Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Custom ZLC blade wood choice
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Custom ZLC blade wood choice
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Custom ZLC blade wood choice
    Posted: 04/24/2017 at 6:47pm
If you could build an innerforce type zlc blade what wood veneer combo would you use?
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
tiehwen View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/22/2006
Location: Bukan Bumiputra
Status: Offline
Points: 6434 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2017 at 7:06pm
my 1st choice would be dark limba Big smile then Koto.
I love & am inspired by Malala Yousufzai's "True & Tough" LIFE STORY
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2017 at 7:25pm
I want to build myself a few blades so I have black limba, koto,and spruce veneers. I have ayous and balsa cores plus a few yards of Textreme ZLC . The zylon/carbon is the same company who makes the Stiga carbonado carbon weave.

Edited by jpenmaster - 04/24/2017 at 7:27pm
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
aeoliah View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 11/18/2005
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 3215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2017 at 11:38pm
Hi, you are going to make the blade by yourself ? Thumbs Up
Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen
Rasanter C48
Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2219 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 1:16am
I have tested (much too) much blades in the last years and I have had the best experiences with two combinations: 
  1. a (relatively) hard and thin (<= 0,5 mm) outer veneer combined with a softer second veneer, for example a thin koto layer combined with a thicker spruce veneer or 
  2. a (relatively) soft and thick (>= 0,8 mm) outer veneer combined with a harder second veneer, for example limba combined with mahagoni or koto or hinoki combined with mahagoni or carbon
Therefore it depends on the thickness of your veneers, which combination should be the best.

For the core personally I don`t really like balsa with one exception: a thin balsa-core combined with a hard composite layer directly over the core. Otherwise I clearly prefer ayous or kiri for the core.
  1. dark limba - koto - ayous - koto - dark limba (without composite layer)
  2. koto - spruce (thick) - zlc - ayous - zlc - spruce (thick) - koto



Edited by Magic_M - 04/25/2017 at 1:17am
My Feedback
Back to Top
aeoliah View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 11/18/2005
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 3215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 4:06am
Hi Magic_M, may I know why you don't like balsa core ? Is it the sound or performance ?
Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen
Rasanter C48
Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2219 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 8:55am
A balsa core makes the blade bouncy and non-linear. The thicker the core, the bouncier is the blade. Therefore a 7-ply blade with a thin balsa core (like Tibhar Illusion Killer) is a good solution.
My Feedback
Back to Top
Jasonh View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/08/2015
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 184 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jasonh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 2:58pm
I just received a blade from an eBay seller from Lithuania featuring a structure similar to Magic_M's "koto spruce basalt ayous", haven't tried it out yet.
Fly away!
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:15pm
The veneer place I use has some really nice white ash in right now. Looks like I will try these 2 first and see how it goes. Going to start out with a 3mm core .

Koto/Spruce/ZLC/Ayous/ZLC/Spruce/Koto

Limba/Spruce/ZLC/Ayous/ZLC/Spruce/Limba



Edited by jpenmaster - 04/25/2017 at 3:16pm
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:22pm
White ash




Here is the zylon / carbon I purchased


Edited by jpenmaster - 04/25/2017 at 3:23pm
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:26pm
jpenmaster - whatever you decide to make, make an extra one for forum members to test.  I won't do the testing (not playing much atm, but would love to read review form others.
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:31pm
I will pass out my rejects lol. I just need to remember to make one anatomic....
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
tiehwen View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/22/2006
Location: Bukan Bumiputra
Status: Offline
Points: 6434 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

jpenmaster - whatever you decide to make, make an extra one for forum members to test.  I won't do the testing (not playing much atm, but would love to read review form others.
no point to pass on to anyone for test. That blade will disappear after awhile & months & months or even yrs later it will re-surface in the FS section...LOL.
Have we not seen enough or learned any lesson or 2 here?
I love & am inspired by Malala Yousufzai's "True & Tough" LIFE STORY
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:40pm
I like to see a blade with 'White Ash - ZLC - koto - ayous - koto - ZLC - White Ash'.  my reason is that I love White Ash top ply (there not enough blade with it commercially available), I am not a big fan of inner composite.



Edited by mhnh007 - 04/25/2017 at 3:40pm
Back to Top
tom View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3016 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:46pm
"That blade will disappear after awhile & months & months or even yrs later it will re-surface in the FS section...LOL."  even homemade blades ? - sad
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:46pm
I think ayous core will be the best. I like the innerforce blades so keeping the zlc on the core should still give me that wood feel. Limba and spruce seem to be popular middle plies so I might have to experiment a bit. Limba and Koto seem to be the outer veneers of choice. Ash and walnut are other options. I know I have to use epoxy on the zlc layer and I plan to use hide/bone glue on wood to wood. If the hide glue doesn't work I will use titebond. I think i sbould use epoxy or titebond on the handle. I have a small roarockit vacuum press to keep them flat and air pocket free. I am open to suggestions
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

jpenmaster - whatever you decide to make, make an extra one for forum members to test.  I won't do the testing (not playing much atm, but would love to read review form others.
no point to pass on to anyone for test. That blade will disappear after awhile & months & months or even yrs later it will re-surface in the FS section...LOL.
Have we not seen enough or learned any lesson or 2 here?

True, but if I build a blade, I would be flattered if someone would take the time to test it and give me feed back.
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

I think ayous core will be the best. I like the innerforce blades so keeping the zlc on the core should still give me that wood feel. Limba and spruce seem to be popular middle plies so I might have to experiment a bit. Limba and Koto seem to be the outer veneers of choice. Ash and walnut are other options. I know I have to use epoxy on the zlc layer and I plan to use hide/bone glue on wood to wood. If the hide glue doesn't work I will use titebond. I think i sbould use epoxy or titebond on the handle. I have a small roarockit vacuum press to keep them flat and air pocket free. I am open to suggestions

I heard that hide glue is not easy to work with, it can warp the blade, if the gluing and drying process is not done right.
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 4:23pm
That is why I was going to leave it in the vacuum press for at least 24 hours. I think i should epoxy the core/zlz/spruce together press it over night,let it sit for a day then hide glue on the outer veneer and repress it for at least 24 hours. If it warps or is too much trouble I can just use titebond
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
penholderxxx View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/19/2016
Location: Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 451 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 9:26pm
Hi,
 My experience with ordinary white wood glue is very satisfactory.
 I have used this glue when my xiom katana 10 mm split into two. The blade is still good.
 On another occasion, I had also used this glue when I changed the handle pieces of a blade.
 Very good bond, no problem ......so far.
 I do not know if this glue is suitable for zlc or other fabrics though.
 
 penholderxxx
Iloveplayingtabletennis
Back to Top
CraneStyle View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/06/2013
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 786 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 9:33pm
Koto outer on one side, Limba outer on the other side would be interesting...
1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
Back to Top
tiehwen View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/22/2006
Location: Bukan Bumiputra
Status: Offline
Points: 6434 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Koto outer on one side, Limba outer on the other side would be interesting...
darn good idea....Clap
I love & am inspired by Malala Yousufzai's "True & Tough" LIFE STORY
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 1:36pm
Got my Koto and Limba veneers in...Spruce, balsa and ayous are in the mail. I might order some Ash and Maple as well. I think building a real "violin" (maple/spruce/Hide glue) would be interesting. I had a few people ask about where I got my wood. I got most of my veneers from certainly wood. The Balsa cores and Spruce sheets I got from national balsa. The ayous cores came from always hobbies in the UK it is also called Obeche. Roarockit makes the vacuum press I ordered the 26x28 . Elite motoring on ebay sells the ZLC and carbon from Textreme.
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
taczkid View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/19/2016
Location: ILLINOIS
Status: Offline
Points: 487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taczkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 11:56am
try ZLC as your outer layer (lol) it looks too nice to be on the inside
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2017 at 10:08am
This Textreme ZLC is strange. I was expecting a smaller "weave" like regular carbon fiber..
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
Liquid Sky View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/17/2004
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 70 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2017 at 3:33pm
Textreme fabric is a spread tow fabric.
Nebula Custom Blades - Antique Wood
XIOM - Vega Pro (2,0 mm)
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2017 at 10:20am
Got material in for handles. Ironwood is HEAVY!!!
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2017 at 4:13pm
Got my first zlc prototype done.. I need to work on my woodworking skills lol
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2017 at 8:51am
Not sure yet. This one has an ayous core ,limba inner,zlc then Koto outer. I am still trying to figure it all out. This one has a solid handle ,weighs 97 grams and is 6.0mm thick so its a little heavy . I used a really thin Koto veneer and i can just barely feel the zlc weave pattern. I am still experimenting with epoxy on the zlc. First blade i did i used too much and the blade felt like stone this one i used less but not sure how durable it will be. Hopefully I can play with this one tomorrow.
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
jpenmaster View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 12/24/2008
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Points: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 1:03pm
OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.