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    Posted: 01/04/2017 at 4:39am
Are there regulations governing what the surface of a compliant table is, and how much "friction" it has? I would think there is... If so, how is it measured?

The reason I ask is that I recently played on a fairly cheap table, and noticed that the surface was much slipperier than a quality tsble. I know that more expensive tables are thicker, which makes them more expensive to produce. But I wouldn't think it would cost more to create a table with a proper amount of grip on the surface.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 10:41am
The surface of the tables are a standart paint which is green or blue. I don't know exactly from which material is this paint or how much amount needs a table to be covered.
I think that making ur own table with ur own surface, you will not have the results you think that you will have when playing. Ouch
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Tenergy 05(black 1,9mm FH)
Tenergy 05(red 1,9mm BH)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 11:37am
Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my question.
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I know friend, I wish I could help you more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/04/2017 at 3:04pm
Yes, there is a standard. Look up Technical Leaflet T1.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2017 at 6:44am
Ok, I found this:

4.8. Friction of the playing surface
The dynamic CoF between the playing surface and that of any ITTF-approved ball should not be greater than 0.6. The CoF should be essentially the same regardless of the direction in which it is measured.

That seems to say that the rule only prevents tables from being too grippy, but not from being too slippery. Can that be right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 12:04am
Originally posted by dpt dpt wrote:

Ok, I found this:

4.8. Friction of the playing surface
The dynamic CoF between the playing surface and that of any ITTF-approved ball should not be greater than 0.6. The CoF should be essentially the same regardless of the direction in which it is measured.

That seems to say that the rule only prevents tables from being too grippy, but not from being too slippery. Can that be right?


LOW FRICTION TABLE'S SURFACE (CoF< 0.2) WILL WRECK YOUR PLAY BADLY.

You get it right, there is no bottom limit established for the table's slickiness.   Manufacturers are free to use any bizarre materials to cover on the table top.   Plastic laminates with near-zero-grip is the very common covering material on both recreational and professional tables.       Some of those ITTF APPROVED Tables do produce very low coefficient of dynamic friction CoF <0.2, much like an icy surface, and poor playability as a result. The ball skidding, irregular and low bounce difficult to control.    

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73270&PID=900118&title=low-friction-table-is-a-crap#900118

Thankfully, you can easely make practical measurements of the table's dynamic friction by yourself with a decent accuracy, using the low cost digital fish scale, now available from many houseware shops.
I will gladly tell you the whole measuring procedure step-by-step if interested.



https://www.aliexpress.com/promotion/promotion_digital-fish-scales-promotion.html

Reminder. Playing on the low friction table will give you much grief and dissatisfaction because of the poor ball controlability.

To be a truly happy player always look to play on some grippier tables, As a genera rule, those non glossy, matt top surface would give a better traction.
GOOD LUCK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 12:36am
Interesting! I doubt that they use low friction tables in pro tournaments, so there must be a coefficient of friction they look for that is independent of the ittf rules. Right? Any idea what that is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 1:42am
Originally posted by dpt dpt wrote:

Ok, I found this:

4.8. Friction of the playing surface
The dynamic CoF between the playing surface and that of any ITTF-approved ball should not be greater than 0.6. The CoF should be essentially the same regardless of the direction in which it is measured.

That seems to say that the rule only prevents tables from being too grippy, but not from being too slippery. Can that be right?

In the latest edition, it is mentioned a lower limit is being arranged. However, the specific range of friction is only advisory and not mandatory.

Quote 4.8. Friction of the playing surface
The changes of both spin and trajectory when a table tennis ball bounces are governed
by the coefficient of friction (CoF) between the ball and the table; the part contributed by
the table to the CoF is almost exclusively a property of the surface finish. We formerly
specified the CoF of the playing surface, but have subsequently learned that there are
unidentified variables that reduce the reproducibility of the method. The following is
therefore advisory, not mandatory:
The dynamic CoF between the playing surface and that of any ITTF-approved ball
should not be greater than 0.6 6 and not be less than … (this limit will be set during
2016, and submitted to BoD in 2017). The CoF should be essentially the same
regardless of the direction in which it is measured.


Edited by zeio - 01/06/2017 at 1:42am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 1:54am
Originally posted by dpt dpt wrote:

Interesting! I doubt that they use low friction tables in pro tournaments, so there must be a coefficient of friction they look for that is independent of the ittf rules. Right? Any idea what that is?
About years ago I had a conversation with a former member of the Chinese National Team.  He told me that the professional tables he was used to from the pro circuit were much, much slicker than the tables he saw in the USA when he moved here.

My personal experience is that most higher quality tables (price $1600+) are quite a bit slicker than the under $1,000 tables.  It doesn't make a difference to me one way or the other (you learn to adjust), but that's my observation.

Also, I spent considerable time a few years ago contacting various table manufacturers about refinishing tables that were getting worn.  I was told that the expensive tables are applied in some sort of layering that you could not duplicate by just painting or refinishing the table yourself. Of course, they could have been lying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 2:29am
In Spain we have our national brand called ENEBE. 20 years ago they use to make ultra slick tables (even the more expensives for competition use) with a top thin layer called "melamine" that it´s commonly used at cheapo furnitures or board coverings. It was so frustrating and annoying to play since all the balls were ultra fast and almost imposible to control. It was virtually impossible to let the racket resting on the ball due to it´s skiddy table surface. 



Fortunately they quit using that material for top-table use, and overall quality has improved a lot. OTOH we´ve got just the opposite version that it´s nowadays used in many regional tournaments which is a "white brand" table made by Thibar that´s the slowest crap i´ve ever tried on my life.  It´s looks quite  a really sturdy-expensive table like their Smash 28/28R,  but the top coat is just terrible and ruins it´s playability. I  The bounce is really poor even with Xushaofa PB´s and  it soaks all the spin you could impart: even the ball stains with little marks of the coat top painting.... and it´s 150€ only cheaper than Smash 28.

However, there was sold another a white brand table (Thule Sport chesp),  by another seller (now discontinued) that was a 1:1 Stiga Roller clone, made in Eskiltuna, same table building, same quality, same board&top coating... ITTF Approved.


My personal advice: 

Stay away any crappy unknown cheapo table unless you could check it´s coat surface by yourself. Sometimes it looks a fancy/cool/sturdy table, but what really matters is their top coating for gameplay. Go for BTY, DONIC, JOOLA, STIGA, ANDRO.  Not all that glitters is gold.


Edited by jonyer1980 - 01/06/2017 at 2:37am
Rosewood NCT V 86 gr Master

Thibar MX-P MAX FH

Thibar FX-S BH



Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dpt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 5:34am
Thanks for all the informative replies. To be clear - I'm not looking to buy a table (I already have 3 (!) - all Butterfly Club 25 rollaway). I'm just curious about what the rules are about table friction.

I have been very surprised to learn that there is such a range in the ITTF approved level of table slickness, and that "slippery" tables are allowed for tournament competition. I don't really see the reason for it - it seems like there should be a certain narrow range of slickness allowed. My tables, and the Donic tables at the club I go to, all seem about the same. Topspin balls bounce high, backspin balls bite, side spin balls bounce to the side. As it should be!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 6:52am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

[QUOTE=dpt] Ok, I found this:

4.8. Friction of the playing surface
The dynamic CoF between the playing surface and that of any ITTF-approved ball should not be greater than 0.6. The CoF should be essentially the same regardless of the direction in which it is measured.

That seems to say that the rule only prevents tables from being too grippy, but not from being too slippery. Can that be right?


LOW FRICTION TABLE'S SURFACE (CoF< 0.2) WILL WRECK YOUR PLAY BADLY.

You get it right, there is no bottom limit established for the table's slickiness.   Manufacturers are free to use any bizarre materials to cover on the table top.   Plastic laminates with near-zero-grip is the very common covering material on both recreational and professional tables.       Some of those ITTF APPROVED Tables do produce very low coefficient of dynamic friction CoF <0.2, much like an icy surface, and poor playability as a result. The ball skidding, irregular and low bounce difficult to control.    

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73270&PID=900118&title=low-friction-table-is-a-crap#900118

Thankfully, you can easely make practical measurements of the table's dynamic friction by yourself with a decent accuracy, using the low cost digital fish scale, now available from many houseware shops.
I will gladly tell you the whole measuring procedure step-by-step if interested.

Please explain the procedures
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by dpt dpt wrote:

Thanks for all the informative replies. To be clear - I'm not looking to buy a table (I already have 3 (!) - all Butterfly Club 25 rollaway). I'm just curious about what the rules are about table friction.

I have been very surprised to learn that there is such a range in the ITTF approved level of table slickness, and that "slippery" tables are allowed for tournament competition. I don't really see the reason for it - it seems like there should be a certain narrow range of slickness allowed. My tables, and the Donic tables at the club I go to, all seem about the same. Topspin balls bounce high, backspin balls bite, side spin balls bounce to the side. As it should be!
One thing to keep in mind is that table friction changes with wear.  Most tables I know get slower (more friction) as they get older.  And, of course, if they're not cleaned regularly (and well), that can slow down a table quite a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 5:09pm


how the table be cleaned well and what is the most ideal method of cleaning the table without affecting its characteristics or its durability ?





Edited by manraid - 01/06/2017 at 5:10pm
MJ SZLC ST

FH Super 999t 2.2mm Red
BH Super 999t 2.2mm black


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2017 at 9:05am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Please explain the procedures


HOW CAN I KNOW ACTUAL FRICTION ON ANY GIVEN TABLE'S TOP

A good technical guidance can be found from the T1 Technical Leaflet

    A simple practical method of determining coefficient of friction uses a triangular raft or sled supported on three balls, about 2 cm apart, glued to a piece of wood or other substance that gives a total weight of about 100g.
    The sled may be pulled over the horizontal table surface at a speed of 300 mm/min, and the pulling force is measured.   The dynamic CoF is Pulling Force divided by the Weight of the sled, both in Newtons. The average of five measurements should be taken.

You can use the fish digital scale as dinamometer to measure the pulling force.
-- Connect the scale to the triangle holder, in such a way:   the scale first and the sled behind.
-- Drag the tandem over table's top manually for 20 sec at speed about 1cm per second and read the scale indication at the end of travel.. This indication should be fixed authomatically with the present type of digital scale.

HOW TO CALCULATE.
Lets say the scale indicates 0.045 kg (=45gr) and the sled total weight 160 gr.     CoF is found as follows 45 / 160 = 0.28

SOME MORE TIPS TO REMEMBER.

Before you have coupled the scale and the raft, be sure to remove the pendent hook away from the scale, for this pendant would affect resulting indication of the scale somewhat.   And you have to re-calibrate the scale after removing this hook.

When using your hand as a driving engine, it is important that you drive the scale at uniform speed all the time, same travelling speed for each of the tests.

-----------
Nippon's researchers did employ an expensive, complex apparatus for measuring the dynamic friction.   Not good for instant tests. Those apparatus are overly costly, weighty, takes much efforts to carry over and takes long time to set up.
http://www.old.ittf.com/ittf_science/SSCenter/docs/Kamijima%20K-1_revised-OK.pdf

I do prefer my own measuring methode using this great china gadget of digital scale. It is low cost, and yet high accuracy plus a wide functionality.   This thing is a true money saver, too.



Edited by igorponger - 01/08/2017 at 9:56am
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