Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 2017 Japan Open June 14-June 18 Tokyo
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

2017 Japan Open June 14-June 18 Tokyo

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 91011
Author
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2457
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 2:54pm
With coaching, FZD may have abetter chance of winning, but OTH, with coaching ML may not loose that 2nd set.  For me if you loose twice in a row to the same player, with time in between to watch video, and analyze the game, it usually mean that your game is not quite there yet.
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

No way the ball hit miu first (~22:03), stupid ref LOL
===============
The ball hit Suh Hyowon's shirt.
Oh my bad Embarrassed
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 3179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

With coaching, FZD may have abetter chance of winning, but OTH, with coaching ML may not loose that 2nd set.  For me if you loose twice in a row to the same player, with time in between to watch video, and analyze the game, it usually mean that your game is not quite there yet.
As I mentioned earlier, you cannot count the CTTSL matches results, and there are so many many attributes to determine which players will have access to better resources. Did CNT withhold info FZD, or provide ML an "advantage"? We did not know. 

Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
ttTurkey View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/07/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttTurkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2017 at 9:58pm
I find the implication that Ma Long's wins and dominance is somehow dimished because he can't win when playing directly into Fan Zhendong's strengths or that FZD can hit the ball harder quite bizarre.

I think it is a very rare situation where the world #1 in a one on one sport can defeat the world #2 when playing into the greatest strength of the #2.

Call it tactics, common sense or having a brain, but a major part of sport is channeling the play in such a way that you have the advantage.

Also, the person with the best blend of power, control, touch, tactics and mental toughness wins. If it was power alone that counted, FZD would dominate table tennis, Raonic would be winning grand slams, the long drive guys would win golf majors etc.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 11560
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 5:48am
Maybe I am just forgetting what it was like to be 20. I doubt it. People are missing the point almost deliberately. The result is the result and Ma Long is the better player.   The question is whether Ma Long is better because FZD lacks some specific technical skill that Ma Long exploits.   My answer is no. Of course, when you are losing all the time to someone else under specific circumstances, it is easy for people to underestimate the psychological effect of that. You aren't going to replace the edge of 8 years of competitive experience by talking about things like touch, tempo changes etc. The only thing that really comes close to levelling that is coaching as a coach can give you real time feedback and perspective that you cannot have about what is going on.

The CNT would lose a lot more than many people realize without the benefit of their coaching staff.

Edited by NextLevel - 06/21/2017 at 5:50am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
True Carbon FL
FH: Vega Pro 2.0 B
BH: Vega Pro 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
ttTurkey View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/07/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttTurkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 6:09am
I think the experience and tactics count for sure, but there is also a slight technical/skill difference on the short forehand side. A couple years ago I would have said that FZD had an actual weakness there. Now I would say that he has improved it to an area of less strength than the rest of his game, which is a relative weakness that only ML can exploit to a meaningful degree.

Another bugbear of mine is the notion that Wang Hao was ML's nemesis. By the time that the WTTC rolled around in 2011 and 2013, ML was already the best player in the world. His usual level was higher than the other guys and he had a very positive H2H against the other top guys during that period, including WH. He was pretty dominant on the pro tour although not as dominant as the past couple years. I think the ML/WH final H2H was roughly even with most of WH's wins being when ML was very young (the last 11 were 8-3 ML from memory).

I think that ML had a problem with choking in big events earlier in his career. Through coincidence he was drawn against WH in consecutive WTTC's, and both times WH put him out of his misery (I remember ML struggling through a match against Boll who he usually eats for breakfast before WH finished him). If ML had been drawn against ZJK both times then people would be saying that ZJK is ML's nemesis, whereas IMHO the choking was his nemesis.

I agree that coaching would help the younger guys and the calming influence of a coach could well have led to ML beating WH at those 2 WTTC's or FZD winning this year. Over the course of a career it all evens out (disadvantaged when you are young, advantaged when you are older) but as a fan I would prefer coaching to see the players at their best.

Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 11560
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by ttTurkey ttTurkey wrote:

I think the experience and tactics count for sure, but there is also a slight technical/skill difference on the short forehand side. A couple years ago I would have said that FZD had an actual weakness there. Now I would say that he has improved it to an area of less strength than the rest of his game, which is a relative weakness that only ML can exploit to a meaningful degree.

Another bugbear of mine is the notion that Wang Hao was ML's nemesis. By the time that the WTTC rolled around in 2011 and 2013, ML was already the best player in the world. His usual level was higher than the other guys and he had a very positive H2H against the other top guys during that period, including WH. He was pretty dominant on the pro tour although not as dominant as the past couple years. I think the ML/WH final H2H was roughly even with most of WH's wins being when ML was very young (the last 11 were 8-3 ML from memory).

I think that ML had a problem with choking in big events earlier in his career. Through coincidence he was drawn against WH in consecutive WTTC's, and both times WH put him out of his misery (I remember ML struggling through a match against Boll who he usually eats for breakfast before WH finished him). If ML had been drawn against ZJK both times then people would be saying that ZJK is ML's nemesis, whereas IMHO the choking was his nemesis.

I agree that coaching would help the younger guys and the calming influence of a coach could well have led to ML beating WH at those 2 WTTC's or FZD winning this year. Over the course of a career it all evens out (disadvantaged when you are young, advantaged when you are older) but as a fan I would prefer coaching to see the players at their best.


ML didn't just choke against WH - it is not an accident when ML goes as far as saying that LGL's recommendation that he should try Hurricane on his backhand was a major turning point in his career.  ML's overall BH play was a liability and at the right moments, WH knew how to exploit it.  WH beat Yan An in a similar way in the QF the same tournament.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
True Carbon FL
FH: Vega Pro 2.0 B
BH: Vega Pro 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 91011
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer