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Donic equivalent of Tenergy 05

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AndySmith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

In any case, whatever it is the OP is doing to his Tenergies, he is not likely to find any Donic rubber that wears longer.

Oh well, yes.  We are veering off topic here aren't we?  Apologies.

Correct of course.  I've never known anyone destroy tenergy like the OP claims to, and anything I can suggest would presumably be even worse in terms of durability.  I literally have no suggestions.  I can suggest (as others have) alternatives that play similarly, but they would last 1.5 weeks rather than 2 on the OP's apocalyptic hulkbuster scale of doom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:


Well, tell me what you think "factory boosted" means and we can start from there.

I've heard the re-attach thing many times.  Why would you think it would be good for the rubber?  Perhaps that's related to the whole thing.

But to be clear - I think tenergy, and ESN (and others) undergo an expansion process during manufacture - no idea how or at what stage.  The porous sponges are an essential part of this.  After use, or over time, the rubber contracts.  Can I call that "factory boosting"?  Or is it just "making a rubber"?  I don't really care in all honesty.

I don't sweat it myself.  I do find it interesting that "factory boosting" seems to be considered by some to be a dirty phrase, and ESN probably do it, but Butterfly probably don't.  I would say it was some kind of bias, but I can't in all honesty because although I've seen tenergy shrink a lot, reputable posters have said the exact opposite.  But wow do people seem very sensitive about calling tenergy "factory boosted".

I see the same kind of properties in both, but the degrees vary a lot.  For example, older stuff like MX-P and Bluefire M obviously shrink when removed from their blade after some use, but more recent ESN don't (or at least, not as obviously), and they don't smell so much of "tuner" (which is not to suggest ESN pay people to brush it on the sponge at the last minute, or some other workhouse fantasy), and they lay almost totally flat.  Flatter than tenergy out of the packet, which has a slight curl at the edges (more noticeable on the softer sponges).  Man, look at the promo shots of Rozena - a very obvious edge curl.


I heard detaching and reattaching was good for rubber from people I thought knew a lot, so I did it for awhile but I never really noticed that it improved anything so stopped doing it.  I really don't like messing with my equipment more than I need to and I really don't particularly enjoy gluing down my rubber.  (Hence I don't miss speed gluing).

To me, "factory boosting" means that at a very late stage in the manufacturing process, after the topsheet and sponge are glued together, the factory adds something that is more or less equivalent to booster to the sponge.  In other words, the factory is doing essentially what one of us would do when we boost a rubber. This results in some degree of doming right out of the package, a strong smell (MX-P smells like Dandoy BioBooster), fairly rapid but biphasic decline in rubber performance as the stuff evaporates, and extreme shrinking as soon as you remove the rubber.  I don't think that is the secret sauce of Tenergy.  They achieve their performance in some other way, one that has always been more stable over time, that like you, I suspect is inherent to the sponge and its large pored structure but I don't think it is factory boosting the way I define it above. 

It has been almost a decade now and it would be surprising if ESN hadn't figured some or all of it out on their own (or maybe they've devised new tricks of their own).  Either way, I suspect they are not reliant any longer on factory boosting the way I defined it above (and which were highly characteristic of Evolution and Bluefire when they first came out).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jasonh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 9:01pm
Lets go back to the good power sponge age, let air be the best tuner. :D

Baal, would you consider the recent JP rubbers, e.g. Airoc series, TSP regalis, Nittaku Flyatt Spin, those that are severely doomed "factory tuned" or not? 
Fly away!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 9:11pm
I have no idea. I've never tried them. Mantra doesnt seem like Evolution FWIW. I domes a little but I only hit with it a couple of times before abandoning it so I dont k ow how fast it fades. No booster smell.

Karis M lies perfectly flat, has no smell and see s to last forever. But it doesn't play at all like a boosted rubber. (I still like it a lot).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 9:19pm
By the way, I am amazed by the durability of Karis. Problem is that a lot of T05 users will not adapt to it very easily. I still don't see how anyone can kill a T05 that fast. Even if the only thing you bothered to train was a FH loop for hours per day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 9:37pm
We all now want to see OPs forehand looping video
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/17/2017 at 9:58pm
I find it pretty funny when someone says I am rated 1400-1700 with a 2000+ forehand. It's​ either one or the other. Also I don't believe for one second that anyone, 1700 or 2100, can kill a sheet of t05 in just two weeks (unless you are Timo or Freitas). Finally, I know someone rated 1900 who changes his t05s ONCE A YEAR while playing twice a week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote al_111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 2:35am
There was a topic in Ukrainian TT forum recently where a newbie complained about wearing down national H3 (among other rubbers) in just a couple sessions. The investigation showed he was wiping off the dust too hard without moisturizing the topsheet beforeLOL The guy told nothing about breaking the pips, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 7:29pm
To be fair, I hit the ball harder when I was rated 1222 than when I got to 2000, that was actually part of the problem. But, going up the ratings ladder from there, you do need a certain minimum amount of pace to rally with better players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gianquittia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 9:50am
Hi,
  Here are some pics of my Tenergy 05 a few hours use is the first couple (they look pretty new) and the last pic is around a couple weeks of use.

http://imgur.com/a/4yIor

The rubber is still spinny.  It just requires a lot more effort and a bit more of an upward stroke for the same result as the newer rubber.  All the pics are of clean rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 10:52am
Originally posted by gianquittia gianquittia wrote:

Hi,
  Here are some pics of my Tenergy 05 a few hours use is the first couple (they look pretty new) and the last pic is around a couple weeks of use.

http://imgur.com/a/4yIor

The rubber is still spinny.  It just requires a lot more effort and a bit more of an upward stroke for the same result as the newer rubber.  All the pics are of clean rubbers.

Looking at the rubber, I think you don't have to change the rubber but change your way to play table tennis.
You will not find any rubber out of Tenergy to be good for you.
You have to answer to yourself: why have to brush the ball heavily like that? Why not smash, why not play easier?

I used to play Tenergy on BH. It costs me 2 weeks for one sheet, so I have to cut it like this



And



But I have found that it is still costly for me, so I have changed to long pimples playing chop finally!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 10:59am
There is no need to change that rubber after 2 weeks. Still looks pretty good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 11:02am
Originally posted by gianquittia gianquittia wrote:

Hi,
  Here are some pics of my Tenergy 05 a few hours use is the first couple (they look pretty new) and the last pic is around a couple weeks of use.

http://imgur.com/a/4yIor

The rubber is still spinny.  It just requires a lot more effort and a bit more of an upward stroke for the same result as the newer rubber.  All the pics are of clean rubbers.

That's normal wear and tear. I agree that it requires a tiny bit of an adjustment but that's no big deal if you ask me...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 11:20am
Originally posted by gianquittia gianquittia wrote:

Hi,
  Here are some pics of my Tenergy 05 a few hours use is the first couple (they look pretty new) and the last pic is around a couple weeks of use.

http://imgur.com/a/4yIor

The rubber is still spinny.  It just requires a lot more effort and a bit more of an upward stroke for the same result as the newer rubber.  All the pics are of clean rubbers.


Not at all unusual wear for 40 hours of play.  You can use the rubber a lot longer than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 12:17pm
If your glue job isn't good and the rubber detaches from the blade in some places then the performance goes way down. Maybe it's as simple as that. Re-glue and find out before you replace.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 1:35pm
Your technique is likely suboptimal. Good luck with your search. The alternative is to buy a bottle of Dsndoy bioboost and apply a small quantity to the sponge to gwt 10 more hours for your technique.

Edited by NextLevel - 04/27/2017 at 1:37pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Your technique is likely suboptimal. Good luck with your search. The alternative is to buy a bottle of Dsndoy bioboost and apply a small quantity to the sponge to gwt 10 more hours for your technique.


Is supoptimal a code word for something else?Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Your technique is likely suboptimal. Good luck with your search. The alternative is to buy a bottle of Dsndoy bioboost and apply a small quantity to the sponge to gwt 10 more hours for your technique.


Is supoptimal a code word for something else?Smile
Not really, you can't loop at a purported 1700 level with everything wrong but the idea that you should be thinly using the topsheet is clearly wrong but that is not the topic of this thread so no need to get into it.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gianquittia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 9:31pm
I'll probably keep my technique.  I am taking games from 2000 players now and keep improving.  My feet and anticipation are what my main issues are after the point is started.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 2:38am
Are you planning to sell your tenergies that are worn out after a couple of weeks? I'm interested
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 8:50am
Originally posted by gianquittia gianquittia wrote:

I'll probably keep my technique.  I am taking games from 2000 players now and keep improving.  My feet and anticipation are what my main issues are after the point is started.

When your technique improves to the level that you beat these players, I suspect that your obsession with the rubber's performance will go away.  I could be wrong of course, but I know someone who goes through a similar problem and I had to show him that a coach (and the coach's 2300 student) was using dead Tenergy to loop and push with heavy spin to help him realize that the issue was not his rubber.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 10:52am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by gianquittia gianquittia wrote:

I'll probably keep my technique.  I am taking games from 2000 players now and keep improving.  My feet and anticipation are what my main issues are after the point is started.

When your technique improves to the level that you beat these players, I suspect that your obsession with the rubber's performance will go away.  I could be wrong of course, but I know someone who goes through a similar problem and I had to show him that a coach (and the coach's 2300 student) was using dead Tenergy to loop and push with heavy spin to help him realize that the issue was not his rubber.

Why find fault with yourself/technique/gameplan when you can blame lets, nets, rubbers, shoes, lighting or literally anything else!

Just play the game. Even if you are unluckier over a large sample of matches, hey, better to be unlucky at table tennis than unlucky in some other aspects of your life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gianquittia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 11:26am
I give my tenergies away to my dealer who makes blades for the Boy's Club.  In turn I get the rubber at 60 a sheet.  The reason why I am not changing my forehand technique is because I generate a decent amount of power and spin and have had people tell me my stroke is good, not that there isn't room for improvement or tweaks.  I just don't think it needs a full overhaul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 11:37am
Your dealer probably sells them for 40 bucks as minor used
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gianquittia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Your dealer probably sells them for 40 bucks as minor used

Whatever he does is his business as long as I get the discount.  I don't think 60-70 hours use is minor used, but to others maybe so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 11:58am
Originally posted by gianquittia gianquittia wrote:


I give my tenergies away to my dealer who makes blades for the Boy's Club.  In turn I get the rubber at 60 a sheet.  The reason why I am not changing my forehand technique is because I generate a decent amount of power and spin and have had people tell me my stroke is good, not that there isn't room for improvement or tweaks.  I just don't think it needs a full overhaul.

I guess in the absence of video I will have to defer to your experience. No beed for full overhaul, I have specified thr problem which is that topsheet focused looping isn't optimal so you need a deeper contact depth. It doesn't mean one shoulf not loop with the topsheet occasionally but it reduces the ability to control heavy spin if done habitually. It's okay to open up and serve that way, but that places a limit on what you csn fo. I am only going by your description of your technique, in fact for 40 hours IMO, the rubbers are hardly used becsuse you really haven't used the pimples. If i used a rubber for 40 hours, it would look like it was punished for stealing money from the Joker and it would still have life in it.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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