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HRT 2091 Clipper review

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 6:40pm
Well just to throw a grenade in to the debate.
This season on and off I have been playing quite often with a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

So I have glued Hurricane 3 Neo bh and Sanwei Target National fh on both the HRT and my modified TSPW.
So tonight I had a match and a good half hour knock before whilst I like the power and directness of the HRT, I think my control and allround general play is still better and naturally more comfortable with Stratus.
Tonight I beat a young good serving, spinny, strong left handed looper, it was in 5 and it was a tight game but I had so much control in general and these are the types of players I really find difficult.
So after all the fuss I am 95% certain I am going to stick with the Stratus for at least a week or two.

It appears my relentless EJing is lunacy and the answer is right under my nose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Snakefish Snakefish wrote:



As a forum moderator, you shouldn't say this.  Please edit/delete your last sentence

 


It is close to a fake blade.  As somebody else said, HRT is very likely a source for an ocean of fake Stiga blades originating in China. (I feel free to say that because their respect for other people's creative endeavors is already obvious).

So no, I will not edit or delete my last sentence

At the same time, I have not closed or locked the thread, and people are free to buy this blade if they want it from HRT or from people here.  And if in the future people want to review HRT blades here they will be free to do so, even though my personal opinion is that people shouldn't give them the free press.

But every time I see someone reviewing one of their obviously and shamelessly copied blades, I will chime in with a plea to not do it because HRT is despicable and pathetic.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Dr.Cho Dr.Cho wrote:

Who knows if Stiga has a patent, its up to them to defend it or not.

But if you have a cheaper product .. some people will buy it. Thats the way of the world.

Thats why in business your product only has a period of time to reap profits.

Thanks mog1111 for the review it was very informative.


True.  But HRT are obvious scumbags.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chronos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 1:53pm
mog thanks for the review.  Lots of interesting points in this thread.  One observation: at least based on the pics, that clipper is a lense and box change away from being a "fake" of the previous generation of stiga blades (Stiga changed the font they use to be smaller).  I wouldn't be surprised if HRT are /were behind the sale of fake Stiga blades in the chinese market.  These days stiga blades sold in China have a holographic sticker and code but they didn't used to have those things as of a few years ago.

Some have said that the Clipper is one of the most popular blades in China so HRT is smart (business-wise) going after a piece of that market.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 1:51pm
Who knows if Stiga has a patent, its up to them to defend it or not.

But if you have a cheaper product .. some people will buy it. Thats the way of the world.

Thats why in business your product only has a period of time to reap profits.

Thanks mog1111 for the review it was very informative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Snakefish Snakefish wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

What HRT is doing goes way beyond just using the idea of the Clipper composition.  They go so far as to call it a Clipper!  They borrow every single aspect of the blade appearance.  The only thing different is the plastic insert. 

It is utterly and completely pathetic.

But one thing is true, once you have bought the blade, you might as well use it.  No problem there.

My issue is that maybe you ought not to be promoting it for other people to buy.



I'm really surprised you say,  "My issue is that maybe you ought not to be promoting it for other people to buy"

He is reviewing the HRT Clipper clone. He is giving me and others useful information.

As a forum moderator, you shouldn't say this.  Please edit/delete your last sentence

 
Baal is morally right.   HRT is using Stiga's marketing property without permission
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snakefish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

What HRT is doing goes way beyond just using the idea of the Clipper composition.  They go so far as to call it a Clipper!  They borrow every single aspect of the blade appearance.  The only thing different is the plastic insert. 

It is utterly and completely pathetic.

But one thing is true, once you have bought the blade, you might as well use it.  No problem there.

My issue is that maybe you ought not to be promoting it for other people to buy.



I'm really surprised you say,  "My issue is that maybe you ought not to be promoting it for other people to buy"

He is reviewing the HRT Clipper clone. He is giving me and others useful information.

As a forum moderator, you shouldn't say this.  Please edit/delete your last sentence

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 11:12am
What HRT is doing goes way beyond just using the idea of the Clipper composition.  They go so far as to call it a Clipper!  They borrow every single aspect of the blade appearance.  The only thing different is the plastic insert. 

It is utterly and completely pathetic.

But one thing is true, once you have bought the blade, you might as well use it.  No problem there.

My issue is that maybe you ought not to be promoting it for other people to buy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 11:02am
Are you kidding me!

Use what you want, If I pay for a blade if I want to use it I'm going to use it.
Edison stole many ideas from Tesla.
Are you going to stop using light bulbs.

Stop being so sensitive, in an artist world things can be called your own with only 3 changes.
Why pay more for an old design?

Better start coming up with something new.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 9:32am
I prefer composites but if someone said I had to use a new allwood I would probably go with TSPW or a blade from Soulspin. TSPW has a great feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:16pm
It is still possible I will go back to TSPW, that depends on whether my fh will be satisfactory when I try my new Sanwei Target National which seems very nippy for a Chinese tacky rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The original Samsonov Force Pro is really OFF-. A personal favorite. But not a Clipper.


What would the differences be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:09pm
The original Samsonov Force Pro is really OFF-. A personal favorite. But not a Clipper.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:00pm
Just use them. But now your consciousness has been raised. 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

mog, thanks for seeing the points.

Actually, since you like the Clipper, you could just get one of those.  From Stiga!  One of the classic blades of all time, although a lot of people say the old ones are better.


I prefer Tibhar. I think a Samsonov Force Pro original would probably be better for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Give them to some kids?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:55pm
Give them to some kids?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:34pm
In what way is the avalox better?
And what am I supposed to do with the HRT's.
Even though they are clones it would be a crime against trees to throw them away and if I sell them that would make me a dealer in clone goods.
What am I supposed to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Speaking of getting a clipper, its a much better bet to get a P700 or BT777 from Avalox, as the current Avalox blades are made using the same Stiga tech that was used in the 80s, this is the information i got from my friend Diego of Westside TTC who is the north american dealer for avalox.

Of course, the Avalox dealer has a vested interest in that.

LOL true, however i have played both clipper and bt777 and the bt777 is clearly a better product IMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Speaking of getting a clipper, its a much better bet to get a P700 or BT777 from Avalox, as the current Avalox blades are made using the same Stiga tech that was used in the 80s, this is the information i got from my friend Diego of Westside TTC who is the north american dealer for avalox.

Of course, the Avalox dealer has a vested interest in that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

mog, thanks for seeing the points.

Actually, since you like the Clipper, you could just get one of those.  From Stiga!  One of the classic blades of all time, although a lot of people say the old ones are better.

Speaking of getting a clipper, its a much better bet to get a P700 or BT777 from Avalox, as the current Avalox blades are made using the same Stiga tech that was used in the 80s, this is the information i got from my friend Diego of Westside TTC who is the north american dealer for avalox.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

The comparison of illegal services and cloned blades is quite laughable. Is the stiga clipper patented? "Intellectual property of a 7 ply blade?" Hilarious if satire, ridiculous if serious.


Seriously, even if it is not patented, making a blade with that appearance and even calling it a Clipper, it is absurd.  Grotesque.  Lacking in an iota of shame. 

Quite simply, it is wrong. 

Working as a faculty member at a university, my colleagues and I often find that students from Asia, and very specifically from India and China, are more likely to have no sense whatsoever of what constitutes plagiarism and often see nothing wrong with it.  There are some cultural and historical reasons for this, and the problem is maybe diminishing with time, but it still exists. (Also it is not a problem that exists solely with Asian students.  However, the issue is clearly given less emphasis to undergraduates there, so when they get to graduate programs here, they are not careful). We have to point out very specifically what plagiarism is, and what the consequences are, and an unfortunate number of students find their graduate careers cut short because they fail to learn the lesson.  HRT has the same mindset as these students.  And I still say it is truly messed up, and again, I find it really incongruent that someone in the UK who is concerned about what an illegal serve MIGHT teach his child has no problem at all with this. 

I have a big problem with it.
First of all, I am Chinese, but I am with Baal. Ya, HRT can have a 7 ply blade and says it is "Stiga Clipper Wood Clone". However, it is wrong to copy the outward appearances exactly. It is hard to distinguish HRT from Stiga if I cover the HRT label.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 10:08am
I'm still flitting between that and my Andro ligna.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 9:16am
mog, thanks for seeing the points.

Actually, since you like the Clipper, you could just get one of those.  From Stiga!  One of the classic blades of all time, although a lot of people say the old ones are better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:45am
Yes all valid points. It's difficult to argue with them! Now I feel really guilty like I should not use the HRT anymore.
And as someone who is severely underpaid for the skillset I have, I know where you are coming from!

As I said if I was convinced by 7ply I would most likely by a Force Pro anyway as I like Tibhar stuff generally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:40am
Just thinking, somebody may bring up the issue of OSP blades.  Aren't they ripping off Stiga also?  The answer is not really.  They express admiration for Stiga blades and the way they were assembled twenty years ago, and they try use those same methods and wood choices to try to recreate aspects of that experience now.  Stiga themselves no longer make blades that way.  The OSP blades have different names and in fact they are not perfect clones of even the older Stiga blades.  They don't copy Stiga's design motifs (although Yinhe managed to rip off OSP's design).  And they produce many new blades of their own design. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:32am
Mog1111,

I am going to try to explain my viewpoint since you seem receptive to listening. 

As far as the ethics of Stiga's pricing, how many blades do you think they sell?  How many people do they employ?  Do those people deserve a working wage? Would you prefer that they hire people in Europe, or would you be ok if they just offloaded the whole operation to China?  Also, at some point they had to put some effort into developing that blade?  Remember, the costs of production are more than just the wood and the machining.

Let's say it was your company making -- whatever.  And some company in China just cloned it after you put your effort into developing it, plus had to pay your employees in the UK to produce it?

I say, just buy a Stiga Clipper. 

Anticipating some additional discussion on this, it becomes a fine line as to when a clone crosses a line.  Stiga certainly doesn't own the idea of  7-py wood blades, even ones with red wood layers.  Yinhe makes a lot of blades that are similar to other makers.  But the handles have subtly different shapes, they give them different names, etc.  They are not identical.  Doubleday, once an OEM for Btfly, also makes a lot of blades that have a lot of the properties of, say, a TB-ALC blade.  But they are not absolutely identical, although some of the design motifs hint at what they are doing.  They also have a few designs that are entirely their own.

HRT has crossed the line, and they do it for nearly every blade they make.  They have clearly targeted Stiga, for the Chinese market, where Stiga has no legal recourse.   (Copying of almost anything seems ok there).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:23am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

The comparison of illegal services and cloned blades is quite laughable. Is the stiga clipper patented? "Intellectual property of a 7 ply blade?" Hilarious if satire, ridiculous if serious.


Seriously, even if it is not patented, making a blade with that appearance and even calling it a Clipper, it is absurd.  Grotesque.  Lacking in an iota of shame. 

Quite simply, it is wrong. 

Working as a faculty member at a university, my colleagues and I often find that students from Asia, and very specifically from India and China, are more likely to have no sense whatsoever of what constitutes plagiarism and often see nothing wrong with it.  There are some cultural and historical reasons for this, and the problem is maybe diminishing with time, but it still exists. (Also it is not a problem that exists solely with Asian students.  However, the issue is clearly given less emphasis to undergraduates there, so when they get to graduate programs here, they are not careful). We have to point out very specifically what plagiarism is, and what the consequences are, and an unfortunate number of students find their graduate careers cut short because they fail to learn the lesson.  HRT has the same mindset as these students.  And I still say it is truly messed up, and again, I find it really incongruent that someone in the UK who is concerned about what an illegal serve MIGHT teach his child has no problem at all with this. 

I have a big problem with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 7:57am
The comparison of illegal services and cloned blades is quite laughable. Is the stiga clipper patented? "Intellectual property of a 7 ply blade?" Hilarious if satire, ridiculous if serious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 7:07am
Last night I played a handicap match with the HRT. Played fairly well once I got going. I seemed to hit several forehands into the net, however I think this is just because the bat is a little more direct than my previous TSPW or Ligna. It is quite quick I felt and this was good and bad.
My serves I felt were better, especially the fast spinnier ones.
Pushing tight game was definitely a touch more difficult.

Now my Sanwei Target National has arrived for my FH

So now I have 3 blades to choose from;

TSPW
Ligna
HRT 2091

backhand is sorted with H3N for now
but now I have to decide stick with H3N fh or chuck the Sanwei Target National on. It has blue sponge which might make me play as well as a top Chinese pro?
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