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What is the key to utilising a Chinese rubber well

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Hozuki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:


The idea that Ma Long uses a low throw rubber is just silly. Throw is not only about the rubber, it is also about the stroke. A faster stroke gets a higher throw with a harder sponge.

That's why Hozuki's original comment had me scratching my head. H3 is a fine rubber for aggressive looping.   You just have to decide whether you want to out in the effort as just about any European rubber is easier to spin with
The real advantages of H3 are the top end power and the short game control and deception.


That's a contradiction. If a faster stroke gets higher throw with harder sponge, and ML uses hard sponge, then how do you explain that ML's fast and vertical strokes make the ball leave the racket in a straight line when looping, hm? The only way that can happen is if the rubber is very low throw. I'm sorry, but arguing that the idea of ML using low throw is silly in such a way, makes me question your basic reasoning skills.

Also, I never said that H3 is not a good rubber. It does have the advantages you mentioned. However, H2 has the same advantages, just more pronounced, making it the superior rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 10:18pm
These are my pretty basic understandings of the mechanics of a rubber. I am not a physicist (or a scientist at all), but this is how I think the rubber works. I am probably wrong, so feel free to correct me as long as you know that what you are saying is actually correct.

When you loop with a more vertical motion, you engage the sponge less. Therefore, the properties of the harder sponge that create higher throw are negated by the use of the topsheet instead of sponge. When the sponge is engaged, it compresses and springs back. The pip structure of the rubber will determine the throw as well, as they are displaced upon impact and are pushed back into place by the sponge and the elastic properties of the topsheet. The grip of the topsheet also affects throw, if it is grippy or tacky, the ball will not slip and will throw higher. Softness comes in to play as well. The softer a sponge or topsheet is, the higher it will throw at low speeds. This is because the ball will sink in to the rubber further, increasing the surface area of rubber in contact with the ball, which increases friction between the ball and the rubber. This causes a higher throw. However, when you reach high speeds, the softer sponges cannot take all of the ball's energy. The ball is coming in with too much energy, so it compresses the sponge all the way, and the remaining energy goes in to the blade. Of course some energy always goes in to the blade, but in this situation, it is much more. Blades are obviously much bouncier than rubbers (meaning the ball stays in contact when bounced on a blade for a shorter duration than when bounced on a rubber). So, when you bottom out the sponge and the power comes from the blade, you get a lower throw because the blade's properties rebound the ball faster, which does not allow the rubber to push the ball up as it normally would. This is why 0X users are picky about what rubber they have on the other side, because the rubber always 'bottoms out' for them, and the energy even goes through the blade and in to the rubber on the other side. So, the playing properties are changed by what is on the other side for them. Harder sponges are much harder to bottom out, so they will throw higher at high speeds. But, if you use the topsheet more (by utilising a vertical stroke), you will not be using the sponge, and the ball will throw lower, because there is no 'spring' action. It is like playing with 0X (not really, don't flame me for that analogy). 

Sorry for the wall of text, I should have spaced that out.


Edited by Chairman Meow - 06/11/2017 at 10:18pm
(Blade-FH-BH)
-BBC 1 ply Cypress 10mm "The Castigator"
-H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg.
-H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.15mm 39 deg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurokami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:01pm
Next Level is right. it's a lot about the stroke and how you hit the rubber. I can hit both high arc and very linear, low shots with the same racket depending on what i want to do.

@OP CNT does not have "custom low throw" versions of the same rubber. I've used wang liqin's neo national h3. the only thing they do is tune the sponge. it's the same topsheet. 

they did use tg3 neo for awhile. in general ppl don't use it bc the quality is known to be lower than hurricane. 
Viscaria / T05 / T80
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

 
The idea that Ma Long uses a low throw rubber is just silly. Throw is not only about the rubber, it is also about the stroke. A faster stroke gets a higher throw with a harder sponge.
I think ML does use a very low throw rubber, have you seen how vertical his stroke is in comparison with European players? His stroke is also fast, which you said means higher throw

He is brushing the ball so hard that the way you think of throw is insignificant compared to how hard he is hitting the ball.  If you did that stroke with Tenergy 05, in Timo Boll's words, that ball would go into the net.  You still think that is low throw?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:


That's a contradiction. If a faster stroke gets higher throw with harder sponge, and ML uses hard sponge, then how do you explain that ML's fast and vertical strokes make the ball leave the racket in a straight line when looping, hm? The only way that can happen is if the rubber is very low throw. I'm sorry, but arguing that the idea of ML using low throw is silly in such a way, makes me question your basic reasoning skills.

  1. Boosting reduces throw (increases speed / spin ratio). May be ML tunes his H3 Neo.
  2. Ma Long hits on top of the ball (with horizontal blade face) a lot (see video below)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:


The idea that Ma Long uses a low throw rubber is just silly. Throw is not only about the rubber, it is also about the stroke. A faster stroke gets a higher throw with a harder sponge.

That's why Hozuki's original comment had me scratching my head. H3 is a fine rubber for aggressive looping.   You just have to decide whether you want to out in the effort as just about any European rubber is easier to spin with
The real advantages of H3 are the top end power and the short game control and deception.


That's a contradiction. If a faster stroke gets higher throw with harder sponge, and ML uses hard sponge, then how do you explain that ML's fast and vertical strokes make the ball leave the racket in a straight line when looping, hm? The only way that can happen is if the rubber is very low throw. I'm sorry, but arguing that the idea of ML using low throw is silly in such a way, makes me question your basic reasoning skills.

Also, I never said that H3 is not a good rubber. It does have the advantages you mentioned. However, H2 has the same advantages, just more pronounced, making it the superior rubber.

Because those strokes would go into the net if the rubber had a lower throw or a softer sponge/topsheet and the speed of the stroke is so fast that he is getting a great arc relative to the speed of the stroke.  THat's the true benefit of very hard sponge Chinese rubber when looping (or even European rubber), you have to create the spin yourself but once you do, your limit is much higher. because you can swing much harder    PEople who think Ma Longs stroke is vertical just don't get it, it is doing one thing at contact and a completely different thing at follow through and the height at which he swings is so low and with a different swing plane from most human beings.

Look at FZD in this video.  Is this the kind of vertical stroke you are talking about?  To me, this stroke is extremely horizontal, but I have heard many people call it vertical and they leave me puzzled. 

I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2017 at 11:54pm
NL, not pertaining to this discussion but didn't you tell me ML's stroke is 60 degrees and I should get a protractor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 12:17am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

NL, not pertaining to this discussion but didn't you tell me ML's stroke is 60 degrees and I should get a protractor?

That sounds a lot like my brand of sarcasm.  I remember telling you a lot of other things as well, but I would do both of us a disservice if I told the details as I remembered them.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 1:14am
Chairman Meow is on point. The extreme hardness of CNT's H3 make the throw very low, unless the ball comes in at higher speed, then the sponge compresses more and throws it out higher. slevin, that's exactly why in your video ML closes his racket angle when doing countertops (and against topspin you have to close the racket face anyways) For most shots, their rubbers are low throw.

NextLevel, I have several issues with what you wrote.
First of all, where did Timo Boll say that a H3 brushing stroke would go into the net with T05?
It's rather the opposite, the average T05 player would not clear the net with H3. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what TB himself has posted in a german forum. I'd be happy to search for an exact link if you doubt me.

Secondly, "Because those strokes would go into the net if the rubber had a lower throw or a softer sponge/topsheet and the speed of the stroke is so fast that he is getting a great arc relative to the speed of the stroke." is not an argument that the rubber is not low throw. You merely make a relative statement, which does not prove anything about the actual throw of the rubber.

Also you claim that ML's stroke is not so vertical. That is partly true, especially against block. However, ML or FZD (in your video) can afford to hit rather forward horizontally, because they hit it very fast and with a lot of spin. So that's also not an argument against CNT's rubbers being low throw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 2:25am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:


The idea that Ma Long uses a low throw rubber is just silly. Throw is not only about the rubber, it is also about the stroke. A faster stroke gets a higher throw with a harder sponge.

That's why Hozuki's original comment had me scratching my head. H3 is a fine rubber for aggressive looping.   You just have to decide whether you want to out in the effort as just about any European rubber is easier to spin with
The real advantages of H3 are the top end power and the short game control and deception.


That's a contradiction. If a faster stroke gets higher throw with harder sponge, and ML uses hard sponge, then how do you explain that ML's fast and vertical strokes make the ball leave the racket in a straight line when looping, hm? The only way that can happen is if the rubber is very low throw. I'm sorry, but arguing that the idea of ML using low throw is silly in such a way, makes me question your basic reasoning skills.

Also, I never said that H3 is not a good rubber. It does have the advantages you mentioned. However, H2 has the same advantages, just more pronounced, making it the superior rubber.

Because those strokes would go into the net if the rubber had a lower throw or a softer sponge/topsheet and the speed of the stroke is so fast that he is getting a great arc relative to the speed of the stroke.  THat's the true benefit of very hard sponge Chinese rubber when looping (or even European rubber), you have to create the spin yourself but once you do, your limit is much higher. because you can swing much harder    PEople who think Ma Longs stroke is vertical just don't get it, it is doing one thing at contact and a completely different thing at follow through and the height at which he swings is so low and with a different swing plane from most human beings.

Look at FZD in this video.  Is this the kind of vertical stroke you are talking about?  To me, this stroke is extremely horizontal, but I have heard many people call it vertical and they leave me puzzled. 


+1. Also what you hear is the sound of heavy rubber/sponge engagement, not just "brushing". 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 6:16am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Chairman Meow is on point. The extreme hardness of CNT's H3 make the throw very low, unless the ball comes in at higher speed, then the sponge compresses more and throws it out higher. slevin, that's exactly why in your video ML closes his racket angle when doing countertops (and against topspin you have to close the racket face anyways) For most shots, their rubbers are low throw.

NextLevel, I have several issues with what you wrote.
First of all, where did Timo Boll say that a H3 brushing stroke would go into the net with T05?
It's rather the opposite, the average T05 player would not clear the net with H3. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what TB himself has posted in a german forum. I'd be happy to search for an exact link if you doubt me.

Secondly, "Because those strokes would go into the net if the rubber had a lower
throw or a softer sponge/topsheet and the speed of the stroke is so fast
that he is getting a great arc relative to the speed of the stroke." is not an argument that the rubber is not low throw. You merely make a relative statement, which does not prove anything about the actual throw of the rubber.

Also you claim that ML's stroke is not so vertical. That is partly true, especially against block. However, ML or FZD (in your video) can afford to hit rather forward horizontally, because they hit it very fast and with a lot of spin. So that's also not an argument against CNT's rubbers being low throw.


Since I agree with Chairman Meow and you disagree with me, then this has become semantic. Any professional player can produce a low throw ball with any rubber, if you don't have the technique, you don't have the technique.

Edited by NextLevel - 06/12/2017 at 6:17am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 9:37am
First you call it silly, then suddenly you agree to CNT's H3s to be low throw for most shots and then calling this contradiction a semantic issue? I'm afraid I cannot follow you there.

I agree that you can produce similar arcs with different throw rubbers with a change in technique. The bounce on the table will still be drastically different, though. High throw bounces upward, low throw kicks away low.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 9:40am
Well this got out of hand lol. We all know Ma Long and many other CNT players use H3 with a hard blue sponge . It makes zero sense to say its H2 or some other rubber cause if Ma Long wanted H2 he would use H2 . Why would DHS make an H2(or other type) top sheet and stamp it H3? It makes zero sense plus it would be illegal. He would just use H2 national like Liqin did. Every time there has to be some weird conspiracy theory about CNT player equipment.

Edited by jpenmaster - 06/12/2017 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 10:19am
Sadly we cannot look behind the scenes, so I can't claim anything about that. Maybe they found that their sponges work better with H3 topsheet. Since you can't buy those, the closest thing you can get trajectory wise is H2, IMO. What I will claim though, is that H2 is much more effective while not being as safe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 10:29am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

First you call it silly, then suddenly you agree to CNT's H3s to be low throw for most shots and then calling this contradiction a semantic issue? I'm afraid I cannot follow you there.

I agree that you can produce similar arcs with different throw rubbers with a change in technique. The bounce on the table will still be drastically different, though. High throw bounces upward, low throw kicks away low.
High throw does not bounce upward - topspin kicks forward as well as upwards and any high spin rubber kicks forward after the bounce.  It is the stroke path and ball height predominantly that makes the ball kick upward, not the rubber.

The problem here, IMO, is that you don't seem to realize that Tenergy 05 flattens out at high swing speeds while hard sponged H3 does not.


Edited by NextLevel - 06/12/2017 at 10:31am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 11:07am
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:


Would that be smart from a T05 user's perspective? I'm a backhand oriented player so my forehand isn't the strongest at my playing level :(

My forehand from a few months back looks like this (from 0:46 to 1:09) - what adjustments would I need to make to switch from T05 to H3 Neo (apart from hardness)



I don't think either player should switch to H3N.  The T05 spin and arc look nice.  Besides, why start tuning now when you are doing well completely clean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 11:45am
Well I think we have to agree to disagree, NextLevel. My experiences seem to be vastly different from yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Well I think we have to agree to disagree, NextLevel. My experiences seem to be vastly different from yours.

If/when you post video of your strokes we can resolve the differences. I find that whenever I get into extended firms of these debates and I see the strokes if who I am discussing with, I tend to understand why the discussion takes forever. I tend to have a relatively thick impact on my loops so the kind of throw that you are focused on is almost non-existent in my general looping practice.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2017 at 1:58am
anyone who's spent time with H3 knows that you can adjust the shape of the arc by how closed or how open the face of the blade is during the loop.

for drive loops (ahhhh convex) the arc might start higher and have a more rapid drop near the end of it's flight...

for spin loops (ahhhh concave) the arc might be more even, and longer, with the peak of the height clearing net level...

imho, this ability to create different shaped attacks is what makes H3 and other classic rubbers interesting. 

it's why i might stray for a while, but I always seem to come back to DHS.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mon22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2017 at 7:41am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

anyone who's spent time with H3 knows that you can adjust the shape of the arc by how closed or how open the face of the blade is during the loop.

for drive loops (ahhhh convex) the arc might start higher and have a more rapid drop near the end of it's flight...

for spin loops (ahhhh concave) the arc might be more even, and longer, with the peak of the height clearing net level...

imho, this ability to create different shaped attacks is what makes H3 and other classic rubbers interesting. 

it's why i might stray for a while, but I always seem to come back to DHS.



+1

Changing tension on grip allows you to spin or speed things up as well (courtesy of emratthicke videos, I recently discovered this and it changed my game completely)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote man_iii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 12:46am
The faster the swing, the less contact time is there on the ball ? The thicker the contact, the more sponge+blade is engaged? The more vertical the stroke, the far more amount of sponge backing the rubber is in effect when contacting the ball ?

So a tacky+high-speed+vertical stroke+thinner contact ==> max topsheet +max sponge engagement ===>highest-arc return possible with the rubber ? 

I would guess that max arc possible at the maximum rubber+sponge effect combined with the kind of fast vertical thin stroke means that CNT players DO NOT engage the blade ( i.e. dont bottom out the sponge at the fastest stroke ) when looping. 

This must be the "safety" stroke that will work against EVERY type of return ball that is long. 

Also, if the ball hardly clears the net while engaging the full rubber effect without involving the blade, at such a fine contact and fast stroke, isn't that indicative that the rubber is low-throw ? The arc being generated by the player contact angle stroke length speed etc ? Rubber can't really lift the ball all by itself, but with the right powerful player and correct stroke the ball "magically" seems to clear the net loaded with spin and decent speed ?

Someone with more insight into the mechanics pls explain! Thanks!

I am just a beginner TT player so please don't attack me :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 2:32am
My suggestion is don't use Chinese rubbers, too difficult to control. You also have to boost it to get the best out of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote man_iii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 4:58am
Well I use chinese-type rubbers because it works for me. Mostly 729- rubbers. Euro rubbers are too fast and uncontrollable for me.  I should think each person's play style and preference will allow different rubbers to work very well for each player. 

Also not all rubbers need to be boosted either due to the rubber being already good or due to factory pre-tuning / boosting before packaging. 

Understanding the mechanics and learning to use to the best ability possible by the player and the rubber is important. 

Coaches might have differing opinions and so would a lot of players. Point won doesn't matter how u got the point. But I am not yet at a level where winning points is the sole objective or the primary objective. :-D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 7:21am
Well with tacky hard rubbers you need to hit the ball hard and hit the gym lol.... From my experience you need a much more open blade angle than tensors, most of your failed shots will hit the net rather than out, and is usually because you were not in position and didn't use your body or legs correctly. It forces good technique out of you as you're punished pretty badly if you have bad strokes. Good side is that it gives you a lot more control when attacking because of the linear response, you have very little fear of hitting too hard which is really comforting for someone who hits hard. The hard spinny shots you create with tacky rubbers can be killer...in my case very few players can block those shots, even those a few levels higher. But if you're caught out of position or if you're reaching the point is mostly over because it's so hard to generate pace in those situations...You also get amazing spin and control on your serves and short game which gives you a lot of advantages.

If you're young and want to get a better workout, or want to play more physically with a focus on serves, short game and attack then switch to hard, slow tacky rubbers. You can always switch back if you hate the rubber...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Well I think we have to agree to disagree, NextLevel. My experiences seem to be vastly different from yours.

If/when you post video of your strokes we can resolve the differences. I find that whenever I get into extended firms of these debates and I see the strokes if who I am discussing with, I tend to understand why the discussion takes forever. I tend to have a relatively thick impact on my loops so the kind of throw that you are focused on is almost non-existent in my general looping practice.
Someone cowered away from discussion lol
Custom Viscaria 91g
H3 Neo Boosted 41/2.2
T64 2.1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 7:11pm
You are misunderstanding. I merely don't want to commit the folly of investing time I don't have in proving the obvious. Also, the debate was about CNT's H3s being low throw and not me and my H2, so recording myself has little to no explanatory value in the first place. But obviously you were aware of that and just trolling around, since surely nobody could be this dense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comodoensis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2017 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

anyone who's spent time with H3 knows that you can adjust the shape of the arc by how closed or how open the face of the blade is during the loop.

for drive loops (ahhhh convex) the arc might start higher and have a more rapid drop near the end of it's flight...

for spin loops (ahhhh concave) the arc might be more even, and longer, with the peak of the height clearing net level...

imho, this ability to create different shaped attacks is what makes H3 and other classic rubbers interesting. 

it's why i might stray for a while, but I always seem to come back to DHS.



+2

The magic of h3 is when one gets to used to engage the sponge/make the momentum(impact). Once the user gets to used to engaging sponge in every offensive stroke, all that is need to be done is adjust the blade angle, and the brushing/driving portion. i.e. : against backspin/dead ball, more brushing is needed. Make the impact (or most people called it 'weight transfer'), once the sponge is engaged, brush it forward. If you have adequate or more power and acceleration to negate the rotation of the ball (or to create more rotation if dealing with dead ball) , the higher contact point you can make toward the ball, which means more closed blade angle, and resulting in a less parabolic, yet longer ball trajectory. Less engaging, merely brushing, will ends up with higher parabolic curve, and a tad shorter ball trajectory, especially when the followthrough is perpendicular to blade angle.

Against topspin/block, simply change the contact point to the highest contact point of the ball depending on ball height, and give the same 'impact' to the ball, and the same, followthrough perpendicular with blade angle. Different ball height means different contact point of the ball, also affecting the followthrough a bit on this case.

Most people gets the ball into the net or flying out of the table because of the followthrough that is not perpendicular enough with the blade angle.

Sounds complicated, but once one gets used to it, more pressure/longer trajectory, more spin, more speed, more penetrating second speed/bounce. The downside of it is, it does takes a lot of intensive training, good endurance to make all those 'magics' happen.

P.S. : it does crampes up my bicep, tricep, deltoid, upper pectoral, hip, thigh, and knee just to be back in former performance after almost a year without any intensive training, espescially with the new regular H3P which is not as crisp as the old one, and the plastic ball makes it worse LoL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2017 at 4:22pm
If you like to loop consistently with forward stroke and closed angle -> h3
If you like to loop agressively with more physical effort, upward stroke, direct trajectory and open angle -> h2

Both can be effective rubbers depending on your preferences.

Edited by Hozuki - 07/14/2017 at 4:23pm
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