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Nexy Karis M and M+ reviews |
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big d
Super Member Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: Nj, usa Status: Offline Points: 493 |
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at 45 bucks a sheet i don't mind changing every 2 to 3 months.note i play pretty much 5 to 6 days a week
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petr korbel
fh t05 bh nexy karis m |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1527 |
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First of all, I want to thank Nexy for the opportunity to evaluate the Karis M/M+ rubbers and the Rubicon blade and Arg0 for organizing this forum test – it is highly appreciated! Ok, let me jump straight to it as there is a lot to cover.
Background - I am a 39 yr old USATT 2000+ player allround/spin-offensive player using short pips in the BH. At the time I tested the equipment, I was recovering from hip surgeries 3 months prior. While still lacking a little bit in leg power and mobility, I would estimate that I was at ~90% of my usual level.
Testing procedure - I evaluated the following five set-ups in this order: 1) Nexy Rubicon WST, Tibhar Evolution MX-P (black, 2.1-2.2 mm), TSP Spectol (red, 1.8 mm) 2) Andro Temper Tech Off+ ST, Nexy Karis M+ (black, 2.2 mm), Spinlord Waran (red, 1.8 mm) 3) Andro Temper Tech Off+ ST, Nexy Karis M (black, 2.2 mm), Spinlord Waran (red, 1.8 mm) 4) Nexy Rubicon WST, Nexy Karis M (black, 2.2 mm), Spinlord Waran (red, 1.8 mm) 5) Nexy Rubicon WST, Nexy Karis M+ (black, 2.2 mm), Spinlord Waran (red, 1.8 mm) I used brand-new and unboosted Nexy Karis M/M+ rubbers in the tests. The non-Nexy rubbers were also unboosted but had some mileage on them: MX-P (<10 h), Waran (~30 h), and Spectol (unknown), but all playing like new. I sealed the Rubicon with a thin layer of Joola’s varnish prior to use. The Andro Temper Tech OFF+ is a little-known gem of an all-wood blade, which, unfortunately, seems to be going out of production. It is a fast and fairly stiff blade with limba outer plies and unspecified tempered inner plies, that produces a surprising amount of feel and control. The rubbers were affixed to the blades using Revolution 3 normal viscosity glue (3 layers for the new Karis rubbers). The set-ups were tested over at least two sessions, using 3-star YinHe 40+ seamless plastic balls. After ~15 min of warmup, I played practice matches against my usual training partners. NEXY RUBICON Summarizing, citing and/or paraphrasing Rubicon’s marketing material which is found here (http://nexy.com/tabletennis/en/blade/115-rubicon.html) and includes high-quality images of the blade: The outer ply of the Rubicon has vertical lines similar to hinoki plies and like the latter seems to hold on to the ball a bit longer. Rubicon has a hard, thin surface whereas most hinoki blades have a soft, thick surface. Rubicon produces good spin because it offers an embracing feeling, although the feeling is less pronounced than with limba surfaces. Rubicon has been designed to produce a high ball arc resulting in more safety over the net than other blades. Despite being factory-sealed, Rubicon’s surface wood cannot withstand very strong glue. Care should be taken during rubber removal. Technical data: Head Size 155 x 148 mm, thickness 5.9 (+/-0.1)mm, 7-ply all-wood. Unfortunately, Nexy does not describe the composition of the individual plies. Unboxing impressions: The Rubicon comes in Nexy’s signature stylish black cardboard box. The balance and grip (wide straight - WST) are PHENOMENAL. Perfect symbiosis between hand and blade providing a deep embrace. The wings are sanded just right (no blisters). The balance is tilted towards the head. The blade is beautiful in a rustic ‘woody’ type of way. However, the top ply looks like it is partly devoured by termites or bark beetles in the vertical direction. As indicated by Nexy, this is a recipe for splintering, which prompted me to seal it. My Rubicon weighed 81 g. Bouncing a ball on the blade produces a higher pitch than my Adidas Challenge Force (a Korbel clone) but a lower pitch than the Andro CS7 Tour (a Clipper clone), the Nexy Zealot, or any of the composite blades that I own (ITC Premier XF/XR; Butterfly Apolonia). Playing impressions with set-up #1 (Nexy Rubicon WST, Tibhar Evolution MX-P, TSP Spectol): I went into this test with minimal expectations. Chatter on our forum seemed to suggest that the Rubicon is a slow blade. I was, therefore, hugely surprised after hitting the first couple of FH’s. The feeling with MX-P is absolutely fantastic. The contact is crisper than with the Korbel clone, which works well for FH/BH drives. The feeling and control on loops is stunning – above average dwell time allowing for production of high spin levels and a medium-high throw that provides plenty of safety over the net, all while having plenty of power for a mid-distance game style. The blade has an ambivalence to it: at slow racket speeds it feels like a fast ALL+ or OFF- blade allowing for excellent spin production and control on touch shots and serves. With faster racket speeds it is as if an extra gear is engaged, squarely propelling it into OFF range. As correctly stated by the marketing information, the Rubicon offers an embracing feeling with an extra snap. My Spectol short pips felt reasonably crisp in the BH, allowing for effective blocking, although these pips tend to work even better on harder blades. FH flat hits with the Rubicon are probably the weakest aspect of this blade – they are perfectly doable and generate sufficient speed to win points, but you don’t get the same vulgar testosterone-filled feeling like with other blades. For playing impressions with set-ups # 4 and 5, see the Karis M/M+ reviews below. Conclusion: The Nexy Rubicon is a wonderful blade that in my opinion can be used across all levels, from beginners to professionals, from young to seasoned (especially due to the low weight). Only extreme hard-hitters might be disappointed with this blade. In my opinion, this blade is best paired with Euro/Jap rubbers up to ~48 degrees hardness – harder rubbers, especially tacky Chinese rubbers, will benefit from stiffer and faster blades such as Nexy’s Zealot. One major point of criticism: The price tag. In my world, no blade is worth $120 regardless of the craftsmanship. There is a plethora of excellent blades available below $75, making it hard to justify to shell out the MRSP of $120. Hopefully, Nexy will lower the MRSP of the Rubicon, because this is a blade that deserves wide-spread adoption. NEXY KARIS M/M+ Condensing and paraphrasing Nexy’s marketing for the Karis M/M+ rubbers: With the introduction of the poly ball, rubbers need to be more powerful. Many manufacturers have focused on combining a hard top sheet with a hard sponge. These rubbers, however, are less forgiving of improper technique and footwork. Softer topsheets have been combined with hard sponges to offer more feel. However, players who are accustomed to powerful topspin shots, require the hard top sheet + hard sponge composition. With the advent of the Karis rubbers, Nexy appears to have identified a hard/hard formula that yields very predictable, powerful, yet more forgiving rubbers. Unboxing impressions: The rubbers come in black (M) and red (M+) glossy cardboard packaging that - I am guessing - is depicting the grainy surface of the topsheets. Both of the Karis rubbers have a unique rubbery smell that made me reminisce the 1980’s and 1990’s – that’s how I remember rubbers were smelling back then. Both Karis rubbers dome significantly as you can see in the unboxing videos. The topsheets, which are identical in the two rubbers, are matte, semi-translucent, very grippy, but without any hint of tack. The surface is slightly granular, although less so than, e.g., the Stiga Airoc Astro rubbers. The topsheets have ~13 pips per 5 cm in the horizontal direction and ~22 pips per 5 cm in the vertical direction. Both Karis rubbers have blue sponges with small-to-medium sized pores. The uncut sheets weigh 64 g (M+, 2.2 mm black, 170 mm x 168 mm) and 62 g (M, 2.2 mm black, 170 mm x 168 mm). Karis M+ is medium-heavy, weighing 47 grams when cut to a 157x150 mm blade. It is, accordingly, lighter than other hard-sponged rubbers such as Hurricane 8 (53-57 g), Tibhar Evolution MX-S (52 g), Xiom Omega V Asia (51 g), Victas V>15 extra (50 g), or Hurricane 3 Neo (47-50 g). The Karis M weighs 45 grams when cut to a 157x150 mm test blade, which puts it among some of the lightest rubbers that I have tested, e.g., Tibhar Evolution FX-P (46 g), Hurricane 3 (43 g) and Nittaku Fastarc S-1 (43 g). Nexy Karis M+ Playing impressions with set-up #2 (Andro Temper Tech OFF+, Nexy Karis M+, SpinLord Waran): The first couple of FH drives quickly reveal that this is an interesting and somewhat unique rubber. The feeling upon contacting the ball is closer to a traditional Chinese rubber than hard ESN rubbers, i.e., it is a disengaged, numb feel. The Karis M+ is slower than other hard-sponged rubbers such as Tibhar Evolution MX-S, Xiom Omega V Asia, or Andro Rasant Powergrip, but faster than prototypical Chinese rubbers. Most importantly, it is, indeed, more forgiving of less-than-perfect footwork and positioning than Hurricane 3 Neo. It is a very linear rubber. FH drives are solid. Slow FH loops can be loaded with spin and produce a noticeable kick off the bounce. The Karis M+ is grippy and opening loops against heavy backspin are effortless despite the rather low throw angle. Blocking is solid and easier to execute than with traditional Chinese rubbers due to the absence of tack. For the same reason, the Karis M+ is also far less spin-sensitive, which facilitates flat hitting and aggressive serve return. However, the latter require good timing as the Karis M+ lacks the tackiness to ‘guide’ the ball over the net when executing flips. Serving with the Karis M+ is excellent – a ton of spin can be imparted on the ball – at least as much as with the MX-S, but less than with H3 Neo. Touch shots can be played with excellent control, low over the net with a good amount of spin. Playing impressions with set-up 5 (Nexy Rubicon WST, Nexy Karis M+, SpinLord Waran): Combining the Karis M+ with the Rubicon blade yields a set-up that is rather slow and which doesn’t offer a good feel on aggressive shots. The ball contact feels very disengaged and while I could play FH drives and opening FH loops fairly competently, the set-up lacked power - forcing me to use a much more open bat angle and larger swings, especially on smashes. Quite simply, this set-up resulted in a less favorable touch. I had major difficulties getting the contact point and bat angle right when playing against my regular practice partner’s heavy backspin balls (he plays with long pips on the BH using a push-blocking style). Conclusion: The Karis M+ is a hybrid between hard ESN rubbers and Chinese rubbers, being closer to the latter with respect to feel, and closer to the former with the respect to speed and spin production. It is a very linear rubber that does everything reasonably well. No hidden surprises. Nonetheless - I don’t love it. I dislike the disengaged numb feel too much. I don’t enjoy playing with it as much as I do with other rubbers. All-in-all, the Karis M+ is a great rubber, and it could suit a broad range of players all the way to advanced players. Unless paired with a fast and stiff blade, I think high-level players will find the M+ to be too slow to support a modern aggressive game style. Nexy Karis M Playing impressions with set-up #3 (Andro Temper Tech OFF+, Nexy Karis M, SpinLord Waran): Going into the test, I was expecting the Karis M to be a very similar, perhaps slightly slower version of the Karis M+. This expectation was immediately shattered within the first couple of FH drives. It is a completely different rubber. The Karis M feels much more like a prototypical ~45 degree ESN rubber – it even produces a pronounced click when playing drives, loops and flat hits. In fact, the Karis M/Temper Tech OFF+ setup feels very similar to the Donic Acuda Blue P1 / Nexy Zealot that I reviewed 1-2 years ago on MyTT. The feeling on drives and, in particular, loops is very crisp and almost speed-glue like. The fast blade compensated for the lower inherent speed of the Karis M and allowed FH loops against heavy backspin to clear the net with sufficient safety. Spin generation on slow loops is good, but it does feel as if spin production reaches a lower plateau on faster loop-drives relative to the Karis M+. The control while looping with this rubber is excellent, allowing for the execution of highly angled shots. All-in-all a very reliable rubber, and although a catapult is felt, it is appropriately balanced. Flat hits are a pleasure, in part, because the characteristics of the underlying blade are felt through the soft sponge. I was able to make numerous “reflex slap-shots” out of position that hit the target with this setup. Blocking with the Karis M is solid. Touch shots were a little harder to keep short and low than with the M+, but that is probably only a question of getting used to it. Serves seemed slightly less spinny than with the M+, but respectable amounts of spin were still produced. This is a great rubber for a clean controlled-offensive game style, but it might lack a couple of percent in spin production relative to harder sponged rubbers especially at high racket speeds.
Playing impressions with set-up #4 (Nexy Rubicon WST, Nexy Karis M, SpinLord Waran): Most of the impressions that I formed about the Karis M rubber while playing with set-up #3 also apply to this set-up. Very crisp feeling on drives, loops and smashes. Respectable spin levels on opening loops and serves. The Rubicon/M combination felt surprisingly fast on loop drives and was only slightly slower than the Temper Tech/M combination on these shots. The biggest difference caused by the blade change was on slow touch shots and serve returns, where the Rubicon’s low gear became obvious – initially, I had a tendency to put these shots into the net and had to utilize a more active stroke.
Conclusion: The Karis M is an easy-to-play and fun rubber - Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 02/13/2017 at 1:02am |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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For me, Patick's reviews have always been really helpful because later if I try the rubber, I generally get exactly the same impression, and his information is really precise and detailed. I am glad he is playing again.
So again, Patrick's experience with M seems to be very similar to mine when I read: (1) that he prefers M to M+, although my preference was maybe not quite that pronounced (2) that he can hit extreme angles with this stuff, and (3) that reflex defensive shots with M manage to go on the table, and (4) it is reliable (I used the word predictable) and (5) it is fun to use. Those are really some of the main things I continue to notice about 5 weeks into using Karis M. The thing about being able to hit really good angles on loops and drives is something Patrick mentioned and something I should have mentioned because that is definitely true for me. I am using it on a reasonably fast blade (Butterfly Viscaria). I think it needs a fast blade and I imagine it would be pretty dead on an all wood Off- or ALL+ blade. Having said that, I didn't test it on a slower blade, since I don't actually own one! So trust Patrick on that, he actually tried it. It didn't feel like an ESN rubber to me, but my references for that are Tibhar Evolution rubbers, MX-P and EL-P, and my other reference is Tenergy. To me Karis is still pretty unique when you look at the whole spectrum of how it plays. The other thing I would add is that after using it for a month+, and my technique subconsciously changing to accommodate it, I now get loads of spin on all loops and loop drives. I have no idea what I am doing that is different, but clearly something. The topsheet is very grippy, so you just kind of need to use it for awhile. Since I awakened some latent EJ infection, I ordered two sheets of Stiga Mantra M because they come from the same factory and I am curious how they compare. I probably shouldn't do that but I have already hit the mouse button. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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It's just the voyage home to T05. I use Karis on OFFz/OFF blades. The ALL+/OFF- is just not optimal for me with Karis. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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I let a playing partner hit with my blade last week and so took his TB-ALC with T05 and it is not something I will go back to soon. I have a long history of trying rubbers once and giving them away.
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puyol
Super Member Joined: 06/24/2013 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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Hello everyone. A tentative comparison to TSP Reg-B, for what it's worth.
I just tried a new M+ (red) on a Virtuoso+. As mentioned above, that zombie girlfriend ain't gonna work - "pretty dead". However, I had the TSP Regalis Blue on the other side of the V+ and it's much more dynamic, alive and spinnier while still being predictable. Definitely looks like the two are on the same sponge. The Regalis was 5g heavier uncut, at 72g, so yeah. I wanted to test the two rubbers after reading all the rave here, with Regalis being some $20 cheaper (in Japan). Just started, gonna try them on something faster next. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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Yep, $29.60 from TT-Japan. I am not sure what shipping would add, but for two sheets, still significantly less than Karis.
Interesting info! And many extra points given for the "zombie girlfriend" line. |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5039 |
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Fatt, if you ordered from Nexy Korea, they ship EMS, you should have within 3-6 days, unless they started to ship with regular Korea Post Service, that could take a while, I think KPS straps the package to the back of a sea turtle and hopes for the best.
Try emailing Hazy the International Manager at [email protected]
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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It's interesting how similar in some aspects and how different/subjective in others our opinions on equipment can be.
It looks like most of us agree that these rubbers are linear/predictable, no speed or spin demons, but fast and spinny enough for many/most, very good control, and quite easy to play with. However, unlike Patrick, I find very little similarities between any ESN rubbers I've played with in the past (Tibhar Evolution series, Xiom Vega/Omega, Donic Acuda) and Karis M or M+. It might be me, but the Karis series isn't similar to any rubber I played with in the past 10 years and much more reminds me of rubbers from pre-glue ban area. Edited by VictorK - 02/12/2017 at 11:27pm |
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99% practice
1% equipment 0% ratings |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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Now that your expectations are so high I hope you actually like it! One thing for sure, there will be moments when you will wish it was a bit faster, especially against higher level players. In other words, there are occasional trade-offs. I still think it is something pretty novel and for me the tradeoffs are worth it, when I keep in mind that I really need to be aggressive. Would I get the same benefits from something that is just slower? I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think so. And that leads me to think it might be possible to make something like it that was just as linear but a little bit faster over all. Now a lot of users say that Karis M+ is faster, but it really didn't feel good to me and actually it didn't feel particularly faster.
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Reaper
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2016 Location: Colombia Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Hello karis users!
well i'm one of those lucky testers winners and I just received them today and soon will be gluing my rubber for long time play. But i had some hesitations about the M+ since everyone is favoring the M version and i wanted to use the M+ in Red because i want to do a 180 change in life, and leave my soft rubber past behind (eg Sriver FX, Airoc S, T80FX, Skyline 3-60 soft and FX-P), although I still have one last sheet on my testing roster (Adidas e-razor d30, which i'll use along Karis M+) Normally I use fast rubber on FH and slow sticky chinese on the BH, but the adidas it's been on my shelf too long and i want to use it even if i struggle with fast rubbers on both sides. Anyway, can you be so kind to remind me in short, why don't you like the M+ ? PS: I use a Donic Alligator Combi Blade and thinking of gluing the M+ on the BH DEF+ side, and the adidas on the FH ALL+ Side. I use the BH DEF+ side for banana flicks... should i keep the M+ there or would the adidas be slower? Edit Also, many of you have unglued it and reglued, does it show shrinkage?
Edited by Reaper - 02/14/2017 at 8:50pm |
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1583 |
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Sounds like the mail slot in your door was too small to fit the parcel through. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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It's totally a feel thing. M+ just feels "not right" to me. I can't really say why. People say it is faster than M, but I didn't feel that so much. Just not a pleasant feel.
The rubbers I had used before it are certainly not soft. Overall (topsheet plus sponge) M is harder than any Tenergy FX (except for T25FX) or FX-P, so with M you would still be stepping in that direction. However, ViktorK likes M+. |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1527 |
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It just feels" disengaged, almost like hitting with a frying pan (just to exaggerate a little bit)
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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For some people, faster means they can loop harder and still get the ball to dip (which usually means less spin at lower swing/contact speeds). For some people, faster means quicker rebound. M+ is definitely faster by criteria 1. It is possibly fast by criteria 2 though I don't think so per se.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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After a month with Karis M I tried out EL-S on a Viscaria. The only way I could keep the ball on the table was with pitiful half strokes! Funny. I was not in best form anyway -- feet felt like lead -- but still felt much more comfortable with Karis.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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I know the feeling. A high level opponent thought I was using Chinese rubber because he kept wondering how I was able to keep some of his most powerful loops in the vicinity of the table even when they didn't go on, which they often did. Until I used Karis, I never really appreciated how many points poor defense was costing me.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5039 |
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I have said it often, one of the biggest reasons I moved to Karis right before the NA Teams is I can stay in more rallies and still trouble opponents.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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viva
Silver Member Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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When would nexyusa have karis in 2 mm ?
Edited by viva - 02/16/2017 at 6:31am |
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My trade feedback here:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40170&title=viva-buy-sell-feedback |
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sspark80
Member Joined: 07/02/2015 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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Hi, Viva. They have 2.0 in stock now. I bought a sheet already. Mine was the M version, not the M+.
Edited by sspark80 - 02/16/2017 at 6:36am |
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viva
Silver Member Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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I want one of each
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My trade feedback here:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40170&title=viva-buy-sell-feedback |
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Reaper
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2016 Location: Colombia Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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well, i think i'll try the M+, even if is not the most popular among most of you . Hopefully i'll start using it on sunday
Anyway, i just added both rubbers to the www.tabletennisdb.com website. (the cover images will show up soon and i hope the admin fix a typo made on the M page). Why don't you guys copy your reviews over there, helping nexy get more exposure on the TT world. The only thing that bothers me is that nexy don't have Speed, spin, control scales to fill up on the page and compare |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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Fatt, maybe it would have been better if you had not read any of this! Just see if you like one of them. Dont over-think it.
Maybe you will hate them both. |
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shaibu
Super Member Joined: 06/22/2013 Location: NYC Status: Online Points: 139 |
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If I order Karis rubbers from nexyusa and choose "free shipping" option - how will they be shipped? USPS? With or without tracking #?
Thanks |
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smackman
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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Wasn't sure whether to post this here or on the Stiga Mantra thread, but figured it fits here better because what I learned tells me more about Karis than it does about Mantra, actually.
I tried Stiga Mantra M today, it comes form the same factory in Japan. I compared it to Karis M, both on Viscarias. They were actually similar in a lot of ways, I was surprised that Mantra M was not really a lot faster (really not faster at all). Compared to Karis, the internal pips of Mantra are about twice as long, but still quite short relative to a lot of other rubbers. (The pips on the inside of Karis are incredibly short). It seems like the shorter pips is becoming a trend (see the various Rasanter threads here and at TT Daily) and I think it is a good trend (for most mortal players), taken to an extreme by Karis. Mantra has a different color to its top sheet. If I was describing it like a desert or an ice cream, I would say that it is more "rich and creamy". Brighter color. Very high quality. Yogi Bear commented on that at some length and I see where he is coming from. But just countering away, or looping while someone blocks or blocking someone's loops, these rubbers are really not all that different. At the very least, they are cousins with family resemblance even if they are not "identical cousins" (very old TV reference). But here is the interesting thing. After a month of Karis, you kind of get used to no surprises. And with Mantra M, there were occasional surprises, just like with Tenergy, and Evolution and every other modern rubber I have tried. Strange non-linearities that sometimes make you miss. As Next Level said, until you play with Karis, you really have no sense of how often this happens. I certainly didn't. I attribute this to the internal pips because as best as I can tell, THAT is the one thing about Karis that is really different from Mantra and anything else out there. Karis is like a thin topsheet sitting almost directly on top of a sponge, and their hardness is well matched, so they work together. Pips can have all sorts of effects to change the angle the ball leaves the rubber, or how long it stays on the rubber and probably lots of different things, and sometimes it is a really good effect, and sometimes it is quite non-linear and not quite what you expected. Karis eliminates this by coming as close as is possible to not having the pips at all. Mantra M is really good rubber, and a lot of people will like it. Very grippy topsheet. Nice arc to the ball, and I wanted very much to like it. And I do, actually. But I will stick with Karis M for now. One other thing, since my technique has evolved to use a slower rubber like Karis (slower compared to Tenergy or MX-P), I have no problem ripping balls fast and hard, and oddly enough compared to Mantra, I felt like my balls had more penetration with Karis. |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5039 |
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Bogeyhunter would be shipping your rubbers, he uses USPS from Florida with tracking number. Usually takes 2 days from there to upper East Coast. I would ship USPS if the customer was a West Coast and bought rubbers only or all the items ordered. I keep a smaller selection with me, most is in FL.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5039 |
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Baal, the last two months using Karis, I would take a week to adapt back to MX-P.
Karis just handles the topspin rallies for me so much better the percentages are just with Karis M on my blade... M+ on the LISSOM.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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Baal, doesn't two rubbers with more or less the same technology but one with longer pips being slower (or the same) and less penetrating than the one with visibly shorter pips strike you as odd?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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Mantra M is softer. And there are probably other reasons too that I dont know. Among them beyond coming from same factory i dont lnow how much technology they share.
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