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Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro

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    Posted: 05/13/2017 at 9:08pm
Hi.

Hi.
Hi. I am currently an intermediate player (1900 rating) been playing for many years and with good ball control. I am currently using the Stiga offensive classic blade (I have only used all wood through my career). I used to use it with the old 38 mm ball and discontinued playing for a little while before coming back again. I find it to be too slow with the bigger ball.I impart heavy spin on my opening loops shifting to much faster strokes for the 5th ball. I also have a problem of blade slipping as I shift from forehand to backhand and between my serve and first attack. Am looking for a faster blade (but not lacking control for an all round attack and block game) and found these two alternatives : Donic ovtcharov true carbon and tibhar samsonov force bro (black edition). I have read and found positive reviews on both of them. If someone could shed light on the comparison between these two blades it would be great (in terms of speed and control). Is the all wood Samsonov force pro black as fast as a carbon blade with greater control (that's the idea I seemed to get from all the reviews I read)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 10:29am
I'm quite sure the OTC will be faster. 

As for the blade slipping issue, and with full disclosure that you know about the blade you contacted me about, grip tape or anatomic handle is the way to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zaid323918 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 2:06pm
The True carbon will definitely be faster as it is a composite blade. It is like Viscaria in terms of feel, composition, etc. The Force Pro will be similar to your stiga blade but faster and it will definitely have better control than the true carbon. Another blade you should think about is the Stiga Infinity which is a very good all wood blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 2:11pm
Oops

Edited by bard romance - 05/17/2017 at 3:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zaid323918 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 2:14pm
Yh it's a koto top ply, 7 ply arylate carbon blade. Baal who is an expert on the Viscaria said that the True Carbon is the closest thing he found to the Viscaria in terms of feel etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Zaid323918 Zaid323918 wrote:

Yh it's a koto top ply, 7 ply arylate carbon blade. Baal who is an expert on the Viscaria said that the True Carbon is the closest thing he found to the Viscaria in terms of feel etc

My bad - read that as Force Pro is like the True Carbon. Yep, the True Carbon is essentially a direct Viscaria clone. Several posters including Baal who have come to that conclusion. However, the Force Pro is nothing like the OTC/Visc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennisfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:52pm
Thank you for your response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennisfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Zaid323918 Zaid323918 wrote:

Yh it's a koto top ply, 7 ply arylate carbon blade. Baal who is an expert on the Viscaria said that the True Carbon is the closest thing he found to the Viscaria in terms of feel etc


My bad - read that as Force Pro is like the True Carbon. Yep, the True Carbon is essentially a direct Viscaria clone. Several posters including Baal who have come to that conclusion. However, the Force Pro is nothing like the OTC/Visc.


Thank you very much for your response. I was confused because tabletennisdb.com which rates all blades in fact rated the force pro (black edition not the old one) as the third best blade after dhs long 5 with a 9.7 speed rating. The Viscaria is a distant 20th with a 9.3 speed rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennisfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I'm quite sure the OTC will be faster. 

As for the blade slipping issue, and with full disclosure that you know about the blade you contacted me about, grip tape or anatomic handle is the way to go.


Thank you very much for your response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zaid323918 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:11pm
Unfortunately there are a lot of beginners on tabletennisdb who can easily over rate or under rate a blade/rubber. For example there is one user who rated the Viscaria's control as less than 5 which is ridiculous as Viscaria is not that difficult to ontrol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennisfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Zaid323918 Zaid323918 wrote:

Unfortunately there are a lot of beginners on tabletennisdb who can easily over rate or under rate a blade/rubber. For example there is one user who rated the Viscaria's control as less than 5 which is ridiculous as Viscaria is not that difficult to ontrol.


That makes sense. Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2017 at 12:01am
Stiga OC is way way slower compared to Samsonov Force Pro (blue handle), let alone the black handle.

OC is standard 5-ply limba-spruce-ayous-spruce-limba with thickness of 5.5 - 5.6 mm
SFP blue handle is 7-ply limba-ayous-ayous-ayous-ayous-ayous-limba with thickness of 6.3-6.4 mm
SFP black handle is 7-ply similar composition as blue handle with thicker ply.

So there is no way you have the same feel with your old OC (which is quite flexible).  SFP blue handle is stiffer.  SFP black handle is even stiffer than SFP blue handle.  It is a Stiga Clipper clone.

Has no experience with True Carbon but if it's the same as Viscaria, then you will have no feel coming from vibrating Stiga OC.

I would say go with Stiga Offensive NCT or Stiga Infinity VPS.  It has the same plies as your Stiga OC but thicker.   However, beware with Infinity VPS (thickness~6.0mm).  It is prone to delaminate.  On the other hand, Offensive NCT is fine (thickness ~5.8mm)


Edited by doraemon - 05/18/2017 at 12:06am
Infinity
H3 Neo / Mark V
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennisfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2017 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Stiga OC is way way slower compared to Samsonov Force Pro (blue handle), let alone the black handle.

OC is standard 5-ply limba-spruce-ayous-spruce-limba with thickness of 5.5 - 5.6 mm
SFP blue handle is 7-ply limba-ayous-ayous-ayous-ayous-ayous-limba with thickness of 6.3-6.4 mm
SFP black handle is 7-ply similar composition as blue handle with thicker ply.

So there is no way you have the same feel with your old OC (which is quite flexible).  SFP blue handle is stiffer.  SFP black handle is even stiffer than SFP blue handle.  It is a Stiga Clipper clone.

Has no experience with True Carbon but if it's the same as Viscaria, then you will have no feel coming from vibrating Stiga OC.

I would say go with Stiga Offensive NCT or Stiga Infinity VPS.  It has the same plies as your Stiga OC but thicker.   However, beware with Infinity VPS (thickness~6.0mm).  It is prone to delaminate.  On the other hand, Offensive NCT is fine (thickness ~5.8mm)





Thank you for your detailed review and response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 1:41am
I have played with both of these blades and to me the True Carbon had a more controllable response. I really struggled with the speed and bounce of the Black Edition.

I would rate the Black Edition to be faster than the True Carbon.

Just to throw two more blades into the mix to consider: Xiom Vega Pro and Nittaku Acoustic Carbon.

Edited by h0n1g - 05/19/2017 at 1:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennisfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 1:46am
Originally posted by h0n1g h0n1g wrote:

I have played with both of these blades and to me the True Carbon had a more controllable response. I really struggled with the speed and bounce of the Black Edition.

I would rate the Black Edition to be faster than the True Carbon.

Just to throw two more blades into the mix to consider: Xiom Vega Pro and Nittaku Acoustic Carbon.


That's really a different point of view. Thank you so much for taking your time to share it with me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tmham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2017 at 2:38am
The Force pro is really fast, I used to have one. Even my coach is surprised at how fast it is for a wooden blade (when compared to ALC blades). 
Butterfly Timo Boll ALC
Donic Baracuda MAX on FH & BH

Butterfly Innerforce layer ZLC
FH: Donic Baracuda Max
BH: Tibhar MX-P Max
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