Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - forearm and wrist snap acceleration
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Coaching & Tips > Coaching & Tips

forearm and wrist snap acceleration

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1813
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: forearm and wrist snap acceleration
    Posted: 04/25/2017 at 8:55am
Creation of spin always comes down to forearm and wrist snap. I feel that my forearm and wrist acceleration is not good enough. Any one has any suggestion on exercise to improve the explosiveness of the acceleration?

I watched NextLevel's videos. It appears that he does not apply much of body motion to create the massive spin. I am wondering how he can do that without using legs.
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3727
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Creation of spin always comes down to forearm and wrist snap. I feel that my forearm and wrist acceleration is not good enough. Any one has any suggestion on exercise to improve the explosiveness of the acceleration?

I watched NextLevel's videos. It appears that he does not apply much of body motion to create the massive spin. I am wondering how he can do that without using legs.

What it comes down to is racket speed and how the ball is contacted/grazed. 

I haven't watched NextLevel's videos, but my bet is that while his leg movement may not be large and obvious, it is nonetheless foundational to supporting things like hip and shoulder rotation that in turn support arm speed and wrist snap.  Think of it all as a kind of whip or chain where each element amplifies the movement of the next.  When all of the elements work together you get high racket speed.  Once you can do that, it's a matter of contacting the ball optimally.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil
Back to Top
maurice101 View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 02/24/2017
Location: australia
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maurice101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 6:18pm
What works for me is to focus on starting the hip rotation before the forearm. The arm straightens from the early hip turn in my stroke and then accelerates to catch up with the body. All top players seem to do this early hip rotation though it can be not obvious. The straightening arm is more seen in the straight arm Chinese forehand motion. Tennis has a similar motion in the forehand.
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 5107
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 7:15pm
Go find a heavy spring-loaded door, and pull open it in a way as swiftly and explosively as possible, making the most efficient use of your body.

The idea is to get your body to feel the generation and use of force of different body parts in collaboration. Due to the hinge, your movement would be guided in a curve, which helps to form your stroke.

Check out this video for some ideas:


Edited by zeio - 04/25/2017 at 7:18pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 13919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 9:29pm
The whole body transfers energy for racket speed when it can. If it can't because time, then forearm and wrist snaps combo is a must. There are situations where we may step in with the playing foot and the only stroke available is the forearm and wrist snaps. Nothing wrong with using that only as long as it's not due to laziness.
Then there is the wrist only...same idea. In the end it's all about racket speed, direction and angle at contact.

Edited by fatt - 04/25/2017 at 11:16pm
rl gear ( •_•)O¯`·.¸.·´¯`°Q(•_•) feedback
Back to Top
DarkerMyLove View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08/23/2016
Location: taiwan
Status: Offline
Points: 40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2017 at 11:46pm
I agree with wturber.  The issue for most is more about 'timing'. If you are going low to high and not getting a ton of spin it could mean you are hitting 'too much' of the ball.  You will need to brush more.  This does not mean you need to do a brush loop where you are hitting more of the top of the ball.  It just means that when you contact the ball, brush it more;  thus getting more spin vs forward movement.

No one can diagnose your particular problem without seeing you play, but even if you are playing at a high level I would still start slow and learn how to vary the snap vs trajectory vs forward movement.  If your focus is only on "how fast can I snap my forearm?" I think you will not get consistent strokes.

It's boring, but all this can be done simply with counter hitting.  Start with a compact swing, don't swing hard--  just vary your timing (brushing) so that you slowly increase the amount of spin: combine forward movement w/ your forearm snap providing the necessary low-to-high movement.  Play around with the amount of forward movement vs the speed of the forearm snap and watch how it changes the spin and trajectory.  

Eventually you should be able to counter hit (staying close to the table) and have the ball clear quite high over the net but your spin keeps it on the table.  If you are already consistent with this, then vary the speed and height over the net.  For any counter hit you should be able to have confidence to hit slow very spinny shots that land deep or land shallow but also for the next 5 balls be able to add more speed and have balls land in the middle of the table.

Focus on the timing and brushing-- and ALWAYS make sure to have a quick recovery after hitting.  If your recovery is too slow then you will always have problems because you will be rushing the stroke and all of this is about timing.
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1813
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 12:41am
I did make some videos about one and a half years ago. Since then, I have made quite some progress and I have deeper understanding of how the looping works.  A couple of years ago, I did not know that to create top spin, you need to hit (brush) the ball from low to high (vertical). I am working to time the moment to have all powers applied at the contact point. I will try to make some videos soon.

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions.
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1813
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 12:43am
Take a look at my avatar. I really like the way the girl in red shirt loops.
Back to Top
MLfan View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/23/2015
Location: China
Status: Offline
Points: 411
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 3:27am
don't forget to "eat" the ball. That's so important. Racket speed and timing don't matter if u can't "eat" the ball. I don't think you can isolate spin to any 2 factors. 

Also, i don't think forearm snap is THAT important. Provided that your fingers are gripping the racket tightly when you hit the ball, I think it's more important for your body to be tight so that power can be transferred from the lower part of your body. Then you "eat" the ball, then produce spin. Fingers and wrist only add "oomph" but the primary movement must come from the rest of the body.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 11499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 8:16am
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Creation of spin always comes down to forearm and wrist snap. I feel that my forearm and wrist acceleration is not good enough. Any one has any suggestion on exercise to improve the explosiveness of the acceleration?

I watched NextLevel's videos. It appears that he does not apply much of body motion to create the massive spin. I am wondering how he can do that without using legs.

It's magic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOY8AqK60c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyCTDQRkPHo

I'm doing what you see in the second video, it's just that I've figured out through practice and experiment how to do something that takes advantage of my long arms and works with not as much body rotation as most people use.  

https://youtu.be/tyCTDQRkPHo?t=137

It would be better and safer with more body rotation, but for what I try to do, it is good enough, no one complains about my power, everyone talks about my inability to move and that is more limited by pain (match adrenaline is one thing but I can't practice as I would like).  I use a little core work and hip rotation, but the arm mechanics are what I rely on.  I snap my forearm to control the stroke and keep it on the same side of my body.  The legs are a more stable power base so they would help a lot and probably be better, but the core is really the foundation of high level looping.  Coaches will tell you to turn your shoulders or turn your waist.  And a world class CNT player said the back muscles are the most important for looping in his view (probably why many players develop back injuries when they overuse these muscles).

In any case if you understand what is going in the videos above, you can do it with straight arm, bent arm, mostly wrist, mostly elbow, mostly shoulder or some combination of all three.  The forearm snap is way of adding to the motion and for me most importantly gives it a timing and control that I can't get elsewhere in the stroke.  If you feel as if you are dragging your arm into the ball you probably have it right.  If you feel you are pushing your arm into the ball, you might but it is far less likely.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Donier RR Off Oversized FL
FH: Hexer 2.1 B
BH: Hexer 2.1 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 11499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 8:39am
OK, so that's for the racket head speed.  The spin comes with practice and experimentation with ball contact.  The one thing that is a requirement for spin is that your stroke must turn the ball.  Some people call it shaping the ball, some people call it wrapping the ball, some people call it slicing the ball, but it involves hitting the ball with a stroke that turns the ball around.  You should experiment and see what gives the ball more arc and less arc and more spin and less spin.  You can hit the ball with a very closed racket face or with a less closed racket face and still turn the ball.  Turning the ball is one of the reasons for the forearm snap, though if you turn your body completely, then you many not need a forearm snap for that reason.  That said, if you watch most good players, and trace their swing, you will see that it curves around the ball.  They may make extremely hard contact with a open looking racket face, but the stroke still curves around the ball if they are looping it for heavy spin.  If they are playing close to the table, you will see that the stroke comes over the ball as they don't want to lift the ball off the table.  As much as possible, as your stroke advances, you want to get your spin and power in the same direction with your technique.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Donier RR Off Oversized FL
FH: Hexer 2.1 B
BH: Hexer 2.1 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer