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Jun Mizutani serves |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 04/17/2017 at 7:26am |
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Always knew that Mizutani had good serves, but I just gained a tremendous amount of respect for his serves after watching this video. Look at the insane kicks that his serves have, it would be an absolute nightmare for any opponent... |
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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Nothing special. Sidespin serves are easy to read.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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I don't think Jun's serve is that easy to read...
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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When I serve backspin, people read it as backspin, doesn't mean they don't put it in the net anyways.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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As soon as you are on the other side of a serve from a professional player -- any professional player really -- you suddenly see that things are not so easy to read as it seems like it should be. Any player in the top 10 in the world? Their serves are special. Always.
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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I played doubles against Karakasevic several years ago and let me tell you it was damn hard to return his serves! Like Baal said, when you're out there with a professional player it's not as easy as it looks.
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heavyspin
Gold Member Joined: 08/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1533 |
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The best serves I probably faced were from CNT player Wei Quinquang when hidden serves were allowed. Holy smokes! He was lefty and hid the contact with his body. The ball came out like it was shot from a robopong speed level 10, either to the left corner or extreme angle wide right. By the time your brain could react to which side, it was too late. Even when I returned his serve, it only set up an easy 3rd ball. That experience provided me with more insight for the rationale behind the hidden serve rule. I also recall a North American teams tournament where a Chinese player (forget his name) known for his serves faced a mere mortal USA player in an early round. I was amazed that a 2000 level player could misread a backspin serve so badly that the ball bounced twice before reaching the net.
Edited by heavyspin - 04/18/2017 at 12:03pm |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I have tried to return Thomas Keinath's serves. They look straightforward. They aren't! There is a funny video at Table Tennis Daily where Dan (who is a really solid player) tried to see how many of 10 of Per Gerell's serves he could even return on the other side of the table (and we are not talking about a good return). I think the number ended up 2 or 3.
I've returned serves from many high level American players (who aren't anywhere near the level of top pros in the world). All of these guys who have been 2500+ have incredibly deceptive serves I think. The nastiest from an American resident was lefty Viktor Subonj in the hidden serve era, which was about the way Heavyspin just described. The ball would emerge from somewhere under his arm and he could put it anywhere on the table, fast or slow, with a whole range of spins. The hidden serve rule hurt him a lot, he had to change his whole motion. In those days, I spent a lot of time working with him to learn to do that. And just like that, poof! No more. The thing about JM's serves is you don't have the luxury of guessing the spin after they have bounced on your side of the table 2 or 3 times, you have to get it right in real time after the first bounce, keep it low and put it in the right place where he isn't winning the point on the very next shot. Also, while looking from the front where all the disguise is, not from the back. Yeah, there is a lot of sidespin on some of them, but what else is there? That is what will make you mess up. |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Most players add sidespin in serves for 2 main reasons: (1) to make serve short and more important (2) to disguise (side-) topspin and (side-) backspin serves better by making their trajectories seem more similar.
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ttTurkey
Silver Member Joined: 09/07/2010 Status: Offline Points: 516 |
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I think there are a couple of other important factors. It limits the placement options of the returner (without taking risks) and makes the likely return spots more predictable. Some people are also more susceptible to sidespin in one direction rather than the other, which is why I think it is so useful to have both the pendulum and reverse pendulum serve. I know I hated the short reverse pendulum to my forehand |
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qpskfec
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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Someone posted a video of Brian Pace versus Fang Bo a while back.
Pace dumped about half of Fang's serves into the net. One serve receive landed about two feet short of the net. It shows the huge jump in serve quality at the top of the game. |
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TTHOUSTON
Super Member Joined: 07/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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I read some article some where before, the Chinese player like to serve short and side top spin often than underspin. The reason they like serve short and side topspin because the opponent can't return short and they ready to attack the third ball. Trying to copy the professional serve we always look at the back his serve then we can read the spin and motion more easier than in the front and that is a reason why you see Mizutani always practice serve short and side topspin more than underspin.
Edited by TTHOUSTON - 04/22/2017 at 11:18am |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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I think it depends on the opponent... against a player with a dangerous BH banana flip, serving side-topspin could be an invitation for trouble. He does practice a lot of side-underspin serves too in the video (the ones that jump back to the net!). There is a significant difference in trajectories between his side-under and side-topspin serves. I also wonder why he doesn't use his hook serve more often in actual matches, it looks pretty solid to me.
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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This is what I follow. If you want to 3rd ball attack regularly then these spinny short side-topspin serves are amazing. Obviously the fact that these new balls are less spinny means that the serves lose a bit of their spin, but that does make the 3rd ball easier to execute / more reproducible to loop or slap. If someone's good enough that they can win a hefty chunk of points against me if I'm opening proceedings with a loop, chances are I'm totally outclassed and won't win anyways [or i'm playing a chopper, in which case its a wash] For everyone else, well, no-one likes being smashed and looped to the face! |
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