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Backhand rubber recommendation

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Hozuki View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/13/2017 at 3:19pm
Hello all,

As the season is over now I want to replace my worn out Tibhar Genius with something more suitable for my game. I am an intermediate player, just getting back into local league games after 10 years break.

My BH is a tricky issue, since my current equipment is very FH optimized.
I'm using a 6.5 TSP Balsa fiber blade with H2 on FH, since it supports my close to the table driving / counterdriving game very well. However, I much prefer a looping game on my backhand, therefore finding a suitable BH rubber is tricky. With the Genius, I found it good enough to loop from mid to far distance, but flicks and opening loops were inconsistent, and that is a huge part of my game since I want to put pressure on my opponent from close to the table. I think the the topsheet of the Genius might be too soft or just not grippy enough, because I have a fast brushing technique with my wrist on any of my BH shots and thus the ball sometimes slips or goes out.

So my question is, what kind of BH rubber would be a good fit for my game and my blade?

I think it should fulfill the following requirements, but feel free to challenge them:
-high throw (for looping at any distance, blade is stiff low throw anyway)
-medium sponge hardness (40-48 degree, softer rubbers are just too bouncy for short game)
-medium hard, very grippy topsheet
-medium speed
-many gears
-directional stabilily

I would really appreciate your input Smile
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Chairman Meow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2017 at 3:39pm
I am not very good at recommending rubbers, but I'll give input anyway.

Yasaka Rising Dragon?
It is a slightly tacky, medium hard rubber with a Japanese sponge. It is not too bouncy or fast, but it is fast enough. This used to be my FH rubber of choice.
It does not have a high throw (when I think high, I think Hurricane), but it is certainly grippy enough to lift balls easily It will just take some adjustment. The topsheet is hybrid Chinese, so it is medium hard, very grippy, and medium tacky. The tackiness will help a lot in the short game and with your brushing technique. It has a medium hard sponge, similar in hardness to Rasant PowerGrip. I don't know what you mean by directional stability, so I will put it under the category 'control'. RD is very controllable, it just takes some getting used to at first.

The only thing that I see as a negative is a weight. RD is quite heavy. I remember seeing it pretty high up there on the Rubber Mass Database. However, you are using a Balsa blade, which I assume is light. So, the weight may not be much of an issue.

Whatever I just typed could be wrong. Please take this with a grain of salt. Your interpretations may vary from mine.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, it is also very durable. I have had mine for 1.5 years now (I play 20 hours a week) and it is still tacky and working. Some parts on the edges are coming off, but nothing actually affects play





Edited by Chairman Meow - 04/13/2017 at 3:47pm
(Blade-FH-BH)
-BBC 1 ply Cypress 10mm "The Castigator"
-H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg.
-H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.15mm 39 deg
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ronakvyas86 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronakvyas86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2017 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:


I think it should fulfill the following requirements, but feel free to challenge them:
-high throw (for looping at any distance, blade is stiff low throw anyway)
-medium sponge hardness (40-48 degree, softer rubbers are just too bouncy for short game)
-medium hard, very grippy topsheet
-medium speed
-many gears
-directional stabilily

I would really appreciate your input Smile


Donic baracuda is what you need.
Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB
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NextLevel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2017 at 5:30pm
Get a red H3 provincial. 37 degrees would be ideal for you.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Nexy Tibhar KJH FL
FH: Karis M B
BH: Karis M R
Lumberjack TT Exponent
No train, no gain.
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rickywinataa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rickywinataa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2017 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Get a red H3 provincial. 37 degrees would be ideal for you.

Hurricane for BH? Why?
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Hozuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 4:32am
Thank you for your recommendations so far.
So it looks like I need a modern soft and porous sponge on a very grippy or tacky topsheet?

The Baracuda is supposed to be very similar to the Genius, same 47 deg sponge, slightly harder topsheet, so probably most conservative choice. How is the durability of its topsheet though? The Genius gets cracks all over the place after 8 Months or so.

H3 on a modern porous sponge makes sense (like some CNT members use lately) but does that 37 deg provincial really have such one?

YRD also seems to be that, hybrid chinese topsheet on jap sponge, so it could be nice too.
Weight is really of no issue, my blade is indeed very light, I have no trouble with using a cut sheet weight of around 50g. Actually it would be best if it was around the same weight as H2 to keep a nice balance.

I would also like to add that I'd like my rubbers to either last long or be cheap, so YRD seems to be a winner so far.

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NextLevel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 7:51am
Originally posted by rickywinataa rickywinataa wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Get a red H3 provincial. 37 degrees would be ideal for you.

Hurricane for BH? Why?

Why not?

I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Nexy Tibhar KJH FL
FH: Karis M B
BH: Karis M R
Lumberjack TT Exponent
No train, no gain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronakvyas86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 12:53pm
Baracuda topsheet is very durable. Its hardness is 42 degrees, not 47. I thought you're looking for high throw rubbers. Rising dragon does not have high throw.
Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 1:35pm
Is the topsheet 100% natural caoutchouc, or a mixture with synthethic? If it was the former, then higher durabilty makes sense. I really hope the topsheet is significantly different from that of genius. I hope my local retailer has a sheet that I could test and since it seems to be a popular rubber that might be likely.

The sponge hardness of Baracuda, however, is undoubtedly 47,5 degree:
http://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/sponge-hardness-table/
Like I said before, it has the exact same sponge as the Genius (all 2nd gen ESN tensors have the same sponge, which are Hexer, Xplode, Baracuda and Genius) which is 47,5 deg. (official source)
If you don't believe me, just look at this post, sponge clearly looks identical, just has a different color.
Please check your sources before spreading misinformation.
My fear is that it might actually just be the exact same rubber. Just different branding...

YRD seems to have a medium throw, but since I brush a lot when looping, tacky rubbers tend to be higher throw for me than for the average player.

Any further suggestions?


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debraj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 6:11pm
go 45 or 47.5 degree modern esn (launched within last 3-4 years) with 1.9mm/2.0mm sponge ......


you cannot get the combination of all your requirements with max sponge. my 2.0 cents.
729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH)
vid1
Vid 2
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Hozuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 6:52pm
Thanks for your 2 cents debraj Smile
What in particular do you think is the problem with max sponge / easier to do with thinner sponge?

Anyways, modern ESN stuff should be easy to test in my local store. Will do so next week.



Edited by Hozuki - 04/14/2017 at 6:52pm
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Kolev View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 4:04am
Vega Japan suits your requirements. Plays great on my blade , which is similar to yours, maybe on the faster side for some.
You may also consider the new Mantra. I have it on my BH (FHT64) and simply love it
4x Hallmark Carbon Extreme
FH: T64 and Similar
BH: Nothing Helps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 4:46am
Vega Japan on a TSP Balsa 6.5 ? Puh, that`s very springy, isn`t it?

In my eyes there are 2 options:

1) you could choose a more linear blade, but I think, you will not choose this option,
as you like the blade/fh-rubber combination
2) you could choose a hard, but more linear rubber instead of the modern ESN rubbers.
For example a thin (1,8 mm) Victas VS>401 could be a good option for you.
This rubber is good for blocking and extremely spinny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 5:30am
vario big slam
rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 3:26pm
Added Vega, Mantra and Victas to testing list Smile
had regular vario some time ago, topsheet is just not suitable for brush looping.

Yes, the balsa blade does add quite a bit of spring, which makes soft rubbers completely uncontrollable.
For fun I put a sheet of tibhar nimbus soft on it (37,5deg) and it was the most uncontrollable, bounciest setup ever.

Today I was trying out FH rubbers, because I wanted to see if a boosted 39 deg H3 commercial could be used for either FH or BH. It actually turned out that the H2N was good on the backhand side - aside from the very low throw of course. Well I could pull off loops with a decent height, but it is too much strain on my body and needs too much recovery time. The boosted H3 did have better throw angle, but I find it too unpredictable and thus, inconsistent.

This is because the H3 makes a curve on loops that travels straight for a long time until it eventually sharply drops. When looping continously, some balls would drop a few centimeters short, some would miss the table by the same amount. This doesn't happen with H2N. Its arc is symetrical and predictable. The Neo sponge is also bouncier, which is nice for blocking and quick counterhitting on the BH.

Something that is quite linear and only slightly bouncy with symmetric arc, like H2N, but higher throw and slightly softer sponge (45-48deg) would do nicely, I think. Does anything spring to mind there?

Thinner Sponge (1,8-2mm) sounds interesting as well, as long as the sponge is hard enough to not bottom out when hit hard (because I hate that).
I remember bottoming out a geospin tacky (around 48 deg) in 1,8mm during very fast BH loop driving. (okay, I know this rubber is not designed for thatEmbarrassed)
On the other hand, I have never bottomed out the Genius (47,5 deg) in 2,0mm.

So what's your experience with sponge hardness vs thickness tradeoff on backhand?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:


Something that is quite linear and only slightly bouncy with symmetric arc, like H2N, but higher throw and slightly softer sponge (45-48deg) would do nicely, I think. Does anything spring to mind there?

I think RD fits this quite well. There is another one called Shining Dragon, which may be more like what you are looking for, but I have not tried it.
(Blade-FH-BH)
-BBC 1 ply Cypress 10mm "The Castigator"
-H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg.
-H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.15mm 39 deg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 5:24am
Xiom omega v tour 2.0 tour has these characteristics. Little tacky,medium, directional control and last a long time. Medium fast.
Viscaria FL
Tibhar Evolution MX-S 2.2 Black FH
Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 Red BH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 7:19pm
Thanks Mickael, added it to my list.

I checked with my local shop and it turns out they do have a list of rubbers available for testing.
Hope I can find a good fit, tried 5 sheets on it so far and none have been satisfying.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Hello all,

As the season is over now I want to replace my worn out Tibhar Genius with something more suitable for my game. I am an intermediate player, just getting back into local league games after 10 years break.

...

Don't have a lot to add (but would add .02 for Baracuda and would also vouch for its durability).

For my curiosity - what's your TTR?
USATT: 1800
Baracuda - Defplay - Dornenglanz OX
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Hozuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 1:45pm
I just started to play again after 10 year absense and my TTR was reset to league average. The club I joined only had space in their lower teams, hence I am horribly underrated now lol. I only played half a season and increased my score by 60 points to 1200. My current level is around 1300-1400, but that's still low due to the long hiatus and equipment adjustment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 4:36am
I am truly impressed by the list of blades and rubbers available for test. Didn't know Contra do that
4x Hallmark Carbon Extreme
FH: T64 and Similar
BH: Nothing Helps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stancuzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2017 at 12:44pm
I have tried Rakza 7 on the exact blade FH /BH and I'd say it works just fine.
My 2 cents. :-)

Edited by stancuzi - 05/01/2017 at 2:03pm
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