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Grippiest Topsheet, community project!

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Hozuki View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/16/2017 at 9:05pm
Hello all,

I am trying to find the rubber with the grippiest topsheet, to make all brush loopers out there happy. In doing so, I propose a simple experiment, which I'd like you to replicate for your rubbers, so we can compile a list.

Method:
  1. Take a ball of your choice (preferably a new poly/plastic), then drag it over the lower part of your rubber just above the writings, while applying just such an amount of force, that the ball barely moves.
  2. Repeat the same process on another rubber while applying an equal amount of force, comparing the speed at which the ball glides over the new rubber
  3. Repeat for other rubbers, compare them and sort them from grippiest to slippiest.
  4. Write your results in this thread
I'll make a start:

From grippiest to slippiest:

H3 Nat. = H2 Neo >= PF4 >= Geospin tacky > TG2 Neo > Super 999t >> Genius >>> Vario Soft = Nimbus Soft

Surely, tackiness plays a role here. However, the 999t is by far the tackiest (holds ball over 1 min.), but surely not the grippiest. Might put a tackiness comparison as well:

From tacky to non tacky:


Super 999t >> TG2 Neo > H2 Neo > H3 Nat. > Geospin tacky = PF4 >>> Genius > Vario Soft = Nimbus Soft

This test should also help to identify the rubbers with the highest spin potential on fast and heavily brushed loopdrives.

Please join the fun Smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/16/2017 at 9:31pm
This is probably fun, but good looping always requires optimal use of the sponge even when you think you are only using the topsbeet.

With that in mind, good luck with your project.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Tibhar Inca
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3v56yahoocom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 1:03pm
I'm liking my Victas VS>401 more and more. It isn't sticky at all but it's very, very grippy. I'm able to brush loop with it. Give it a try!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 1:25pm
Yes, the Victas sounds like it would pair very well with my fast stiff blade, due to its linearity and late kicking in catapult effect. My local shop offers it for testing as well, so that makes things easy :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3v56yahoocom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 1:43pm
Keep in mind that the sponge on VS>401 is very hard if you are used to T05 or MX-P.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 2:41pm
Do you have a reliable source for the sponge hardness in degree?
The three sources I found say 50, 57, and 60.
Hard like a brick, yet so many people seem to love it - even for looping on their backhand!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3v56yahoocom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 3:31pm
I'm not sure of the sponge durometer. I know it is harder than their "Double Extra" sponge.

For those who like the old-fashioned DHS Hurricane sponge from 10 years ago, they will find the VS>401 sponge lovely
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 3:48pm
Guess what, only victas japanese website shows the hardness values for the rubbers.
VS>401 = 57,5deg (var. max 3 deg)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3v56yahoocom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 4:30pm
How do these degrees relate to those used by other brands? I have a Rasant PowerGrip which is marketed at 50 degrees, and my 41 degree Hurricane 3 is much harder.
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-BBC 1 ply Cypress 10mm "The Castigator"
-H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.1mm 41 deg.
-H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.10mm 37 deg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 6:04pm
Yes, DHS uses a different scale: DHS + 13 deg = Any other brand deg.
But: Only a good approximaton for 39,40,41 deg DHS rubbers. (because nonlinear correlation)

Your H3 is therefore actually 54 deg.


Edited by Hozuki - 04/18/2017 at 6:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3v56yahoocom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 6:08pm
I don't think table tennis manufacturers use a standardized scaling for sponge hardness... so, it's hard to cross compare the advertised numbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 7:34pm
They are using standardized scales. There are just more than one standardized scales.
These scales are named after their inventor shore, and they range from shore A to shore O.

To my knowledge, only those two shores are currently being used.
DHS, Butterfly and Nittaku use Shore A, while ESN rubbers, Donic, Andro, Palio and Yasaka use Shore O.
These scales have nonlinear correlation, so unless you use a converter, it is maybe only 90% accurate. But of course you can cross compare those rubbers. And if the manufacturer writes hardness: hard & 39 deg, then it's not execptionally difficult to guess what shore it is referring to. At least if one posseses average brain functionality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p3v56yahoocom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2017 at 8:07pm
Hozuk, thanks for pointing that out!  It's good info!

The DHS 39 degree sponge I bought 10 years ago was harder than the DHS 39 degree sponge today.  I don't know if it has to do with a different scale being used or the quality control being that bad...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 6:07am
you are welcome :)
yes dhs has had big QC issues in the past and there was also a time when they sold the topsheet seperately, so fakes with cheap sponges were a common issue. and hardness labeling is still not available for all their products.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2017 at 8:48pm
The same amount of force? Yeah, unlikely.
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