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Is Tenergy factory boosted?

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    Posted: 04/19/2017 at 8:49pm
Is Tenergy factory boosted?

We don't know, but at least  a few experienced forum members (who regularly use T05) say that it isn't (unlike ESN rubbers).

About six months ago (when I unsuccessfully tried moving to T05 both sides) I tried this experiment:

I needed to put new T05 on both sides of a blade. So, I unwrapped the packaging of one T05 sheet (intended for the BH side) and left it out for 3 days. After 3 days, I assembled the racket (with 1 T05 right out of the package and the other uncut / unglued but 3 day old).

The side that was right out of the package clearly played much more dynamic than the other side.

Does that imply factory boosting or is it something else?




Edited by slevin - 04/19/2017 at 8:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 10:32pm
Let me take a wild guess in the dark, was the one that played less dynamic a red sheet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 10:38pm
No. My red sheets are, on average, a bit harder than the black sheets (for both T05 & MX-P). So, I generally use black on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 10:41pm
It could be the deterioration of the bubbles sponge.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It could be the deterioration of the bubbles sponge.


Don't understand what you mean. The 'open T05 was most likely recently made (it had new style packaging).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2017 at 11:04pm
Tenergy. Use Fresh.
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+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 12:04am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It could be the deterioration of the bubbles sponge.


Don't understand what you mean. The 'open T05 was most likely recently made (it had new style packaging).

Maybe the bubbled sponge begins to deteriorate once outside the packaging.  That's what I mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 12:11am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Tenergy. Use Fresh.


I microwave mine for 30 seconds, for that extra crispy feel

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 12:57am
I think it is, because new tenergy sponges dome quite a bit if you hold them at the center. But when I reglue them after a while, they're not nearly as "springy" or flexible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 1:43am
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

I think it is, because new tenergy sponges dome quite a bit if you hold them at the center. But when I reglue them after a while, they're not nearly as "springy" or flexible. 


most people are unaware that there s butterfly booster donic and nittaku ,they give their sponsored the same booster used to manufacture the rubber

Edited by bbkon - 04/20/2017 at 2:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 6:50am
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Tenergy. Use Fresh.


I microwave mine for 30 seconds, for that extra crispy feel



Delicious with a side of bacon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 7:47am
I have used Tenergy for long time and it is not tuned chemically . It plays a little bouncier for the first hour but breaks in after that. Butterfly use to sell a tuned rubber it was called power sponge and came in an aluminum foil bag. It smelled so strong I still remember it .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt-panopticum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 11:08am
Hi all,
the question probably is more along the line, what is considered factory tuned or boosted ?
Does it really make sense to differentiate all the modern "pre tensioned" rubbers (regardless which brand specific terminology) from other so called factory tuned or boosted rubbers?

I'm not a polymer engineer, neither I do have a chemical background of any sorts, but I don't believe
that those modern rubbers are possible without a solid chemical influence.....
Personally I  would consider Tenergy as somehow boosted - most likely even more than some others - more specifically I'd think the topsheet treatement is what it makes so different to most of the competitors. The following I learned by coincidence ....

This is a cut off from a classical Mark V :



This is a piece I punched out from the remains of a fresh Tenergy 05:



That is, what's happening after leaving the round piece of Tenergy (contact of topsheet to topsheet) for about 10 hours:



As you can see, some secret stuff made the Mark V topsheet swallowing impressively, just like any typical booster would do. There must be some stuff wandering from one to the other (possibly by some v.d. Waals forces) creating this effect....
Probably the ne or the other already had the same experience when accidentaly leaving a Tenergy on some classical rubber bat - at least this was what I did, resulting in some really ugly looking sriver.....;-)
The last time I mentioned this, I was called crazy and "what did you smoke".....
As said, I'm not an engineer, but that's my impression and anyone could do the same test .

Best regards!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 11:14am
Did you try the same test but with the sponge side of the T05 on top of the rubber side of the MarkV?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 11:28am
Mizutani would be shocked to learn that he has been "boosting" all along.
Viscaria FL - 91g
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= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 11:46am
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

I have used Tenergy for long time and it is not tuned chemically.

Based on what? Chemical analysis? Or just your gut feeling?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 11:52am
No chemical booster smell. Plays the same over months of use and no shrinkage. Plus I have boosted my Tenergy before and know what boosted Tenergy plays like.

Edited by jpenmaster - 04/20/2017 at 11:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

No chemical booster smell. Plays the same over months of use and no shrinkage. Plus I have boosted my Tenergy before and know what boosted Tenergy plays like.

+1, I hit with someone's racket that had 4 year old tenergy, and surprised by how decent they played, that is durability closing on the levels of Mark v
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Did you try the same test but with the sponge side of the T05 on top of the rubber side of the MarkV?


That is exactly what the pictures show......T05 sponge changing top sheet of MarkV.


Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

No chemical booster smell. Plays the same over months of use and no shrinkage. Plus I have boosted my Tenergy before and know what boosted Tenergy plays like.


There is some sort of tuning or conditioning in Tenergy sponge.  It shrinks a lot when you use it for awhile and remove it.  This is not from any physical tension....its chemical or other changing element of the sponge.  If it was from physical tension...after good amount of use the rubber would not shrink...it would stay the same or expand from relaxing. 

Also, sure you can boost Tenergy with what ever "booster/tuners" you have.  But that is most likely not close to what Butterfly uses to "condition" the sponge. 



Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:


+1, I hit with someone's racket that had 4 year old tenergy, and surprised by how decent they played, that is durability closing on the levels of Mark v


Maybe for play performance....not for physical build quality.  Tenergy edges chip easy....MarkV edges are super tuff because of natural rubber content. 






Edited by Rich215 - 04/20/2017 at 1:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 2:16pm
My tenergy have always shrunk after removal from the blade, although I haven't used a new sheet for over 12 months now.  I'm always surprised when forum people say theirs don't shrink - mine always have, and I hear it from other users at the club too.  My rubber gluing process is such that I don't stretch the rubber as I stick it down, so it isn't that.

The rubber as a whole does have a specific smell - not unpleasant, not like any booster I've ever seen, but nothing like an older model like sriver.  I've always thought the smell is like pine, or almond, or something along those lines.  Honestly - if you can't smell it, check your nose out for blockages like Arnie in Total Recall.



Or maybe ask a doctor, I dunno.

I think they're expanded in the factory via some process.  Who knows if you could call it tuning or boosting?  It's just part of how they make the rubber IMO.  Perhaps part of how the pores are introduced to the sponge, or perhaps how they are inflated as the topsheet is added, or whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt-panopticum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Did you try the same test but with the sponge side of the T05 on top of the rubber side of the MarkV?


That is exactly what the pictures show......T05 sponge changing top sheet of MarkV.


Well,....no, the picture shows the reaction topsheet on topsheet contact. That's what surprised me as well and made me think about it a lot. But makes perfect sense - Tenergy is the only rubber where
every single pimple pops out visually , even when not glued to blade.  Typically this happens only to well boosted rubbers after glueing to blade. To me there's only one logical explanation for this - the topsheet is full of this stuff.
But to answer the other posters question, almost the same reaction when Tenergy sponge to topsheet of classical rubber contact.

To me it's more or less semanthics how to call it - but to expect this characteristic without chemical
help is a bit naive. I'm pretty sure one could say Btfy has some superior method, especially in regards of lifetime, but to deny the existance of chemical ingredients , well .....

BTW, my son, who I'd call an advanced player, uses at least two sheets of Tenergy/month - changing even more often for important matches. 
I'd agree it can play much longer pretty well - maybe better than some others, but performance is not closed to a fresh sheet. It depends on playing level and demand.....







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by tt-panopticum tt-panopticum wrote:

Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Did you try the same test but with the sponge side of the T05 on top of the rubber side of the MarkV?


That is exactly what the pictures show......T05 sponge changing top sheet of MarkV.


Well,....no, the picture shows the reaction topsheet on topsheet contact. That's what surprised me as well and made me think about it a lot. But makes perfect sense - Tenergy is the only rubber where
every single pimple pops out visually , even when not glued to blade.  Typically this happens only to well boosted rubbers after glueing to blade. To me there's only one logical explanation for this - the topsheet is full of this stuff.
But to answer the other posters question, almost the same reaction when Tenergy sponge to topsheet of classical rubber contact.

To me it's more or less semanthics how to call it - but to expect this characteristic without chemical
help is a bit naive. I'm pretty sure one could say Btfy has some superior method, especially in regards of lifetime, but to deny the existance of chemical ingredients , well .....

BTW, my son, who I'd call an advanced player, uses at least two sheets of Tenergy/month - changing even more often for important matches. 
I'd agree it can play much longer pretty well - maybe better than some others, but performance is not closed to a fresh sheet. It depends on playing level and demand.....





What I don't understand then is the stability of the rubber.  Why doesn't it evaporate away, and why doesn't it set of VOC detectors?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt-panopticum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


What I don't understand then is the stability of the rubber.  Why doesn't it evaporate away, and why doesn't it set of VOC detectors?

I'd say that's part of the secret - and the superior BTFY tech-advantage at the moment....

I've also not found any other rubber topsheet reacting this way when in direct contact to other(non tensioned) rubber topsheet. 
BTW, I routinely store the blade in plastic -bag. After this experience I always cover both topsheets with card to avoid direct contact with plastic to topsheet. Plastic bag before significantly changed in direct contact (like one would expect through some sort of chemical softener) - the card sheets are my attempt to protect the rubber from this direct contact as paper isn't prone to this effect....

Something is evaporating even with Tenergy - if you occasionally find some packed sheets with longer shelf life - there's a considerable "smear" inside the transparent cover....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jasonh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 6:54pm
I have heard that Haifu Whale 2 would cause similar "rashes" on other rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crowsfeather Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2017 at 10:31pm
Some distributor open Tenergy/Evolution package to air-dry before assemble it lose booster condition but less shrinking when removed. 

I don't like this method. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2017 at 12:44am
Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Did you try the same test but with the sponge side of the T05 on top of the rubber side of the MarkV?



That is exactly what the pictures show......T05 sponge changing top sheet of MarkV.


Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

No chemical booster smell. Plays the same over months
of use and no shrinkage. Plus I have boosted my Tenergy before and know
what boosted Tenergy plays like.



There is some sort of tuning or conditioning in Tenergy sponge.  It shrinks a lot when you use it for awhile and remove it.  This is not from any physical tension....its chemical or other changing element of the sponge.  If it was from physical tension...after good amount of use the rubber would not shrink...it would stay the same or expand from relaxing. 

Also, sure you can boost Tenergy with what ever "booster/tuners" you have.  But that is most likely not close to what Butterfly uses to "condition" the sponge. 



Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:


+1,
I hit with someone's racket that had 4 year old tenergy, and surprised
by how decent they played, that is durability closing on the levels of
Mark v



Maybe for play performance....not for physical build quality.  Tenergy edges chip easy....MarkV edges are super tuff because of natural rubber content. 







i know a player who was in the worlds team and got one used rubber sheet from muramatsu and had some chemical smell on it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2017 at 11:27am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:



i know a player who was in the worlds team and got one used rubber sheet from muramatsu and had some chemical smell on it


Which probably just means that he boosts it, which shouldn't surprise anyone.  Normally it just has the smell of rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2017 at 11:34am
Originally posted by tt-panopticum tt-panopticum wrote:


Something is evaporating even with Tenergy - if you occasionally find some packed sheets with longer shelf life - there's a considerable "smear" inside the transparent cover....


I'm still not convinced, but who knows. I don't personally have secret knowledge or a definitive answer.  Still, I suspect Tenergy performance has a lot to do with the nature of the way they get the large pores in the sponge and the way the top sheet is matched to the sponge.  So it provides some "speed glue effect" -- sort of.  Depending on things, I suppose it could shrink, but I very much suspect it is something distinctly different from the way ESN gets high performance out of Evolution MX-P (for example).  In that case I am really sure that ESN are simply treating the sponge with what is basically the same kind of booster anyone can buy, which is what I think most people mean by "factory boosting".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2017 at 11:37am
This post seems strange to me. This rubber has been out almost 10 years and now people think it is has some secret special tuner that lasts the whole life of the rubber and can't be detected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2017 at 11:42am
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

This post seems strange to me. This rubber has been out almost 10 years and now people think it is has some secret special tuner that lasts the whole life of the rubber and can't be detected.


Not only some chemical that lasts the life of the rubber, BUT which still can evaporate enough to affect an adjacent rubber, AND YET, which cannot be detected by instruments designed to detect VOC; instruments that are sensitive enough to respond to ESN rubbers that have not aired out for a few days before the tournament!.  In basic chemistry there is something called the "Law of Mass Action that would seem to be violated here.

Like I said, I don't have all the answers, but I'm not buying this one.
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