a habit to watch the ball when returning serves, but that is impossible when playing against tossless players. 

Sometimes, I avoid playing against these players. But almost every single chinese penhold player is tossless and they are everywhere. So it is almost impossible to avoid playing with them. 

Any better solution to this except advising me to be tossless as well? I just feel it is a waste of time to play against these players, winning or losing is less important.

I try to not bend my body that much and receive a bit late. But these players always serve fast in a hurry.


Edited by kindof99 - 01/03/2017 at 8:48pm
Back to Top
Rich215 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2017 at 9:13pm
Couple of very easy solutions.   You will either play with them or you wont first off......

If you play with them and they obviously do not care about the rules or to change their serves.  So just tell them that their serves are clearly illegal by current rules...then when they protest this or give some other reason for not changing.....you now have two choices.

1. Do not play with them because they do not care or are not capable of making a legal serve.  You will probably just be wasting your breath with 90% of these players but might possibly interest someone in learning or playing much closer to current service rules......YMMV

2. Play with them after telling them their serves are not legal but you are ok with it....or if you will allow yourself to play without also serving properly......just serve the ball directly off your fingertips press spinning it off your racket.   haaaa    

At this point the other player will tell you your serves are not even good at all.......and they will be upset.....you simply just say.....now you know what it is like to play against your service!   haaa 

Or......if they do not say anything........id be surprised.  

Either way.....bring a rule book/printout with you before attempting.  This way you have something to stand on for your actions.  

Good luck. 



Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 3991
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2017 at 10:17pm
Something to take from the master.

Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
mts388 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/21/2014
Location: Sonora CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1133
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2017 at 10:24pm
I don't think there is anything you can do.  They know their serves are clearly illegal, but don't care.  If I had other players to play I would play the legal servers.

Plan B would be to play them and if they win a point, call the score wrong in your favor.  If they complain about your cheating, tell them you thought cheating was ok with them since they also do it. 

Plan C would be to do a high toss serve and smash it on their side of the table.  Again if they say that's against the rules, tell them you didn't think serving rules were being enforced. 

In the end they will say you're a jerk for not letting them cheat.


Back to Top
Johnny2WL View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 12/08/2016
Location: Hong Kong/USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny2WL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2017 at 10:38pm
I feel your pain. This is exactly my playing experience in the mainland, with the exception of my coach and some younger University players who actually toss.

I just swing away and try to keep the ball on the table , to put pressure and avoid the dreaded pop up. "Adapt and overcome", like they say in the USMC!
Back to Top
pgpg View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 555
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2017 at 10:49pm
You could also decide just to play them and treat it as a training exercise or purely social play. If I were to guess, they are most likely from an older generation, so changing their habits will be hard if not impossible. 

So, you can still get something out of playing them Wink - if given a choice of playing someone like that or not playing at all, I would pick the former. 

Now - if you run into no-t**ser in league/tournament play - that's another matter.
USATT: 1758
Baracuda - Defplay - Dornenglanz OX
Back to Top
mts388 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/21/2014
Location: Sonora CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1133
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 12:51am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

You could also decide just to play them and treat it as a training exercise or purely social play. If I were to guess, they are most likely from an older generation, so changing their habits will be hard if not impossible. 

So, you can still get something out of playing them Wink - if given a choice of playing someone like that or not playing at all, I would pick the former. 

Now - if you run into no-t**ser in league/tournament play - that's another matter.


No t**sers can be helpful training partners.  They force you to learn how to read the bounce and sound at contact.
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1449
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 12:02pm
I remember that I did not have problems playing these players when I pushed to return their serves. The problem arose when I tried to flip or loop back. The timing and pace are totally ruined with these tossless serves. Maybe I should  just continue to push for return.
Back to Top
BMonkey View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/28/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Hey,
Any better solution to this except advising me to be tossless as well? I just feel it is a waste of time to play against these players, winning or losing is less important.

I try to not bend my body that much and receive a bit late. But these players always serve fast in a hurry.
Not sure how not tossing your serve would help you to receive theirs...

I find that service actions with no toss employed have less spin potential than the same service action used with a normal or high toss. I try to adjust by trying to push for speed and to the white line, rather than trying to make a really spinny push. For old school penholders, pushing deep to the backhand (preferably going outside the corner) seems to annoy them. For long serves, if it pops up I try to drive it, if it stays low, I wait until it's below table height then try to brush loop.
Back to Top
suds79 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/20/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 888
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 2:46pm
I don't get the big deal. you just call let and ask them to start tossing the ball claiming it's illegal.

My partner and I did that vs two other people at club just the other day. you can do it without being confrontational. Just point out to them that's clearly illegal. Everybody would be able to spin the ball up more if they were able to use their hand to grip the ball for extra spin. It's blatantly against the rules.

If for some reason one where not to comply, I suppose I would then hide my serves like nobody's business since we're throwing out the rules here. We're talking about full on arm covering ball pops out from just my armpit where you simply cannot see the spin from the paddle... :p 


Edited by suds79 - 01/04/2017 at 2:48pm
Lefty Penholder.
Check out my blog at
chroniclesofgossima.blogspot.com
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1449
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 3:06pm
I think the general approach is to use placement and to receive it with gentle touch for tossless serves. I did ask some of these tossless players before, but it seemed that they can not play at all tossing to serve. 

Hidden serves do not bother me that much since it will not change my timing as much. I can still miss-judge the spin, but at less I am ready to receive. And the problem with all these is that it is really hard to change one's habit until he tries it really hard. 

Hope ITTF does not come up with something that revolutionizes TT again soon.


Edited by kindof99 - 01/04/2017 at 3:07pm
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Bloomingdale
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 3:41pm
If you want to play against them you must learn how to read the spin on the ball. Return of serve is very easy today because the serve cant be hidden so I think you have a generation of new players who rely on reading the servers stroke instead of the actual spin on the ball. Is your problem not reading the spin or are you caught off guard by the speed of the serve since its not tossed up?   

Edited by jpenmaster - 01/04/2017 at 3:44pm
KKT,KTS XO,CMAX,RORIN,DYNABEAT, GMAX,JP I-S,SPEED 70,GENESIS,DaVINCI, APEX21,HANABI,KTS RED,PRIME BLUE, RSMMAX,CYPRESS S BLACK, SPEED 90
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1449
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

If you want to play against them you must learn how to read the spin on the ball. Return of serve is very easy today because the serve cant be hidden so I think you have a generation of new players who rely on reading the servers stroke instead of the actual spin on the ball. Is your problem not reading the spin or are you caught off guard by the speed of the serve since its not tossed up?   

more by caught off guard by the speed of the serve, or in another word, timing. I guess I probably need more adjustment. These player actually do not vary their serves that much. I think the key to return the tossless serves is being less aggressive.
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1449
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 4:07pm
Also, I think penhold players do not rotate body when serving. Most of these senior players just stand there and serve whenever they like. Even at practice, they can throw a ball to you when you are away from table. So I guess, I just should not play too seriously with these players. Just have fun and sweat a little if possible.
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2777
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 7:14pm
Just say put your toss back on

anyways the worst one I had was someone throwing the ball against the bat as the the bat to create a very good side spin serve
Ulmo Duality,tibhar 5Q sound black, Dtechs grass ox red
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website,
Back to Top
ericd937 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 06/01/2012
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 393
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2017 at 1:05am
I just catch the ball every time they dont toss it. Then I show them how to toss it and give it back to them. Just keep doing it over and over until they toss it correctly. They usually get angry and the people around start laughing.
Blade: Xiom Zetro Quad
FH: TSP Super SpinPips (1.4-1.7)
BH: Andro - Rasant Grip (Max)

USATT Rating 1815
Estimated playing level 1950ish.
(Living in Asia since December 2015, no USATT events here)
Back to Top
TTHOUSTON View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/24/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 93
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTHOUSTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2017 at 10:25am
Most of player toss less the ball want serve side top spin than back spin. 
Side top spin or top spin they can serve short or long, slow or fast. 
Serve back spin you can see the ball fly different, it is slice on the table. As I said, most of them will serve side top spin at important time to win or loose in the game as 7:7, 8:8 or 9:9. 
You should ready close the angle of your racket to return their serve (most of player always open racket and chop it back when they nervous). Look at their wrist and arm when they serve, always bend your knee you will see their wrist moving. Good luck
Back to Top
wanhao View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07/14/2014
Location: south east asia
Status: Offline
Points: 77
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2017 at 7:19pm
I treat it as training for myself...
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 286
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 11:30am
Depends on the context.

If this is casual playing conditions, then either wait a little bit longer to make contact, and when its your turn to serve, you can make an obviously illegal serve, like serving on top of the table really close to the net for example. If they look funny at you, just explain that since its street rules, then its all good....or just serve as usual.

I cant see this being a problem at tournaments. And if this is during league play then you need to call an umpire or maybe the cops.

FdT
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2368
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 11:58am
Most of the players at the club who do not toss the ball when serve are not very good players, so I usually have no problem playing them. There are a few very good players, who I have problem, but it's has nothing to do with the serve, and I would beg to play them every chance I have.
Back to Top
warrencowan89 View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 11/18/2014
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote warrencowan89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2017 at 11:11pm
Most people have been practicing this flicking alone, as they have no partner. Everyday in the morning I practice especially bh flick, bouncing the ball twice on the table. it helps a lot in improving my flicking skill.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer