Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Do blades become soft over the course of play?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Do blades become soft over the course of play?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do blades become soft over the course of play?
    Posted: 06/12/2017 at 1:46pm
Sometime back, a former Indian National number 1 player told me that blades get soft after they go through some use. I did not think that that could have been true. However, recently, I am starting to notice that my Andro Treiber Z has softened up a lot. When it came in, it had a very nice crisp feel to it. Now, it feels mushy. 
Is there some merit in this thought that blades soften up as they age? Mine is only about 6-8 months old and was sealed using Joola blade sealant and has been never exposed to moisture as such. Just wondering! Thoughts?
Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
DLC1325 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/15/2016
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 148
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLC1325 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 2:18pm
I used a Dawei copy of an Ebenholz V for a long time.  Initially it was extremely hard and extremely stiff.  It had a very low throw unlike the Stiga Ebenholz V.  After about a year of use I could have sworn the throw was getting higher.  I didn't have to lift so hard to get the ball over the net.

I don't think its impossible for the wood to soften up much like a guitar "breaks in" over time.  Hell, I have two Waldner Limited Editions at the same exact weight and it seems like the one I've used more feels a touch softer and flexier than the lesser used one.  My imagination?  I don't think so.
YEO Cpen | MX-S | MX-P
Back to Top
iamj8 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/11/2009
Location: NZ
Status: Online
Points: 256
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamj8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 3:21pm
I think there's some merit to what you've been told. I have two Stiga Super Carbon WRB blades of the same composition and weight. One I began using in 2010 and the other had seen play since the mid 2000's. The older one was noticeably slower and felt a tiny bit mushy. I always thought this was mainly due to the fact no two pieces of wood are exactly the same but perhaps age and use have played a role.
A version of Hurricane 3
A version of Tenergy
A Stiga blade...
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 2941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 3:42pm
it does; I remember a CNT player told a reporter that she needed to change her blade every half year or so because the blade became soft. 
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 4:23pm
Is there a way to ensure that a blade doesn't soften up? The national team players can afford a new blade ever so often but we mortals cannot Smile My treiber's throw has actually gone lower than what it was in the beginning and the sound of rubbers on it has become non-existent now. This was all within a period of 8 months of which most of the time was spent on Timo Boll ALC, which I sold off thinking that I had a gem in my hand in Treiber Cry

Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2413
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 4:31pm
I think the soft fell is due to the glue is soften up, specially on the handle near the neck of the blade, and makes the blade a bit flexy, and feel soft.  Bend your blade a little bit and see if there is any separation between the handle and the blade.  Wrap the handle up tight will help stiffen the blade up,
Back to Top
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think the soft fell is due to the glue is soften up, specially on the handle near the neck of the blade, and makes the blade a bit flexy, and feel soft.  Bend your blade a little bit and see if there is any separation between the handle and the blade.  Wrap the handle up tight will help stiffen the blade up,

I have actually taken out and re-pasted my rubbers more than the number of times I would like to remember now LOL I did verify that that was not the case. Anyways, I did reseal the blade again as I do feel that some of the sealant has made its way out due to me heavily tuning and boosting the rubbers that I use. I will see if that helps anything in the crispness and report back. For now, looks like the adage around blade softening is somewhat real.
Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2413
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by anubhav1984 anubhav1984 wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think the soft fell is due to the glue is soften up, specially on the handle near the neck of the blade, and makes the blade a bit flexy, and feel soft.  Bend your blade a little bit and see if there is any separation between the handle and the blade.  Wrap the handle up tight will help stiffen the blade up,

I have actually taken out and re-pasted my rubbers more than the number of times I would like to remember now LOL I did verify that that was not the case. Anyways, I did reseal the blade again as I do feel that some of the sealant has made its way out due to me heavily tuning and boosting the rubbers that I use. I will see if that helps anything in the crispness and report back. For now, looks like the adage around blade softening is somewhat real.

Not the glue that glue the rubber to the blade.  The glue that hold the blade and the handle on the 2 sides together.
Back to Top
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by anubhav1984 anubhav1984 wrote:

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think the soft fell is due to the glue is soften up, specially on the handle near the neck of the blade, and makes the blade a bit flexy, and feel soft.  Bend your blade a little bit and see if there is any separation between the handle and the blade.  Wrap the handle up tight will help stiffen the blade up,

I have actually taken out and re-pasted my rubbers more than the number of times I would like to remember now LOL I did verify that that was not the case. Anyways, I did reseal the blade again as I do feel that some of the sealant has made its way out due to me heavily tuning and boosting the rubbers that I use. I will see if that helps anything in the crispness and report back. For now, looks like the adage around blade softening is somewhat real.

Not the glue that glue the rubber to the blade.  The glue that hold the blade and the handle on the 2 sides together.

Oh. Sorry, I misunderstood what you said earlier. No no...the ply looks excellent. There isn't any separation between handle and ply. Everything looks to be in perfect order. The soft feel is for real Smile
Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2841
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 6:26pm
Maybe you should be asking do blades get softer quicker from multiple boosting and gluing
as some people can keep the same blade for decades
Ulmo Duality,tibhar 5Q sound black, Dtechs grass ox red
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website,
Back to Top
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Maybe you should be asking do blades get softer quicker from multiple boosting and gluing
as some people can keep the same blade for decades

Perhaps. Thanks for the suggestion. Changing the subject line then Smile
Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2017 at 6:44pm
Can't seem to have an option to edit the topic. Will stick with this thread. But for the benefit of other folks landing on this thread, the new question that I am trying to get an answer for is -
do blades get softer quicker from multiple boosting and gluing?

Thoughts? Experiences?
Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
Taijibulldog View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 05/27/2017
Location: MARYLAND
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taijibulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 2:45am
yes reseal it , but not with normal sealant, use polyurethane. it will not only protect better and longer but it will also restore a bit of added stiffness that you're lacking now. it will be subtle but noticeable
WE NEED EACH OTHER, MIGHT AS WELL SHARE IJS !!!!!
Back to Top
Fabian1890 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/15/2017
Location: Germany
Status: Online
Points: 47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 5:05am
there is some german interview with Dima Ovtcharov where he said that he changes every 3 months or so because the new water based glue makes the blade softer.
Back to Top
arg0 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/22/2009
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 5:11am
...and because his sponsor hopes to sell more blades this way.
Nexy Lissom & Nittaku Violin LG.
Join FOTB and Nexy Clan.
Member: Nexy, Violin & 1-Ply Clans.
Back to Top
wanhao View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07/14/2014
Location: south east asia
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanhao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 5:37am
Waterglue mostly contain water...so obviously it soak into the woods..

Edited by wanhao - 06/13/2017 at 5:37am
Back to Top
arg0 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/22/2009
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 6:32am
One should allow the remaining humidity to evaporate when changing rubbers.
Then you only get once the amount of water from the glue and it does not add up.

I see a potential market for vapour-permeable rubbers :)
Nexy Lissom & Nittaku Violin LG.
Join FOTB and Nexy Clan.
Member: Nexy, Violin & 1-Ply Clans.
Back to Top
Stavros View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/02/2006
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 1359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 10:18am
During VOC glue era I was changing blade every 5 years.
During water glue era I change blade every year.

Water glue softens blade .
Infinity VPS V
T05 * Quantum S
Back to Top
jonyer1980 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/30/2008
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 1272
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 11:12am
Porous blades get softer easier because of the wbg or moisture, however some hardwood blades barely change, bacuase of their crappy NCT sealant (Rosewood series)

Edited by jonyer1980 - 06/13/2017 at 11:13am
Rosewood NCT V 86 gr Master

Thibar MX-P MAX FH

Thibar FX-S BH



Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11459
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 1:34pm
My series H Viscaria is not softer than new ones.
Back to Top
anubhav1984 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/08/2009
Location: Redmond, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anubhav1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 2:38pm
May be it has something to do with the specific type of outer ply of the blade too? My treiber Z has a Hinoki outer ply and maybe that is behind some of this softening up?

I did try resealing the blade with water based sealant from Joola (did not have time for PU based sealant yet) and I think I am narrowing down to the causes behind the funny feeling.

Obviously, the ply is softening up a little bit. Adding the sealant does help stiffen it up a little bit. The other thing that I think is also adding fuel to the fire here is my boosting the rubbers and not waiting long enough to stick them to the ply.

The last time I stuck my boosted T05, I only allowed it to sit for 24 hours, per layer of booster. Maybe, I should have given it more time. The reason why I am saying that is because yesterday, after my T05 getting another roughly 18-24 hours of free time, it started playing normal again and wasn't soft any longer. The other rubber, on my backhand, was still very very soft from the fresh boost. 

So may be, the secret is to allow for boosted rubbers to air well over 40 hours before slapping them on to the blade + the sealant factor as well (to some extent for sure).

Andro Treiber Z
BH - Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.1 Black
FH - T05 2.1 Red
Back to Top
SmackDAT View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/01/2012
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1328
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2017 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

Maybe you should be asking do blades get softer quicker from multiple boosting and gluing
as some people can keep the same blade for decades
No way,

Samsonov used Mazunov for like a decade and speed glued/booster tf out of his rubbers lol. How on earth was he gonna play with Nimbus VIP without booster?
Custom Viscaria 91g
H3 Neo 41/2.2
T05 2.1
Back to Top
ttplace View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 05/18/2017
Location: e
Status: Offline
Points: 12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttplace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2017 at 10:07am
Smile
Back to Top
bschap View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/07/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 366
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2017 at 5:20pm
I've noticed this phenomenon too.  BUT, there are other factors...like you getting used to your blade.  I chuckled at an experiment...buy a Tamca blade and see if it softens to perfection.
Back to Top
bschap View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/07/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 366
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2017 at 6:05pm
Hey Baal...I seem to remember coming across a thread where you and others were talking about some guy in Europe who specialized in sealing blades for pros and had intricate techniques in doing so.  SO, my question is, what is the value in having this done?  Why do the pro's bother with it?
Back to Top
Tinykin View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/30/2003
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/14/2017 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

I think the soft fell is due to the glue is soften up, specially on the handle near the neck of the blade, and makes the blade a bit flexy, and feel soft.  Bend your blade a little bit and see if there is any separation between the handle and the blade.  Wrap the handle up tight will help stiffen the blade up,


Good point about the handle separating over time. I still see some older players checking the handle to blade contact. So maybe this was a well known issue back when.




Edited by Tinykin - 06/14/2017 at 7:53pm
>60yo, 60lbs overweight

Darker Speed 90 + Tibhar EL-S / EL-S

When all else fails, there is always delusion.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11459
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2017 at 7:42am
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

Hey Baal...I seem to remember coming across a thread where you and others were talking about some guy in Europe who specialized in sealing blades for pros and had intricate techniques in doing so.  SO, my question is, what is the value in having this done?  Why do the pro's bother with it?


The guy is in Belgium and Kakapo is the sole source of my information on what he does.  Here is a post on it from the Pro's Equipment Discussion thread.  I think it has come up a few other places.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34187&KW=sealing&PID=968187&title=the-pros-equipment-discussion-and-questions#968187

Without having ever tried or even seen a blade prepared by the guy, I have no idea what the effect is or why they do it.  But apparently he has been doing it for a long time and has all sorts of different recipes.  I don't think it is to protect the blades, I think he does something that changes how they play because apparently he does it to new blades.  He also apparently modifies handles which I think is pretty interesting.  I think somebody posted a picture here of one of Timo's blades that had been modified so that they handle caps were slightly asymmetrical (one cap was slightly bigger than the other).  Soulspin has made that one of their hallmark features.

As for if blades get softer over time, my suspicion is that this certainly could happen from the glue or booster but that it doesn't always happen and this would almost certainly depend on the type of wood in the outer ply.  My old blades don't seem softer than new ones but Viscaria has koto on the outside, and this might not apply for other kinds of wood.
Back to Top
bschap View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/07/2013
Status: Offline
Points: 366
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2017 at 4:20pm
Reminds me of how sax players will spend time w specialists who modify their mouthpiece...can take weeks trying out different alterations...giving feedback and trying further alterations...finally ending up w a personalized specialized piece that nobody else has...like David Sanborn.  Ahh...to be a pro...I'd love to have some qualified engineer aid me in creating the perfect FL grip for my hands.
Back to Top
ttplace View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 05/18/2017
Location: e
Status: Offline
Points: 12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttplace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2017 at 12:18am
interesting
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer