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Knees and table tennis

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fatt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/27/2017 at 12:37am
It is rare but sometimes I feel something at the knee level and it's unbearable; it would last days and hurt by surprise. It went away but I got scared and it did tell me a lot about those who suffers all the time from those complicated joints.

Maybe there is hope for them:

SCIENCE!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 1:58am
I suffered severe pain in my left knee the last couple of years, making it very difficult to move at the table at all.  I recently underwent a new surgery for a trial device that is supposed to reduce the pain.  It's too to be sure, but I am optimistic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 4:41am
Hi Fatt, the link you gave is very interesting. I suppose it will be a less complicated surgery compared to Total Knee Replacement ?
I had problems with my knees, one day I found it hard to stretch my knee, but after taking Glucosamine the problem vanished.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 9:07am
That is pretty cool, fatt.  I am thankful that I don't have knee problems (yet).  I suspect it will not be too long before that kind of thing (3-D printed cartilage replacements) becomes clinically available.

For something that might help now, not long ago I spent some time looking at peer-reviewed medical literature on randomized clinical trials for chondroitin and glucosamine (the highest standard of evidence, probably the only standard people should accept). This has been a controversial subject over the years, with contradictory findings and some uncontrolled patient testimonials. 

Some of the studies in the last few years now have better designs and are now showing believable positive results in osteoarthritis. Here is a very good recent one. The dose used in this study was 400 mg chondroitin sulfate plus 500 mg glucosamine hydrochloride three times a day.

http://ard.bmj.com/content/early/2015/0 ... 014-206792

The bottom line of this study: "The reduction in pain was both clinically important and statistically significant (50% reduction in both groups), as was the improvement in stiffness (46.9% reduction with the combination vs 49.2% with celecoxib), and function (45.5% vs 46.4%, respectively)." Also, it is a much safer treatment than celecoxib (or any other NSAIDs).

Another thing they found is that the improvement is slow in onset. It takes 1-4 months to see an effect.

These newer studies are showing that best results are obtained when glucosamine and chondroitin are taken in combination. By themselves, they don't seem to work well enough to show a statistically significant or consistent effect. Here is one of those studies:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... #t=article

The problem ALWAYS with this is finding a supplier who sells a version of these substance that is actually what is claimed in the label and that is actually absorbed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 9:49am
Several years (>10) ago I started to experience sharp pains in my knees especially when climbing stairs. I started to take Glucosamine and gradually the pain went away. However, some months later the pains returned. But I then realised that I had run out of Glucosamine and not taken any for a few weeks.
I have been through this cycle a couple of times and basically if I am not on it then I have the pains. Whatever the science behind this medicine, I think I am one of the few that benefit from taking it.
I do have the usual TT left-knee problems from twisting during table tennis but that's a different issue. I solve that by wearing a knee strap anytime I play.
BTW, I now take the take the minimum size 500mg. I used to take 1000mg tablets, and also Glucosamine +Chondroitin but I found no difference.


Edited by Tinykin - 04/27/2017 at 9:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 11:32pm
I've been taking MSM and Glucosamine for a number of years now.  It definitely helps, I tried the Glucosamine +Chondroitin, but it didn't seem to help as much (really not much at all), so I take it in combination with MSM instead.  At the time I was having problems with my hands, the pain is in my thumb joints, and made it hard to grip thing like a coffee cup or TT paddle.  I no longer suffer from this, although when the weather changes, it seems to flair up.  I'm guessing my joints are sensitive to the pressure changes as fronts move past, my best guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kangp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2017 at 11:47pm
For those of you that suffered pain in one side, was it your dominant side?
I have had a lot of pain in my left knee recently and it seems to come from constant foot stomping during serves (habitual)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 2:28am
me too, had sharp pains in my right knees especially when going down stairs; have been taking "Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM 1300mg" twice per day for few years.  no more pain Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 6:27am
Originally posted by Kangp Kangp wrote:

For those of you that suffered pain in one side, was it your dominant side?
I have had a lot of pain in my left knee recently and it seems to come from constant foot stomping during serves (habitual)...


If you are righthanded, it's a typical TT player injury.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 7:07am
I've actually been having some pain recently (like the last few months) in my left leg (but I'm left handed). I can't replicate the pain in anyway, though. It usually doesn't hurt when I play. I just sometimes get the exact right awkward angle and pressure to feel it. Since I can't replicate it, my doctor said not to worry about it. I wonder if it's table tennis related...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 8:21am
Baal is the expert on these things, but whenever I play, I wear a knee strap.

Keen TT players (right handed) usual suffer pain/stress in at least one of the following areas at some point in time; left knee, hip, ankles, right shoulder/elbow/wrist. That's why specific TT training focuses on strengthening those areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Audrey17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 3:29pm
Had my first knee injury a few years ago. I just stopped playing tennis till it feels better.

I tried few table tennis company’s shoes. The Killerspin kinetic shoe is very good. The Butterfly radial shoes have a lot of padding on the sides, and that is what I like most – it is wider for any feet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2017 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

I've actually been having some pain recently (like the last few months) in my left leg (but I'm left handed). I can't replicate the pain in anyway, though. It usually doesn't hurt when I play. I just sometimes get the exact right awkward angle and pressure to feel it. Since I can't replicate it, my doctor said not to worry about it. I wonder if it's table tennis related...


It's hard to say since I'm not an expert on leg problems, mickd, but if you're a lefty and you play a fair amount each week and you begin your forehand loop in a low crouch, I suspect you're gonna be putting some strain on that left leg every time you transfer your weight from a bent left leg to a (I'm typing this from a Taco Bell in Tucson; bear with me while I shadow stroke a modern lefty loop) to a moderately bent right leg.  This may be especially the case if you've a forehand loop like everybody on the CNT but can't train as much.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2017 at 12:36am
I used to have a right knee injury (completely unrelated to TT), after months of physiotherapy it became a lot better. I started lifting after that to strengthen my body to avoid injuries and to look better ;) 

In my opinion, barbell squats are one of the few exercises that all TT players should do. In fact, Dimitrij Ovtcharov also swears by it from one of his interview videos. It strengthens your quads and other muscles around your knees (reducing injury risk), and allows you to stay low for long periods of time without tiring out.  

Another thing I found that helped me a lot is that as amateurs we tend to stay planted, and rotating the body while the feet stay planted is another recipe for injury because you are applying significant torsion to your knee (which is a very bad thing!). One very simple way of practising is simply by lifting your right leg (left leg for lefties!) off the ground when you go heavy on your FH loops/smashes, this will ensure you actually transfer your weight to your other foot and avoid torsion in your knees.

I also try to do core rotation (such as the cable wood-chop) and anti-rotation exercises (Pallof press) with cables to strengthen my core, as I find that it is often used heavily in the course of a TT session. 

I believe if we want to emulate the pros, we will need strength training just as they do, and to acquire the correct technique to avoid injuries and lengthen our playing career. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2017 at 6:16am
+1 to Blahness's post. Also, bear in mind that all pros have injuries lol. So if you're gonna play a lot of table tennis, make sure you go to the gym as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/14/2017 at 6:33pm
there is also this technique:





Edited by fatt - 05/14/2017 at 6:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/14/2017 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

there is also this technique:



I'm skeptical of this one.  The main problem with these sorts of treatments is that the device you put in between (such as  this balloon) can slip, causing more problems.

I'd also like to point out for this entire thread that there are different levels of physical problems that one can experience.  If you have a torn meniscus, or other permanent cartilage damage, then  more of the therapy approaches discussed are are insufficient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 12:46pm
should this post be renamed:-

head and shoulders, knees and table tennis, knees and table tennis
head and shoulders, knees and table tennis, knees and table tennis




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 1:46pm
Since I am more BH oriented I have had more problems with my left knee. I have been using small (and cheap) knee straps under b oth knees for a few years now - they certainly help. Even when I do not have pain, I still wear them during practice or tournaments, just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTHOUSTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 5:18pm
We play table tennis that is different with someone play ping pong and now look it back, all of my friends and partner were injury everywhere on their body. Some one have knee issue and the others has tennis elbow or shoulders. This sport is react too quick and your muscle will hurt if you are not good warm up and most of the time you are not good warm up.
If you are 50 or older (like we are now), I think we don't need to play like high level or practice like world level. We just play for fun and change your Technic to adapt to your year old.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 5:24pm
Good posting. I will let my friend know. He fluctuates between 1900 - 2000. He has had bad knees for years, kind of runs in the family, and he injured them playing basketball many years ago. A year ago he finally had a full knee replacement on his right knee and he's not in any more pain with that knee. The left knee is now shot and he will have a partial replacement in the first part of June. He's been wearing a very expensive knee brace for years on his left knee and he can't wait until he won't need to wear it anymore! The partial replacement he's getting won't be nearly as long to recover as the full replacement he had a year ago on his right knee. So the problem he's had the past year is that he can't push off with his left knee and can't move to the far right side of the table when someone hits it over there. That hydrogel looks like it could really change things someday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2017 at 9:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2017 at 9:56pm
"Keen TT players (right handed) usual suffer pain/stress in at least one of the following areas at some point in time; left knee, hip, ankles, right shoulder/elbow/wrist. That's why specific TT training focuses on strengthening those areas."

Back pain anyone? Lower back. Nothing terrible but it's there. 2 out of 10 Id say.

Used to get pain in the knees but it soon went away when I started using gels on my shoes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2017 at 9:59pm
Not knees, but.. Sciatica... this thing hurts. I will be back by the table very soon...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gianquittia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2017 at 10:24pm
I'm not sure if this helps, but I have been trying to study up on the ideal athletic position, when I noticed my knees bothering me.  I play with a bulging disc in my back also, but I hide it with pain pills for as long as they work for the session.  Try to make sure your knees don't go over or more forward than your toes.  Should just have a slight bend in the knees for your normal stance.  You can bend more to go down to a lower shot, but return to the slight bend.  Keep the shoulders over the toes by bending at the hips.  This should help keep your weight on the balls of your feet also.  I for a long time tried to play lower by bending my knees excessively and I had awful knee pain.  Once I started bending my knees just slightly and keeping my weight forward by keeping the shoulders over the toes and almost floating my heels to make sure I don't get off balanced by falling back it's helped my knees and my movement a lot.  Something my physical therapist told me is to keep my big toe on the ground too, which helps keep your knees in alignment when you lunge.  Hopefully some of this helps and if anyone has anything to add or contradict I'd appreciate it, because I am trying to find the ideal athletic position. 
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