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    Posted: 06/26/2017 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

After years of reading the western view on human rights conditions in China, and years of posting on this forum as to how severely crippled human rights really are because people are so easily offended, I seriously feel the quote below is nothing more than a mere decoration.

Quote Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction.


You can't comment on race, color, sex, age...without fearing that someone WILL get offended.

Last but not least, if this will make you feel better:

In the United States, under the First Amendment to the Constitution, speech, even speech that some may find offensive, is permitted unless it is in the judgment of a court obscene, slanderous, libelous, or inciteful to violence or panic.  Leeway is given to speech or writings that are viewed as satirical.  For example, none of the Tucson, Arizona police have come after me for posting sarcastic posts to this forum.  Members of the United States Armed Forces are not allowed to speak ill to their superiors, be they non-commissioned or officers, under penalty of non-judicial punishment or in more extreme cases a court martial.  Children may face expulsion from school or detention at school for being bratty to their teachers or their principal.  Policemen and firefighters, as well as for example physicians, do not play the smart ass to their bosses.  Neither do employees in general, as an employee not covered by a contract for a specific period of time or belonging to a union can be fired for any reason or no reason at all.

In the United States, it is most likely true that if you make a derogatory comment about someone's color, race, sex or age, that someone will be offended.  If your comment is so offensive as to amount to "fighting words" (depending on what you say, not necessarily protected as free speech), you may get busted upside the head or slapped on the cheek but you probably won't be jailed.

Also, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says you can't be a flaming asshole, so long as you don't commit any crimes while being one.

Now what was the subject of this post again before it became derailed?  Oh yeah, the backhand dominant player and the reverse pendulum service and how to return it.

A good question.  I've never employed a reverse pendulum service but if I were facing one I'd probably try to return it to the middle of the table and hope that my opponent doesn't crack it off my playing elbow.
.



Edited by berndt_mann - 06/26/2017 at 11:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 5:50pm
After years of reading the western view on human rights conditions in China, and years of posting on this forum as to how severely crippled human rights really are because people are so easily offended, I seriously feel the quote below is nothing more than a mere decoration.

Quote Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction.


You can't comment on race, color, sex, age...without fearing that someone WILL get offended.

Last but not least, if this will make you feel better:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

You probably would like to explain what you are referring to with this gif?!

I cannot imagine any context in a tabletennis forum in which this would be appropriate.

He is mocking SmackDat's approach to the thread.

More seriously, I agree with you.  While I agree with Emrathich and Bran's logic, I find that what is more important in my practice is the kinds of returns that you get. There is no need to argue too strongly with SmackDat, he will develop his own opinions over time.  The most backhand oriented player in my club can't do a backhand serve or a reverse pendulum serve even if you paid him to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 5:15pm
You probably would like to explain what you are referring to with this gif?!

I cannot imagine any context in a tabletennis forum in which this would be appropriate.

Edited by Liquid Sky - 06/26/2017 at 5:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

That is the reason why I made this thread!!


So you did start this thread NOT to discuss about this topic?

You only wanted to have your/ EmRatThich's opinion confirmed?

Yes, I was unsure as to whether this was a thing, Emratthich himself validated it on the thread!



Edited by zeio - 06/26/2017 at 4:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, this makes sense.
However, it is a very unflexible approach.

Of course, it's schematic and not meant to be absolute. In fairness, I haven't watched the video and only explained the reasoning behind the statement, as it's something I've experienced myself.

I'm also FH-oriented, and I also serve reverse pendulum from time to time. Most players I encounter don't dare go wide FH so I tend to still stay on the BH side to prepare for a return to the middle, which is where the ball will go if they don't firmly commit on the return and only vaguely aim for the BH. Unfortunately, this means I get caught out from time to time against better receivers who use the serve's side spin to simply guide the ball to the other corner.

I think that's another related example of the relation between the serve and where we stand after the serve, how we want to play the third ball.

Edited by Bran - 06/26/2017 at 4:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

That is the reason why I made this thread!!

So you did start this thread NOT to discuss about this topic?

You only wanted to have your/ EmRatThich's opinion confirmed?
Yes, I was unsure as to whether this was a thing, Emratthich himself validated it on the thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

That is the reason why I made this thread!!

So you did start this thread NOT to discuss about this topic?

You only wanted to have your/ EmRatThich's opinion confirmed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by Bran Bran wrote:

A FH dominant player will want to cover the table with his FH after the serve, including by stepping around his BH. He will anticipate this by positioning himself more to the BH after his serve. Regular pendulum has side spin that makes the ball naturally go to the BH, and conversely makes it harder for the receiver to put it wide to the FH, which is the hardest to cover in that position.

A BH dominant or balanced player will reposition himself more to the middle of the table, so his weakness in this case is a wide ball to the BH. Similarly, a reverse pendulum makes it harder to put the ball there, since the side spin naturally makes it drift towards the FH.

This.

Much of the other claims in the thread don't make sense.

Yes, this makes sense.
However, it is a very unflexible approach.

I am a VH dominant player. I use the RPS a lot. Due to the sidespin I impart on the ball, the return of the opponent always tends towards my VH side. Although my opponents need to direct their bat towards my backhand side to compensate for the sidespin, they almost always return to my middle or VH side. Since I know in advance that the return will probably be directed towards the middle/vh side, I am able to attack with my dominant VH. Of course I position myself more to the middle in case I use the RPS.

Even when it makes sense that you will serve in a way to prevent your opponent from out-placing you it makes even more sense to serve in a way to be able to attack with your dominant side.  

Maybe if you reach a very high level it is more important to prevent your opponent from attacking your weak spot after your serve, but I see myself in a dominant position when serving. Therefore I am trying to serve in a way to open up with my dominant VH and even my main practice partner, who is a former national team member and German Bundesliga player, cannot out-place me into my wide VH after using the RPS.

Furthermore there is one prominent example for a VH dominant player who is using the RPS a lot: Timo Boll.


Boll switches grips heavily between forehand and backhand, so while his forehand is arguably better than his backhand, he has a strong backhand as well due to the change in grips.

Of course, Ma Long has a reverse and ZJK has a pendulum, and while it isn't "ideal" for their game, it is needed to create serve diversity which is just as important at an elite level
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by Bran Bran wrote:

A FH dominant player will want to cover the table with his FH after the serve, including by stepping around his BH. He will anticipate this by positioning himself more to the BH after his serve. Regular pendulum has side spin that makes the ball naturally go to the BH, and conversely makes it harder for the receiver to put it wide to the FH, which is the hardest to cover in that position.

A BH dominant or balanced player will reposition himself more to the middle of the table, so his weakness in this case is a wide ball to the BH. Similarly, a reverse pendulum makes it harder to put the ball there, since the side spin naturally makes it drift towards the FH.

This.

Much of the other claims in the thread don't make sense.
That is the reason why I made this thread!! It seems counter intuitive but Bran and Emratthich clearly and logically explain why this is a thing.

Ovtcharov, FZD, ZJK all have killer reverse/bh serves.

Ma Long/Yan An/Ding Ning have their trademark pendulum and REVERSE tomahawk serves (which has the same spin as pendulum, ever wonder why DN doesn't use normal tomahawk)?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by Bran Bran wrote:

A FH dominant player will want to cover the table with his FH after the serve, including by stepping around his BH. He will anticipate this by positioning himself more to the BH after his serve. Regular pendulum has side spin that makes the ball naturally go to the BH, and conversely makes it harder for the receiver to put it wide to the FH, which is the hardest to cover in that position.

A BH dominant or balanced player will reposition himself more to the middle of the table, so his weakness in this case is a wide ball to the BH. Similarly, a reverse pendulum makes it harder to put the ball there, since the side spin naturally makes it drift towards the FH.

This.

Much of the other claims in the thread don't make sense.

Yes, this makes sense.
However, it is a very unflexible approach.

I am a VH dominant player. I use the RPS a lot. Due to the sidespin I impart on the ball, the return of the opponent always tends towards my VH side. Although my opponents need to direct their bat towards my backhand side to compensate for the sidespin, they almost always return to my middle or VH side. Since I know in advance that the return will probably be directed towards the middle/vh side, I am able to attack with my dominant VH. Of course I position myself more to the middle in case I use the RPS.

Even when it makes sense that you will serve in a way to prevent your opponent from out-placing you it makes even more sense to serve in a way to be able to attack with your dominant side.  

Maybe if you reach a very high level it is more important to prevent your opponent from attacking your weak spot after your serve, but I see myself in a dominant position when serving. Therefore I am trying to serve in a way to open up with my dominant VH and even my main practice partner, who is a former national team member and German Bundesliga player, cannot out-place me into my wide VH after using the RPS.

Furthermore there is one prominent example for a VH dominant player who is using the RPS a lot: Timo Boll.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2017 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Bran Bran wrote:

A FH dominant player will want to cover the table with his FH after the serve, including by stepping around his BH. He will anticipate this by positioning himself more to the BH after his serve. Regular pendulum has side spin that makes the ball naturally go to the BH, and conversely makes it harder for the receiver to put it wide to the FH, which is the hardest to cover in that position.

A BH dominant or balanced player will reposition himself more to the middle of the table, so his weakness in this case is a wide ball to the BH. Similarly, a reverse pendulum makes it harder to put the ball there, since the side spin naturally makes it drift towards the FH.

This.

Much of the other claims in the thread don't make sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2017 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I mostly agree with that.  One observation I have is that people tend to play against spin, rather than with spin.  I prefer to open with the BH, so a reverse pendulum serve affords me more opportunities to do so.  If the opponent figures out how to return the reverse pendulum in a way that is uncomfortable for me, I switch to a regular pendulum serve.

Against some people, mixing up serves is the only viable way to go.  Against others, I can sit on one serve for a while until they get used to it.  It really varies.

ILya
Yeah agree,

Ovtcharov has a nasty pendulum, ZJK and FZD always had.

Ma Long, Mizutani, Yan An have the occasional reverse, notice that they rarely serve it as often as their BH oriented compatriots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2017 at 10:24pm
I mostly agree with that.  One observation I have is that people tend to play against spin, rather than with spin.  I prefer to open with the BH, so a reverse pendulum serve affords me more opportunities to do so.  If the opponent figures out how to return the reverse pendulum in a way that is uncomfortable for me, I switch to a regular pendulum serve.

Against some people, mixing up serves is the only viable way to go.  Against others, I can sit on one serve for a while until they get used to it.  It really varies.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 10:10am
I honestly believe the pendulum forehand and reverse pendulum backhand dynamic is a bit overrated. Any form of pendulum serve is based on a desire to open with the forehand, even the reverse pendulum. Many backhand oriented players do not want to do a cross step to the wide forehand but that is supposedly what they have to do if they are to follow the traditional logic for doing and placing reverse pendulum serves.

I just look at what sidespin and placement my opponent doesn't return well and play off that. I really don't care what serve or spin it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 10:01am
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.


Not sure how you force that, but my default mode of receiving reverse pendulums (especially those to the BH) is to jam the middle. It also happens to be the safest receive... It's usually quite difficult to put it to the FH because your bat would be angled towards the BH side to counteract the sidespin...


So, either you are returning these serves very well or your opponents do not put a lot of side spin into their serves.

Nah, pendulum serves are better for forehand oriented players. Reverse serves are for backhand oriented players, tactically.

You want to be in the dominant position, which is using your forehand on the backhand side, jammed to the opponent's backhand. If you open up with forehand on the forehand side, you will be playing to their strength, and playing down the line is weaker and will allow them to force you wide to the backhand.




I was referring to my way of playing. If you guys now better what my experience is, then so be it...
Huh? This thread was to discuss optimal tactics depending on playing style, looking at two polar extremes (complete forehand biased vs backhand biased player)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.


Not sure how you force that, but my default mode of receiving reverse pendulums (especially those to the BH) is to jam the middle. It also happens to be the safest receive... It's usually quite difficult to put it to the FH because your bat would be angled towards the BH side to counteract the sidespin...


So, either you are returning these serves very well or your opponents do not put a lot of side spin into their serves.

Personally, once I identify the serve as a RPS serve, I automatically angle the bat towards your BH side to counteract the sidespin as that is the safest way of handling the ball. This leads to more often than not the ball being placed there... the down-the-line push to your FH is of higher risk (because you're essentially borrowing the opponent's spin, and there's less table length to work with) and going to the FH of a FH dominant player is usually suicide :(

I notice that a lot of my hook serves (which have the same amount of sidespin) also get pushed back to my BH in a similar fashion, not many players dare to play the return down the line to my FH...   

Now if you serve the RPS to the FH-short corner, most likely you would be facing a short push to your FH/middle corner, a long-push to the middle, or a flip in general. For shakehand players this serve is kryptonite as the FH receive there is just not very flexible unlike the BH. The problem with serving to the FH-short corner is there's a lot less room for error in terms of serve length, it is very easy to accidentally serve long and get punished by the opponent's FH loop.  

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 9:04am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

There is no point in wasting that much time learning the reverse pendulum serve when you can get the same ball rotation with a backhand serve facing the table.


reverse is more hard to read


Agreed...

I happen to think that the hook serve is even harder to read because they are so rare in the game, at my level they usually misread it the worst out of all my serve patterns, even the higher level players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.


Not sure how you force that, but my default mode of receiving reverse pendulums (especially those to the BH) is to jam the middle. It also happens to be the safest receive... It's usually quite difficult to put it to the FH because your bat would be angled towards the BH side to counteract the sidespin...


So, either you are returning these serves very well or your opponents do not put a lot of side spin into their serves.

Nah, pendulum serves are better for forehand oriented players. Reverse serves are for backhand oriented players, tactically.

You want to be in the dominant position, which is using your forehand on the backhand side, jammed to the opponent's backhand. If you open up with forehand on the forehand side, you will be playing to their strength, and playing down the line is weaker and will allow them to force you wide to the backhand.




I was referring to my way of playing. If you guys now better what my experience is, then so be it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.


Not sure how you force that, but my default mode of receiving reverse pendulums (especially those to the BH) is to jam the middle. It also happens to be the safest receive... It's usually quite difficult to put it to the FH because your bat would be angled towards the BH side to counteract the sidespin...


So, either you are returning these serves very well or your opponents do not put a lot of side spin into their serves.
Nah, pendulum serves are better for forehand oriented players. Reverse serves are for backhand oriented players, tactically.

You want to be in the dominant position, which is using your forehand on the backhand side, jammed to the opponent's backhand. If you open up with forehand on the forehand side, you will be playing to their strength, and playing down the line is weaker and will allow them to force you wide to the backhand.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 11:45am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

There is no point in wasting that much time learning the reverse pendulum serve when you can get the same ball rotation with a backhand serve facing the table.


reverse is more hard to read
It's not about the magnitude of the spin, it's about how you can use it (via deception) against your opponent :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 11:37am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.


Not sure how you force that, but my default mode of receiving reverse pendulums (especially those to the BH) is to jam the middle. It also happens to be the safest receive... It's usually quite difficult to put it to the FH because your bat would be angled towards the BH side to counteract the sidespin...


So, either you are returning these serves very well or your opponents do not put a lot of side spin into their serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 10:32am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

There is no point in wasting that much time learning the reverse pendulum serve when you can get the same ball rotation with a backhand serve facing the table.


reverse is more hard to read
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 6:51am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

The RPS is hugely overestimated. Nothing special about it. You can get the same spin and direction of rotation with a simple backhand serve while facing the table, ready for the return. I can't stop laughing when I see many beginners trying to master this serve because they saw some pro player using it.
Ok, but my point was there is significantly more deception if you can do a reverse properly, which, once you pass the threshold level that the majority of players can fully read your backspin serves, it won't be difficult to serve a decent reverse. Make sense? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 6:20am
Originally posted by Liquid Sky Liquid Sky wrote:

Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.


Not sure how you force that, but my default mode of receiving reverse pendulums (especially those to the BH) is to jam the middle. It also happens to be the safest receive... It's usually quite difficult to put it to the FH because your bat would be angled towards the BH side to counteract the sidespin...
-------
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 5:47am
Yes, with a backhand serve you can basically create the same serves as with the RPS. However from my experience people are very used to backhand serves and can read the sound easily while they are not used to the seldomly used RPS.

Furthermore I cannot follow the arguments about RPS and backhand dominance. As I am a forehand dominant player I like to open up with my forehand after the serve. Therefore I use the RPS a lot to get returns played into my forehand side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 5:45am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:


The RPS is hugely overestimated. Nothing special about it. You can get the same spin and direction of rotation with a simple backhand serve while facing the table, ready for the return. I can't stop laughing when I see many beginners trying to master this serve because they saw some pro player using it.


Not many players use it well enough because it's very insanely complicated... But I've encountered some really nasty ones from high level players... Personally I like hook serves like Miu Hirano's ones, they are just extremely effective and easy to learn too! I do all my serves with a full grip now, it's just too much work to change grips after service...
-------
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BH: D05

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 3:13am
The RPS is hugely overestimated. Nothing special about it. You can get the same spin and direction of rotation with a simple backhand serve while facing the table, ready for the return. I can't stop laughing when I see many beginners trying to master this serve because they saw some pro player using it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2017 at 2:09am
I love reverse pendulum when using Innerforce ZLC from time to time. It's so natural, easy to place and deceptive but it's not at all the same with the Viscaria Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

There is no point in wasting that much time learning the reverse pendulum serve when you can get the same ball rotation with a backhand serve facing the table.
That's a poor analogy, just like saying, there's no point saving money to buy a Benz if you have a lower quality functional car.

Backhand serve has way less deception which is significant once you pass a certain level threshold.
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