|
|
Is Tenergy factory boosted? |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 04/28/2017 at 11:46am |
|
I can tell is boosted because I know that some top player from asia was selling a bottle with butterfly booster in the us open I dont have pics but is was small metal bottle believe or not its up to you but i know that donic and nittaku have their own booster too both are odorless.everybody I know who play at german 2nd 3rd league is aware that even junior and cadets play with boosters ask yourself why tenergy sponge feels oily |
||
Sponsored Links | ||
benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The fact that some rubbers come out factory boosted does not mean all rubbers are that way, even if they perform similarly. You can find three different cars with similar gas mileage, but one will be electric, one will be gas-only, and one will be hybrid. Technology provides many different routes to similar results. I've glued a lot of sheets of Tenergy and spent some time picking apart the trim pieces that are left over from gluing. I've never seen anything oily or anything to suggest that it's factory boosted. I would want to see either an admission from Butterfly or someone present scientific evidence. Otherwise, I think we're just hearing alt-facts for a post-truth spin.
|
||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rich215,
The title of this thread is "Is Tenergy factory boosted?" Do you know for certain that Tenergy is one of the most of the rubbers you claim to be factory boosted? There seems to be some dispute among members of this forum as to whether or not this is so. For my own part, I do not give a floating pomegranate which modern sponges are factory boosted and which are not. I switched back to playing hardbat from (gasp!) speed glued inverted rubber in 1997. You don't need to boost or tune the rubber on a hardbat, and you certainly don't need to pay Tenergy prices for your rubber. Rhetoric? Sarcasm? Oh heavens to Betsy yes. Boosting a rubber, whether by Falco Revolution number 653 or anything else continues to bias the sport in favor of attack and IMHO isn't really needed if you're a world class player who would still have plenty of game (presumably) without recourse to using this stuff, be it built into most modern sponge as you state or whether you have to marinate your weapon of not yet mass destruction with Haifu seamoon or dianchi or whatever.
Edited by berndt_mann - 04/27/2017 at 4:20pm |
||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||
bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
if rakza 9 comes boosted out of the package why not tenergy?. |
||
Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Rhetoric ......or do you actually not know that most all modern sponges are boosted during production? |
||
|
||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Holy Hurricane! Is Tenergy factory boosted or is it isn't factory boosted so if you want that wonderful boosting effect you gotta do the job yourself?
When I read all this stuff about to boost or not to boost: that is the question, I think of those television ads for drugs that treat everything from Crohn's disease to psoriasis to depression that show a lot of happy people testifying to the benefits of Gertruda or Elixiban or whatever and then an unseen voice is heard describing the possible side effects, varying from bad breath to diarrhea to death. Does Tenergy die a horrible glassy death if after using it for a while you don't boost it? Does the sponge eventually behave as though you dipped it into an Everglades swamp? Does anyone know of any player who committed hara-kiri after discovering his Tenergy went bust? Has Tenergy been approved by the Food and Drug Administration? Never mind the food; we are talking chemical city here. No wonder this rubber costs so freakin' much per sheet. It's a pharmaceutical nightmare.
|
||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||
cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6895 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The Dome you get when the sponges are put on warm is a reverse Dome. mostly you see that in Chinese rubbers
I think tenergy plays like there's an oil of some sort in the sponge |
||
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
||
igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Q. Just unpacked rubber gets curved. Was it factory-treated with some booster?
A. No, This does not always bespeak presence of factory boosters. Once had a talk with a man employee to the rubber manufactury. He suggested the just-baked sponge sheet would shrink by 5-10% in every direction after a while. Just vulcanized sheet of sponge is liable to have a week's rest before the top-sheet attached. Once you glue the rubber and sponge sheets together too early, the ultimate sandwich sheet will get domed with sponge inwards. ----------- If my memory serves me right, something like year 2010, The representative of Butterfly technical stuff was interviewed by the German DTTB magazine
Edited by igorponger - 04/25/2017 at 11:31pm |
||
notfound123
Gold Member Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Personally the reason I reglue my FH side after 1.5-2 months is I do believe the sponge degrades over time due to all the stresses and hits.. By removing and reglueing it sort of resets the sponge in/around the sweet spot and it behaves much better for another few weeks. I've never witnessed it shrink in any way if it was applied gently. |
||
AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Maybe. Lots of modern Butterfly rubbers have a slight curl when new, so something tension-y is going on (I'm glad the tension police aren't around these days). But regardless, if we accept tenergy shrinks (and I know not everyone does) then something is degrading over time.
|
||
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
|
||
AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I would say that it just says that whatever ESN do to MX-P is more short-lived in comparison to whatever Butterfly do to Tenergy. They could both be "factory boosted" (with Butterfly having the "better" method), depending on how you define it, or neither. Another thing to bear in mind is that ESN have for the most part moved on from the MX-P days. Their newer rubbers don't have the same obvious smell, and don't shrink as noticeably. So would we say that (picking something from the air), Omega V Europe or Acuda Blue P2 aren't factory boosted? Back to the semantics thing, this way madness lies - you end up with a broad spectrum of how likely things are to fit the definition you hold. There is too much guesswork involved to be anywhere close to sure about this, but I find it interesting how sure people can be. I suspect some sort of bias where Butterfly is some sort of spotless white knight of the industry, and "factory boosting" is a dirty term (just a way of the ITTF getting more cash and hurting the everyday player etc etc), so they can't be doing that naughty thing, and so on.
|
||
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
|
||
jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I wonder if the shrinkage has something to do with the high tension process over time and not from boosting?
|
||
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
|
||
AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think the opinions are interesting, but the subject itself is not. I'll lay it out. And I'm not quoting you in order to single you out at all, just continuing the discussion. I've had tenergy shrink. It's great that you haven't, but I have. There are a few possible reasons why it's happened to me and not you. Tenergy smells of something, as most things tend to do, and I can't say if it smells of something used to expand the sponge or not, but it doesn't smell like, for example, sriver. There could be any number of reasons for that, but some oils used to expand the sponge are odorless so relying on smell isn't a good approach to rule it out. For sure, if tenergy could be considered "boosted", it lasts a whole lot longer than other rubbers which fit the definition, so well done BTY, yay. So let's look at MX-P. The smell is more obvious, because it matches a known booster. It shrinks, faster than tenergy. I've NEVER heard of Evolution setting a detector off, and I'd be amazed if that were true after all the effort ESN have put in to tell everyone that their rubbers are VOC-free after the glue ban, but crazier things have happened I suppose. I think that's all I can say for sure (and of course people have their own personal experiences that can contradict any of these points). But if your (and perhaps the) definition of factory boosted is that something is applied after the rubber is stuck together, then unless you (or someone else) knows what goes on in the ESN and Butterfly factories then you're stuck. Why would anyone assume that the two factories use different methodologies? What have you seen in MX-P that makes you think that the process happened after the topsheet was attached, but before in the case of tenergy? Because I think it's just as likely that ESN expand the sponge before the topsheet goes on. I can't see anything that suggests one way or the other, in either case, so it seems to be pure guesswork. And guesswork is fine, but the interesting bit for me is that people are REALLY sure one way or the other. I don't think anyone can be called "wrong" in this thread apart from people who try to state something as fact. I don't think you've done that. But anyway, if we take your definition as the gospel for the purposes of the next paragraph then neither MX-P or tenergy are factory boosted because we don't know how the "booster" is applied by ESN - before or after the topsheet is attached. They could easily be using the booster during the sponge manufacturing process to expand the pores, and that's the end of it. Or if we say that MX-P is boosted, why aren't we applying the same rigor (meaning imaginative guesswork) to tenergy? At best we could say that it's better factory boosted because whatever they've done lasts longer. And this is why it's a semantic argument for me, based on what I've seen. But if someone had never seen tenergy shrink, then I can understand why they might lean in the other direction.
|
||
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
|
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In which case it is in very marked contrast to Evolution or any booster that we apply ourselves, and therefore suggests that the speed glue effect in Tenergy is produced by a different process that would not be something we would call boosting per se (even if it produces a speed glue effect0. |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
No it's not. Since you quoted me, I have been repeatedly VERY clear about how I define factory boosting on this thread (I've made it clear in several comments). The word boosting has always meant painting various coats of an oil-based substance on the sponge (like BioBooster or Haifu oil) and waiting some days before attaching. Therefore "factory boosting" must mean that the factory does basically the same thing, AFTER the topsheet and sponge are attached. I think nearly everybody interprets the phrase that way. I've also said that I don't know for certain what Butterfly does to give Tenergy a speed glue effect. However, the reasons why I strongly suspect it is not factory boosting per se are (1) lack of shrinkage in my experience (not even once between 2008-2017 did I have a Tenergy shrink on my blade or after removal), (2) lack of characteristic booster smell in marked contrast to Bluefire and Evolution, (3) stability of the playing properties relative to rubbers like Evolution and Bluefire and (4) the fact (or so I am told) that brand new sheets of Tenergy won't set off a VOC detector and Evolution will. I know it's not entirely definitive and my suspicion could be wrong. But I think the evidence as things stand now makes my theory more plausible than the alternative. And as for whether the discussion is important, well it is interesting and you have participated a lot. |
||
AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Another possible explanation for the varying responses on this thread.
|
||
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
|
||
Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2332 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
My own experience is that there was a period when Tenergy did shrink. I did nothing different in applying the rubber and the next set did not shrink.
Maybe there was a bad batch, or Bty were experimenting. I've bought about 6 T05 in the last year or so and no shrinking problems. this despite moving them between blades for EJ purposes.. Edited by Tinykin - 04/25/2017 at 1:40pm |
||
Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
||
AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'll offer one possibility then - 2 months isn't enough. I used to use my tenergy for a period of 6-9 months before switching them around, and I would have noticeable shrinkage. I also think the number of hours you use the sheet for matters - this isn't just a matter of a rubber being exposed to air and gradually shrinking (although I'm sure that happens - it's just very slow in tenergy's case) - deforming the sponge through use will be having an effect. About the rolling/stretching idea - the way I cut first with a slight overlap and glue later removes this possibility. Unless you're saying that the physical action of stretching the rubber causes shrinkage through some destructive effect, but I don't think that's what you mean. This is mostly a semantic argument. The only thing I find interesting is that people think the discussion is important and are really sure one way or the other without defining precisely what "factory boosted" means and without knowing what butterfly, or anyone else, do in the factory. I've seen red flags over the years with tenergy but I wouldn't state with any surety what actually goes on. I like to think that the "magic" goes on when the pores are formed in the sponge (not particularly bothered about the topsheet or where it is), and that magic gradually fades. How that's done I don't know, but it will involve chemicals because (shocker) everything is a chemical, so for me the sponge is tuned during manufacture. That might stretch the definition for some, but I don't care. And yes, that means any porous sponge could potentially fall into the same basket, so they all are or none are.
Edited by AndySmith - 04/25/2017 at 1:47pm |
||
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
|
||
adishorul
Super Member Joined: 08/19/2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 368 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Tenergy is not factory boosted, for regular players would be too much, but for professional players boosting is a must. Talking about differences between red and black rubber is well-known the color of the topsheet makes the difference in elasticity, spin and the way rubber is reacting to incoming spin, not the sponge as somebody tried to suggest.
Edited by adishorul - 04/25/2017 at 1:30pm |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That was my experience too, for many years. However some people on this thread disagree with this and I don't know why. I honestly don't think Tenergy is factory boosted in the way most people interpret that phrase -- meaning specifically that a chemical expander is applied to the sponge at the factory after the top sheet and sponge are glued together. In other words, the factory is doing something similar (legally according to ITTF) to what a player might do at home with Haifu or Biobooster (illegal according to ITTF). I think it is quite clear that this is part of the secret to Evolution MX-P for example. The smell alone is a dead giveaway. Bear in mind that by this definition, a "speed glue effect" rubber like Tenergy does not need to be "factory boosted". I think it gets its effects by some unique way they make the sponge, and that whatever they are doing the effect is substantially more stable, but of course will still degrade at some point. In any case, whatever it is they do, I think it results in a rubber that maintains its playing properties better than most of its competitors, although that may now be changing with ESN's latest offerings. I have the feeling that the gap between ESN's rubbers and Tenergy (as they would be assessed by Tenergy lovers) is narrowing a bit each year. |
||
notfound123
Gold Member Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Tenergy does NOT shrink if you roll it on gently and avoid stretching it.
I just reglued a 2-month old sheet which I removed yesterday and left unglued overnight... still fits perfectly.
|
||
jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Boosters expand the sponge so as the booster evaporates the sponge should shrink? It will be easy to measure. Many have claimed Tenergy shrinks after glued the first time. I have a few new sheets I just received the other day . They are in the newer Tenergy package so its not that old.
Edited by jpenmaster - 04/25/2017 at 11:23am |
||
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
|
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Certainly regular booster evaporates, so if Tenergy is getting performance that way (which I think is clearly true for MX-P) then it should evaporate. Would that make it shrink though?
|
||
jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Does everyone think that the booster evaporates? If so the rubber should shrink? I can bring a new sheet of T05 to work and measure it on a granite plate in a few spots and then re-measure the same spots in a week or 2 to see if it has shrunk.
|
||
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
|
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
Medicine and biology. You are right about color.
|
||
Bran
Super Member Joined: 06/18/2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 367 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's much simpler to exclude the possible effect of rubber colour by exclusively using red or black rubbers, rather than mixing in both red and black rubbers. This halves the number of combinations. It's safe to assume whatever treatment is applied to black rubbers is also applied to red ones. But your protocol assumes all new sheets are identical, while some may have been sitting on the shelf for much longer than others.
Your approach makes me think you come from a field related to medicine or biology, or social sciences… Edited by Bran - 04/25/2017 at 7:21am |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Maybe but see my response to slevin above on the right way to check this. |
||
jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just curious how there could be a difference if it sits out of the package for a few days when Tenergy is open to the air in its package anyway.
|
||
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
|
||
kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I don't feel it is but that effect on the mark v topsheet is unusual. i mean i've layed tenergy on top of another for minibats and that didn't happen. are you sure you hadn't boosted your tenergy or leftover booster on your brush? :P
|
||
Viscaria
H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
||
SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If only Butterfly could just make Tenergy 05 with a harder sponge during production then boost it to it's current hardness. I'm guessing there would be some kind of durability/non-linearity issue with that though, as well as the fact that quite of a lot of club players can't even handle regular, non-boosted Tenergy.
|
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |