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Loop or Drive ???

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mjamja View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05/15/2017 at 6:21pm
I am concerned that I am teaching looping vs topspin improperly.  I think I may be trying to get my students to brush the ball too much.   How should a coach judge whether a player is making too solid contact and thus driving the ball vs getting enough brushing to be considered looping and getting the benefits that type of stroke is supposed to give him?

Mark


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 6:51pm

A close up video tape of contact in slow motion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


A close up video tape of contact in slow motion

But what exactly am I looking for in that slow motion tape?

Mark


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 7:17pm
Is it as simple as examining the results? If your shots are coming in short and bouncing high and getting smashed, then you need to try to flatten out your shot with more forward follow through. If you're hitting too many shots in the net, then started lifting more?

I guess what I'm trying to say is you want to have the whole range of shots and pick your times to use them whether flat or spinny

Edited by cole_ely - 05/15/2017 at 7:19pm
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TTHOUSTON View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TTHOUSTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 8:07pm
Before, my club have at-least 2 Chinese coach, now we have one. My child had been trained from them for several years before and I had learned from them too.
Those coach always want their student loop with speed first, of-course their student has to do with right stroke and right timing as the coach teach. With the beginning student, the coaches will feed the topspin ball for easy loop then coach will correct student's stroke and timing. Then they start do backspin ball for students loop with the same stroke. Coach will increase backspin time by time, year by year depend student level. The Chinese style is loop on the top of the bounce and go forward.
Depend the level, coach will let the students move harder but main thing is move to the ball and using leg (transfer leg to other leg), hip and forearm to loop. Transfer leg to leg and forearm will gain more speed, using more hip will gain more spin.
Right stroke always make the ball go fast and spiny.
This is just my opinion. :)
Note: Depend the rubber and blade can increase speed or spin a little bit more.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 8:30pm
Ok.  Let's say I am coaching a student and he is hitting 3 different quality of balls at me.  One is the highest in spin, but the slowest of the three.  One is the fastest but has the least spin.  One is in the middle in both speed and spin.  They are all landing on the table in relative good depth.

What I am looking for is how to determine which, if any of the three, is the ball I want him to try and repeat over and over.  Which shots do I praise and which do I get him not to repeat?  How do I decide if the ball is spiny enough and how do I decide if the ball is fast enough?

Mark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 9:02pm
i usually let them loop the ball with the late timing. this is the one where the ball begins to drop and you brush the ball more instead of hitting it through the sponge. my reasoning for this is that they would develop their contact and brush against the ball easily before moving to the peak and off the bounce timing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2017 at 9:34pm
Ad a coach, I get my students to just do a good swing and use it to control the ball and get different results. Use it to loop with more spin and less speed, more speed and less spin, etc. The brain can do a lot if you trust it to do a lot.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTHOUSTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2017 at 12:18am
Mark, If he can loop 3 different quality spin then use them all. Keep practice and practice up to third ball, fourth and fifth ball. Loop different location and consistent is a key in the game, more spin and more speed will come after they practice year and year, it can not come right away.
My coach always yell students...too late...too late....Coach want students move to the ball and contact on the top of the bounce. Coach never complain too slow or more spin at all because they know it will come later.
Coach always want student consistent move the leg before loop and rally the ball with location. If your student can rally consistent 5th to 6th ball on the table, he will be 2000 easy.
Like I said, Do not worry too much on spin and speed now, it will come after he practice few years.
note: Concentrate on move the leg and bend the knee, those will help consistent looping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2017 at 12:55am
This depends on age of student as in are they new to table tennis coaching or getting corrected
because years of bad habits

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2017 at 3:47am
Give them backspin balls; they don't have to be heavy chop balls...

Typically they will need to loop the ball to get it over the net...

More quality loops will go over the net and on the table of course...

Enjoy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danseemiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2017 at 6:01am
spin and speed should be equal  50/50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2017 at 7:55am
I'm continually trying to move in the direction of 50/50 spin/speed ball from the 80/20 spin/speed ball I perfected over 20 years ago with the 38mm ball. High spin balls aren't as effective (equivalently, not as spinny) with the recent ball change as I'm finding that mere mortals can return my heavy spin loops.
To achieve more speed less spin, I've adjusted my contact from the extreme closed angle to a more open angled solid contact and I think you should observe their racket angles as well. A closed angle racket has a small margin for error - more likely to make racket edge contact.  
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