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Meet Artur Abusev, young and hopeful defender...

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    Posted: 06/19/2017 at 3:53pm
DEFENDERS STILL ALIVE AND KICKING...

Now that all the older skilled defenders are ABOUT to drop out of the international sport, it is great to see a young 17 y.o. boy dedicated to the chop-and-hit play recently emerged on the international arena. He is a happy example that defendsive play is still alive and effective despite the plastic will detract pretty much from the chopping power.
NB.// Table tennis is alive as long as the choppers and allrounders play the game, I believe..
Good luck and many warm congratulations to Artur..



Artur ABUSEV, young and hopeful..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 4:25pm
DEFENDERS STILL ALIVE AND KICKING...

Now that all the older skilled defenders are ABOUT to drop out of the international sport, it is great to see a young 17 y.o. boy dedicated to the chop-and-hit play recently emerged on the international arena. He is a happy example that defendsive playis still alive and effective despite the plastic will detract pretty much from the chopping power. 
NB.// Table tennis is alive as long as the choppers and allrounders play the game, I believe..
Good luck and many warm congratulations to Artur.. 

Artur Abusev is an extremely impressive player.  A beautiful backhand chop, even from the extreme forehand side of the table, a first rate forehand chop, the ability to sustain  a rally, and a very good forehand counterloop that should only get better as he ages.  Definitely a table tennis player for this season.

At age 17 he seems to me, a retired chopper/all-rounder, though not remotely in Abusev's class, to be a potential top 10 player, maybe even top 5, in a few years.  

Ochin khorosho, gospodhin Abusev.  Spasyba, igorponger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 4:54pm
Hopefully there will be more like him. If his forehand could improve just a bit he will be pretty tough to get past. Better players will feast on his tendency to hit BH from so far on tne FH side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2017 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Hopefully there will be more like him. If his forehand could improve just a bit he will be pretty tough to get past. Better players will feast on his tendency to hit BH from so far on tne FH side.


Yeah. Although it does seem a tendency for modern defenders to chop backhand sometimes from the forehand side, I've yet to see one who does this from the extreme forehand side as Abusev does.

If his opponent can, or decides to, go down the line with his forehand or sharply crosscourt with his backhand, Abusev, as fast as he is, is gonna be toast.


Edited by berndt_mann - 06/19/2017 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2017 at 10:10pm
Key word is sometimes.  Joo would sometimes do that for example.  But he also had the capability of counterlooping forehands with anyone and putting away balls where someone mishandled one of his laser-like BH chops.

Still, it is really nice to see a defender in the top levels of junior players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 1:32am
He's good. He has the best forehand chop in Europe especially considering nobody in Europe chops with their forehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

He's good. He has the best forehand chop in Europe especially considering nobody in Europe chops with their forehand.


Yup.  The forehand chop has gone out of vogue in Europe ever since the days of Zoltan Berczik in the late '50s and '60s.  Although Berczik never won a World Singles Championship, he was an extremely good defender, probably with short pips and sponge both sides.

It's nice to see Abusev resurrect a stroke long thought extinct among Europeans.  Let's hope that, along with his nasty for a 17 year old forehand loop that he'll have the success during his career that Berczik did during his.

Wait a minute.  Ferenc Sido, last male player to win a World Singles Championship with a hardbat (1953), can be seen in a British Pathe film clip during the 1959 World Championships in Dortmund, Germany, chopping fh and bh against either Ogimura or Tanaka, hard to tell which.  A big dude at around 6'4" and maybe 220 lbs., Sido, predominantly an attacking player during the late '40s who could also defend, turned to mostly defensive play because (a) it gave guys like Ogimura and Tanaka problems, though it didn't prevent them from winning two World Singles Championships apiece, and (b) despite being a big guy, he was very agile and an excellent defensive player.


Edited by berndt_mann - 06/21/2017 at 6:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 9:24pm
And yet, with about 30 seconds of looking I find this nice video that shows that Berndt has no clue when it comes to modern table tennis and its practitioners of the last few decades.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 9:27pm
And of course this....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 9:29pm
And this...




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 9:32pm
And this.... and on and on...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 11:52pm
(Baal)  And yet, with about 30 seconds of looking I find this nice video that shows that Berndt has no clue when it comes to modern table tennis and its practitioners of the last few decades.

I presume from that nice video that you mean modern practitioners of defensively oriented play of the last few decades, no?, yes?

Whoa there, hoss.  I've seen Joo Se Hyuk and Chen Weixing at the U.S. Open at the Navy Pier Convention Center at Chicago in 2004.  I watched Matthew Syed get backhanded to death by Alexandar Karakasevic at the Arnold Classic at the Columbus, OH Convention Center in 2005 (great long range retrieving defense, solid backhand pickhit, maybe 2300 level forehand loop counterpunch). Viktoria Pavlovitch was also there at the 2004 Open, along with, I believe, some of those female Korean choppers, or their predecessors, that you mention.  I've seen American choppers Derek May, Virginia Sung, and Angela Guan at the Nationals.  I've also been a sparring partner of John Tannehill, an excellent chopper and forehand oriented attacker with both inverted and hardbat since at least 1970 (last few decades, right?), and played against Steve Berger, student of Dick Miles and 2000 National Hardbat Singles Champion (last 17 years, correct?).  I've seen Chen Xinhua (the cartwheel chopper) in an exhibition against Cheng Yinghua at the Maryland Table Tennis Center in Gaithersburg, MD in the mid 1990s.

That is a nice video, though.

Belated P.S. at 3:45 a.m. Tucson time (insomnia and an improved memory).  I've also seen Koji Matsushita dismantle a single-sided Chinese penholder at the U.S. Open in Indianapolis, Indiana in 1993 and Liang Geliang at two of the six World Veterans' Table Tennis Championships in which I participated.  I also watched Liang and the CNT play against some of our best (no Tannehill or D.J. Lee) at Chrysler Arena at the University of Michigan in 1972.

Just how many more clues do you need before you finally get the picture, Colonel Mustard?


Edited by berndt_mann - 06/22/2017 at 9:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 12:05am
lacks class. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 10:18am
Well if you watched the videos you would have seen lots of forehand chopping now wouldn't you?   So not extinct. And worse this means you knowingly post bullshyte.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Well if you watched the videos you would have seen lots of forehand chopping now wouldn't you?   So not extinct. And worse this means you knowingly post bullshyte.


(GeneralSpecific, in an earlier post to this thread)  He's good. He has the best forehand chop in Europe especially considering nobody in Europe chops with their forehand.  (boldface mine)

Your response to this ever so slightly provocative post:  bupkus, nuthin', nichevol nada, zip, zilch.

(B. Mann, excerpted from an earlier post to this thread)  ....The forehand chop has gone out of vogue in Europe ever since the days of Zoltan Berczik in the late '50s and '60s....  (boldface again mine)

Lots of forehand chopping from Europeans?  How about a male and female European and a male and a number of female choppers whose European ethnicity can certainly be called into question?   

Writing that the forehand chop has gone out of vogue in Europe is not the same thing as writing that the forehand chop in Europe is extinct.  I do believe we are talking about international class players here, not folk who are amateurs or semipros who play for a few Euros in local tournaments.

How many European choppers are there among the total number of Europeans who are internationally ranked?  I'd venture to say not a whole hell of a lot.  And why bother to bring in Joo Se Hyuk and the South Korean female choppers in to try to shore up an ill considered point that, while not probably qualifying as complete homemade bullshyte, is disingenuous, disingenuous, disingenuous even if read and understood giving you the benefit of the doubt.Angry  I can use emoticons too. 

There is no terror, Baal, in your denigration.  It passes over me like the idle desert wind, which I respect not.  


Edited by berndt_mann - 06/22/2017 at 2:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 2:47pm
It does say something when I haven't seen a top level male European defender utilize forehand chopping since Chtchetinine who I don't think plays competitively anymore.

Berndt, in fairness to Baal you did conveniently leave Chtchetinine out of your equation.

Though Baal, in slight fairness to Berndt the Korean choppers you posted aren't applicable as we are talking about Europeans. However your point still stands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

It does say something when I haven't seen a top level male European defender utilize forehand chopping since Chtchetinine who I don't think plays competitively anymore.

Berndt, in fairness to Baal you did conveniently leave Chtchetinine out of your equation.

Though Baal, in slight Fontfairness to Berndt the Korean choppers you posted aren't applicable as we are talking about Europeans. However your point still stands.

This is getting a bit out of hand.  Kinda like a blaze in 110 degree heat in an Arizonan desert.

I did not mention Chtchetinine by name, but I believe that he and Viktoria Pavlovitch were the two choppers shown in Baal's video clip of European choppers.

And as far as Baal's point is concerned, I'm not at all sure what soundness it has.  I know European choppers aren't extinct; Baal knows European choppers aren't extinct.  Once again, I never said they were.  They are, however, an extremely endangered species, and hardly in vogue.

Time for lunch.  Over and out.

Lunch over and back in.  Ask any European in 2017, in particular the older ones, whether or not the forehand chop in table tennis is now considered extinct, and he/she will reply in his/her native language  either what's a forehand chop or oh hell yes; can't remember a decent forehand chop since Sido and Berczik.  This is just to test your capacity for determining facetiousness.   

Baal's capacity for determining facetiousness, particularly when employed by me, is about as high as your average Barack Obama bowling score.

Cheerio.


Edited by berndt_mann - 06/22/2017 at 3:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/22/2017 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

He's good. He has the best forehand chop in Europe especially considering nobody in Europe chops with their forehand.


Yup.  The forehand chop has gone out of vogue in Europe ever since the days of Zoltan Berczik in the late '50s and '60s.  Although Berczik never won a World Singles Championship, he was an extremely good defender, probably with short pips and sponge both sides.

It's nice to see Abusev resurrect a stroke long thought extinct among Europeans.  Let's hope that, along with his nasty for a 17 year old forehand loop that he'll have the success during his career that Berczik did during his.

Wait a minute.  Ferenc Sido, last male player to win a World Singles Championship with a hardbat (1953), can be seen in a British Pathe film clip during the 1959 World Championships in Dortmund, Germany, chopping fh and bh against either Ogimura or Tanaka, hard to tell which.  A big dude at around 6'4" and maybe 220 lbs., Sido, predominantly an attacking player during the late '40s who could also defend, turned to mostly defensive play because (a) it gave guys like Ogimura and Tanaka problems, though it didn't prevent them from winning two World Singles Championships apiece, and (b) despite being a big guy, he was very agile and an excellent defensive player.


Out now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2017 at 4:58pm
He is doomed at high level with this style. Because of the new plastic rubbish ball the defensive style has become obsolete. Poor kid - he has wasted years to master this style.

Edited by ChichoFicho - 06/24/2017 at 4:58pm
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