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Andro Rasanter

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ojej View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ojej Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 11:54am
few pictures of rasanter r47 and v42 i don't know how rubbers perform i didn't test but topsheet looks similar to rasant grip 


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Edited by ojej - 03/23/2017 at 11:56am
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fh: tenergy 05
bh: tenergy 05

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bjoern Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by siestakey siestakey wrote:

  

Hi Bjoern , for Rasant Grip do you mean V47 or V42 not R42 ?

I meant it like this:

Rasant -> R47 or R42
Rasant Grip -> V47 or R42

Why? Because the topsheet of Rasant Grip feels a bit softer and the sponge is 45°. To come as close as possible to this rubber, you can use either R42 or V47.
R42 -> 42° but the R-surface provides a slightly harder touch
V47 -> 47° but the V-surface provides a slightly softer touch


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanchope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 1:12pm
I don't see how the topsheets are materially thinner than before, at least not as they advertized.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 3:14pm


WOW.

Is that topsheet reserved only for the 2.3mm AKA Ultramax sponge?

Edited by zeio - 03/23/2017 at 3:16pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 6:04pm
Zeio: that thinness in that photo is exaggerated. But yes, for the rubber + sponge to pass the <=4mm rule, the topsheet should have been made thinner than in the prior Rasant generation.

Red Rasanter R47 ultramax (2.3mm)

Dimensions: 168 x 167mm
Weight: 69.5g
Weight / unit area: 0.248 gms / sq cm

Hardness: feels between MX-P and EL-S. The sponge + topsheet combo is floppy out of the package (not stiff).

Strong booster smell. All new ESN rubbers (like MX-P) have this (though MX-P smells of a different booster, perhaps)
Good news: pores in sponge are small (much smaller than MX-P. Probably smaller than Tenergy)




Edited by slevin - 03/24/2017 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 6:35pm
Well, it says on the banner "unprecedented 2.3mm!" Ahem. ESN has gone 2.6mm before, duh! Even the topsheet for 2.3mm sponge is ridiculously thin already, imagine the one for 2.6mm.

Butterfly took extra care on durability for the Bryce Highspeed and concluded the topsheet needed to best be within .3mm-.6mm.


Bryce Highspeed with Micro layer, left. Bryce Speed, right.

Edited by zeio - 03/23/2017 at 6:47pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Zeio: that thinness in that photo is exaggerated. But yes, for the rubber + sponge to pass the <=4mm rule, the topsheet should have been made thinner than in the prior Rasant generation.

Red Rasanter R47 ultramax (2.3mm)

Dimensions: 168 x 167mm
Weight: 69.5g
Weight / unit area: 24.77 gms / sq cm

Hardness: feels between MX-P and EL-S. The sponge + topsheet combo is floppy out of the package (not stiff).

Strong booster smell. All new ESN rubbers (like MX-P) have this (though MX-P smells of a different booster, perhaps)
Good news: pores in sponge are small (much smaller than MX-P. Probably smaller than Tenergy)





So the topsheet for 2.3mm is the same one for 2.0mm, as in ojej's pix?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 6:48pm
I don't have 2.0mm R47 to compare with, but it seems so in that picture. But it is a lot less thin than the Donic topsheet in your pic. Rasanter topsheet seems to be of good quality. That Donic topsheet just seemed cheap. Is that some new-gen ESN rubber?

After I cut it for blade, I'll play around with the uncut piece, a low power magnifier and a digital caliper. I don't know how to take close-up photos (with smarphone) like yogi and the rest of you do though.




Edited by slevin - 03/23/2017 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 6:53pm
ESN tried to go for some ultra-thin topsheet with ultra-thick sponge in the early 2000s but it didn't end well. Didn't last at all. People went through them like toilet paper. Imagine the 40+ situation applied for the rubber.

I don't know. I don't feel excited about the Rasanter. I wish I would.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 7:19pm
Acuda Blue already has a wafer thin topsheet, and durability is good. Its looping performance is not though, so I'm hoping that Rasanter fixes that. We shall see, but I'm not going to prejudge it too much based on something ESN did over 10 years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2017 at 9:36pm
R47, .2mm topsheet according to Table Tennis Kingdom.




In the video review, they say the topsheet is thin, thus allowing the ball to dig in and easy to spin with. Also, it can send the ball flying a good distance when hit low on the racket(near the end of blade head?) It gives off the impression of a rubber suitable for everyone. It has good grip on the ball yet doesn't feel hard. That hard feel specific to the plastic ball is not there.

Still not excited.

Edited by zeio - 03/23/2017 at 9:52pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 1:48am
I don't want to write too much as it is late, but I am impressed (on initial play).

First,  I forgot to mention cut weight on a standard 157x150 blade: 46g including 3 thin glue layers. Very light.

I glued up a new MX-P max and R47 max on a Nittaku Holz Sieben blade. I played 8 league matches with it (about 3.5 hours of total play time). So, just initial thoughts here.

This rubber corrects all that bothered me about 45 degree ESN rubbers (Rasant Grip, Omega V Europe, Rakza 9, etc). Easy spin using them. But all those 45 degree rubbers (with the large pored sponges) feel unstable on harder hits or while blocking powerful topspins. Bottoming out takes place. This does not happen (for me) with T05, BTW. Also, Rasant Grip had very low throw on harder hits.

I tried fixing this by putting 47.5 - 50 degree rubbers on BH (MX-P / Rakza X / Xiom Omega V Tour). However, then, I lose a little easy spin and more important, I brush a bit too much.

R47 (to me, that is) is the golden middle. It definitely feels softer than MX-P. More important, because of the thin topsheet, it is easy to generate spin (using sponge as topsheet bends easily. Easier to generate spin than with MX-P). The ball sinks into sponge much more than with MX-P. And, because it is a thick sponge, there is no bottoming out. There is more dwell with R47 than with MX-P. Fantastic grip (feels like Omega V Europe topsheet grip) on plastic ball.

Loops were easy to spin and there was serious arc  (perhaps the thick sponge helped here). While this is not a bouncy rubber, it is powerful (I'd say more powerful than Rasant Grip or Omega V Europe. About as powerful as Rakza 9). However, it is very controllable (not bouncy). Very good spin & due to the thick sponge, there was a very pronounced arc (medium throw).

So yes, I agree on Andro's getting rid of Rasant Grip. That is a bad rubber compared to this.

Of course, we have the usual caveats (durability: unknown, etc).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 2:21am
That is really light for a tensor on that hardness scale, thanks for the initial review, looking forward to a more detailed one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 6:17am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

R47, .2mm topsheet according to Table Tennis Kingdom.



Still not excited.

That pic still doesn't look as thin as acuda blue.  They've probably gone somewhere in the middle.

I understand rubber fatigue.  It's how babies are born, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 6:19am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Loops were easy to spin and there was serious arc  (perhaps the thick sponge helped here). While this is not a bouncy rubber, it is powerful (I'd say more powerful than Rasant Grip or Omega V Europe. About as powerful as Rakza 9). However, it is very controllable (not bouncy). Very good spin & due to the thick sponge, there was a very pronounced arc (medium throw).

This does sound promising.  If it maintains the arc on harder strokes then it could definitely be an upgrade on EL-S.

Early days yet though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 6:25am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

First,  I forgot to mention cut weight on a standard 157x150 blade: 46g including 3 thin glue layers. Very light.

You mentioned above "Weight / unit area: 24.77 gms / sq cm", is that a different rubber, because that's not light at all?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 9:31am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

You mentioned above "Weight / unit area: 24.77 gms / sq cm", is that a different rubber, because that's not light at all?

OK. I edited the number down to 0.2477 gm / sq cm!

When I say light, I relative to other 47 degree rubbers. For me, weight with glue matters more. I normally use 3 layers of Tearmender on it.

MX-P (because of large pores, perhaps) cut to my blade is more like 51g-52g. So, 46-47g for R47 (that has a similar hardness sponge) is light - lighter than T05 and about the same as T80. So, in the same category as Acuda Blue P1.




Edited by slevin - 03/24/2017 at 11:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 9:35am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

This does sound promising.  If it maintains the arc on harder strokes then it could definitely be an upgrade on EL-S.

Early days yet though.

Yes, that is exactly my problem with EL-S.

Though, there are many players who are comfortable playing with softer rubbers - you have to make sure you don't hit the ball into the sponge very hard.

And yes, early days, for sure.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 1:10pm
46-47g for R47 glued versus density 0.2477 doesn't add up.
I got an extra 49g when I glued a 0.242-density rubber on standard blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 3:43pm
Blades have variations in head size even for the same standard dimensions of 150x157. For instance, stigma blades are more circular (broader wings at the end of the head) than other paddles like butterfly, and this means more surface area, and more weight when you glue the rubber. I see this a lot when I change rubbers between blades, although there's also the shrinkage factor to take into consideration as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2017 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

R47, .2mm topsheet according to Table Tennis Kingdom.



Still not excited.


That pic still doesn't look as thin as acuda blue.  They've probably gone somewhere in the middle.

I understand rubber fatigue.  It's how babies are born, right?



On the Donic Japan site, Bluestorm is described as having a .1mm sheet, plus the MAX+ sponge. That sounds much more exciting.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2017 at 12:39pm
Im also interested in this rubber, particularly the R47. If the weight reduction is significant and spin is comparable to ELS i might want to try it.

Edited by DreiZ - 03/25/2017 at 12:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2017 at 1:51pm
don't rush it. weight reduction is significant compared to mx-p, not el-s. wait till durability and reviews on relative spin come out (i don't like to judge spin by how it plays out of packet)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2017 at 3:57pm
Ok. Psuedo-excitement got the better of me. For Bluestorm, it actually referred to the sponge being .1mm thicker. OTOH, for the R47 the topsheet is .2mm thinner. Definitely not excited.

Edited by zeio - 03/25/2017 at 3:57pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2017 at 8:03pm
*eagerly awaiting reviews
akifumi makes it look awesome


Edited by kurokami - 03/25/2017 at 8:03pm
Viscaria
H3N/T05
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2017 at 6:27am
weight correction (as a few of you expected): it weighed 49g cut.
So, a bit less than MX-P but same weight as T05.

Am going to try the rubber out on a composite blade (Freitas ALC) along with MX-P.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saitama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2017 at 8:37pm
What can you say about the Rasanter's durability?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rich L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2017 at 10:05pm
R42 2.0mm Red weighed in at 61g uncut.
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BH: Xiom Omega VI Europe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2017 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by Saitama Saitama wrote:

What can you say about the Rasanter's durability?

he just got it...
Viscaria
H3N/T05
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2017 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

R42 2.0mm Red weighed in at 61g uncut.

Same sheet size of Dimensions: 168 x 167mm?
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