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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 5:08pm
How do you get a hard feel from a softwood?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

How do you get a hard feel from a softwood?


Softwood is wood from gymnosperm trees such as conifers. The term is opposed to hardwood, which is the wood from angiosperm trees.

Softwoods are not necessarily softer than hardwoods. In both groups there is an enormous variation in actual wood hardness, with the range in density in hardwoods completely including that of softwoods; some hardwoods (e.g. balsa) are softer than most softwoods, while the hardest hardwoods are much harder than any softwood. The woods of longleaf pine, douglas fir, and yew are much harder in the mechanical sense than several hardwoods.

Source: Wikipedia

Edit: additional info


Edited by arg0 - 06/22/2017 at 5:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 5:15pm
BTW I looked at pictures of Pines in the Boreal forest, the Jack Pine could be it but only has Janka hardness of 570 which is about the same as limba
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 5:31pm
Siberian Larch / Dahurian Larch has about 1100 lbf Janka hardness, and other larches and pines have about 1100-1200 lbf. These values are about the same as Teak, some Walnut types, Oak, and come close to White Ash (used e.g. for Violin).


Edited by arg0 - 06/22/2017 at 5:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Siberian Larch / Dahurian Larch has about 1100 lbf Janka hardness, and other larches and pines have about 1100-1200 lbf. These values are about the same as Teak, some Walnut types, Oak, and come close to White Ash (used e.g. for Violin).

The harder pines such as the Longleaf referred to in your previous posting has a Janka hardness of 870 but they grow in the warmer climates.  If Kakapo could get his well informed person to tell us what kind of pine it is then we could know if it is grown near the Arctic or if Stiga marketing is full of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Siberian Larch / Dahurian Larch has about 1100 lbf Janka hardness, and other larches and pines have about 1100-1200 lbf. These values are about the same as Teak, some Walnut types, Oak, and come close to White Ash (used e.g. for Violin).

The harder pines such as the Longleaf referred to in your previous posting has a Janka hardness of 870 but they grow in the warmer climates.  If Kakapo could get his well informed person to tell us what kind of pine it is then we could know if it is grown near the Arctic or if Stiga marketing is full of it.


I was not referring to the Longleaf, but rather to the Siberian Larch.
The Siberian larch or Russian larch is a frost-hardy tree native to western Russia, from close to the Finnish border east to the Yenisei valley in central Siberia, where it hybridises with the Dahurian larch [1]. Dahurian Larch is a tree of very cold climates, ranging northward inside the Arctic Circle to tree line [2].
Siberian Larch has a Janka value of 1100 lbf [3]. Another source cites a Janka value of 4500 N (1010 lbf) for Sibirian/Russian/Dahurian Larch [4].

Sources:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larix_sibirica
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larix_gmelinii
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test
[4] http://www.houtdatabase.nl/?q=hout/bouw/46/mechanisch


Update: larches are softwood and, as I learned after posting the above, softwood has no pores, while arctic wood has. Thus it's not Dahurian / Siberian Larch. My best guess now is sorbus aucuparia (Rowan), see my posts further down.


Edited by arg0 - 06/24/2017 at 7:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 6:13am
Wondering why yogi did not just copy it over...

About the top ply, I'm not sure: to me, it does not seem to be white ash, nor any related species. Above, I was betting on larch, but also in pictures of larch wood online I cannot find the tiny grooves (pores?) that the arctic wood has.
If these grooves are pores, then it must be some sort of hardwood, because softwood has no pores, as I just found out. This would exclude larch and pine, I suppose.

I agree with yogi on the other plies, should be the same as infinity vps.

Edited by arg0 - 06/23/2017 at 6:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 7:25am
New guess: Arctic White Birch. It's a hardwood and grows in the arctic treeline. White birches (not specifically arctic) have Janka hardness of 900-1200 lbf. The grain is quite similar to my blade, at least in some pictures, eg this. And it has pores. It looks nowhere near as impressive as the tree chosen by Stiga for his ad, though...

Edit: superseded by my new guess, see the next post.


Edited by arg0 - 06/24/2017 at 7:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 7:36pm
Stiga claims the arctic wood grows above the arctic circle, so I checked again the tree species in the arctic treeline [1] and found my new best guess (which replaces all others): sorbus aucuparia, aka Rowan [2]. It is also called mountain ash, but mountain ash is also a common name for other tree species [6]. Note that the rowan species is unrelated to the true ash trees (genus Fraxinus) [2].
Again, the tree is quite unimpressive and looks nothing like the tree in the Stiga advertising video, but the grain is strikingly similar. See [3] fore more pictures. Rowan has a Janka value of about 1690 lbf according to the wood database [4], so it's definitely a hard hardwood.
Wood databse reports a Janka value of 1210 lbf for mountain ash [5], but this is for another species (
Eucalyptus regnans), which does not grow above the Arctic Circle.

This is an image of a plank of sorbus aucuparia, doesn't it look familiar?


With this, my quest is over. Unless someone proves me wrong.

Source:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Typical_vegetation
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbus_aucuparia
[3] http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mountain%20ash.htm
[4] http://www.wood-database.com/rowan/
[5] http://www.wood-database.com/mountain-ash/
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_ash

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Edited by arg0 - 06/24/2017 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Stiga claims the arctic wood grows above the arctic circle, so I checked again the tree species in the arctic treeline [1] and found my new best guess (which replaces all others): sorbus aucuparia, aka Rowan [2]. It is also called mountain ash, but mountain ash is also a common name for other tree species [6]. Note that the rowan species is unrelated to the true ash trees (genus Fraxinus) [2].
Again, the tree is quite unimpressive and looks nothing like the tree in the Stiga advertising video, but the grain is strikingly similar. See [3] fore more pictures. Rowan has a Janka value of about 1690 lbf according to the wood database [4], so it's definitely a hard hardwood.
Wood databse reports a Janka value of 1210 lbf for mountain ash [5], but this is for another species (
Eucalyptus regnans), which does not grow above the Arctic Circle.

This is an image of a plank of sorbus aucuparia, doesn't it look familiar?


With this, my quest is over. Unless someone proves me wrong.

Source:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_line#Typical_vegetation
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbus_aucuparia
[3] http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mountain%20ash.htm
[4] http://www.wood-database.com/rowan/
[5] http://www.wood-database.com/mountain-ash/
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_ash

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Deep down you have doubts - so it is not over - my guess.


Edited by tom - 06/24/2017 at 10:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 11:53pm
The handle of the arctic wood is too slender for my hand even with legend flared.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2017 at 12:09am
you guys can sell to me. i liked the thiner nittaku and butterfly handles Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2017 at 2:25am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Deep down you have doubts - so it is not over - my guess.

True, I've doubts, but no means to clear them. Still waiting for kakapo's source, though pine seems really unlikely to me, now.
Maybe I'll ask Stiga whether my guess is right. I don't expect them to tell me, though...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2017 at 2:28am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

The handle of the arctic wood is too slender for my hand even with legend flared.

Is it thinner than other Legend handles from Stiga?
The straight handle is comfortably thick and sized like the "Large Handles" from Nittaku (29 x 23.5 mm).

Edited by arg0 - 06/25/2017 at 2:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p1ngp0ng3r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2017 at 4:58am
@Yogi, is it much thinner compared to Legend handle on Infinity? 
I have both Infinity and Celero with Legend handle and the Celero is much thinner compared to Infinity handle.

@arg0, nice quest to discover the woodtype. Thanks for sharing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by p1ngp0ng3r p1ngp0ng3r wrote:

@arg0, nice quest to discover the woodtype. Thanks for sharing!

Sure, that was fun. I've written to Stiga and asked if they can confirm. I would be surprised if they would, but it's worth a try...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 3:10am
It's been quiet here for some time.
I found this review on TT11:

Customer Reviews
16/06/2017 A BLADE WITH GOOD FEELING Review by Jin Yangyang

It's a 5 plies wood blade with hard outer veneers and thick 2nd veneers. It has plenty control and has good speed when attack. the Best is that it gives fine and smooth reflect when hiting. A wonderful 5ply blade in 40+ era.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 7:23am
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

The handle of the arctic wood is too slender for my hand even with legend flared.

Is it thinner than other Legend handles from Stiga?
The straight handle is comfortably thick and sized like the "Large Handles" from Nittaku (29 x 23.5 mm).
yes it is. i have my rosewood v legend it(arctic) is more slender. that is the only reason i cannot switch to the arctic because my hands are used to bigger legend flared handles of stiga blades. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 1:56pm
I once had a blade,
Or should I say,
It once had me.

A friend showed me the blade;
Isn't it good?
Ar-Arctic Wood.

So I bought my friend's blade
And it was good;
Ar-Arctic Wood.


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king of bullshit and no-sense ?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 4:22pm
I'd rather be a forest than a blade.
Yes I would,
If I only could.
I'm Arctic Wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

king of bullshit and no-sense ?!

That sounds offensive. Not talking about the blade, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 5:06pm
One review I found on tabletennis-reference.com. Bing's automated translation is better.

Reviewer: Persimmon pea (Experience: more than 20 years)
2017/07/04

Original review

スティガに勤めている友人のご厚意で早めに貰いましたwお金は払いましたが。
あ、なお、ネオ3は、国狂です。
硬いなーと思いましたが、のわりには回転が非常によく、バランスがいいです。スピードがコントロールをよくしてくれていて、万能なラケットに感じました。
ただ、力がないとこのラケットは本領発揮できないですね。
筋肉自信ある人はぜひぜひ

Translated by Google
I got it early on behalf of my friend working for Stiga. W I paid the money.
Well, Neo 3 is a national devotion.
I thought that it was hard, but in spite of the rotation it is very well, well-balanced. Speed ​​has improved the control, I felt like a versatile racquet.
However, we can not demonstrate this racket without strength.
If you are a self-confident muscle you certainly

Translated by Bing
I got it early with the courtesy of a friend who works for Stiga W I paid the money.
Oh, and, neo-3 is a country maniac.
I thought it was hard, but the rotation is very good, and the balance is nice. The speed was good for the control, and I felt it to be a versatile racket.
However, if there is no power, this racket cannot be demonstrated.
People who have muscle confidence by all means

Overall 15/15
Speed     13/15
Spin     14/15
Control 13/15
Touch     14/15
Hardness     hard
Recommended rubber (Forehand) EARLY Kyo leopard 3
Recommended rubber (Backhand) Bryce High Speed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

king of bullshit and no-sense ?!

Go to, thou base born, fen suckled, whey faced, heifer humping. sheep swiving, shake shagging, beetle breathed, spindle shanked, needle's eye of a clotpole!  May you use nought but Stiga Arctic wood blades until the end of your days.

Have a nice day.


Edited by berndt_mann - 07/16/2017 at 6:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 9:39pm
Someone on Yahoo posted the composition for the Artic Wood as Tamo, Kiri, Ayous, where Tamo(Tamo Ash) can refer to two trees - Fraxinus mandshurica var. japonica(Manchurian Ash) and Fraxinus japonica. The former is native to northeastern Asia in northern China (Gansu, Hebei, Heilongjiang, Henan, Hubei, Jilin, Liaoning, Shaanxi, Shanxi), Korea, Japan and southeastern Russia (Sakhalin Island), whereas the latter originates from the Japanese archipelago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2017 at 4:12am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Someone on Yahoo posted the composition for the Artic Wood as Tamo, Kiri, Ayous, where Tamo(Tamo Ash) can refer to two trees - Fraxinus mandshurica var. japonica(Manchurian Ash) and Fraxinus japonica. The former is native to northeastern Asia in northern China (Gansu, Hebei, Heilongjiang, Henan, Hubei, Jilin, Liaoning, Shaanxi, Shanxi), Korea, Japan and southeastern Russia (Sakhalin Island), whereas the latter originates from the Japanese archipelago.


How do they suppport this statement? I find this hard to believe: first, the intermediate ply really looks like spruce to me, not Kiri. Spruce has a distinct striped patter, kiri has not. Moreover, Arctic Wood (AW) is from the VPS series, which have thermally treated intermediate plies. To me they look the same as in Infinity VPS V, which is known to be spruce.

As to the outer plies, tamo ash is indeed a common name for several wood types, most famous for their swirly-grain that sometimes has "peanut" figures. This is not the case for AW. Yet, I found some pictures of some tamo-ish ash (Fraxinus sieboldiana) that do look a bit like the outer plies of AW, though the stripes are generally much darker. Stiga claims to have selected a rare tree that grows north of the Arctic Circle. Fraxinus sieboldiana has a USDA hardiness zone of 6, meaning that it is able to withstand a minimum temperature of about -23C (-10F). This means that it is able to grow at certain warm locations in the Arctic. Not many locations, though, which could be why it is "rare".

Well, it would be interesting to know whether the post you found does cite any source.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2017 at 9:30am
Hot mercy Martha!  You guys are quite the dendrologists.  Back when I was a sophomore in high school I compiled a leaf collection for a botany project and could tell a quercus rubra (red oak) leaf from an acer rubrum (red maple) one.  

Back in that day we didn't worry too much about the composition of our ping pong paddles though.  I do remember that they were pretty much made of some kind of wood though.  Probably not Arctic wood, and they certainly weren't Stigas.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2017 at 10:09am
Winter is coming!

FdT

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