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Do Chinese rubbers have to be boosted?

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chop4ever View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 10:06am
one thing: boosting Chinese rubber is not the same as softening Chinese rubber. As many one here using Falco, it does add a little bit speed on rubber but loosening the glue under topsheet pips, hence causes bubbles quickly.
Using booster, using non-paraffin oil solvent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 11:40pm
just saw a video from EmRatThich, said the main ingredient in FTL is tridecane which is both toxic and carcinogenic.   lots of things are carcinogenic.  could anyone offer what degree of carcinogenic effect does brief exposure to tridecane (while you are brushing on FTL) is comparable to other exposures we might encounter during our daily lives.  any info on how dangerous is the FTL to our health is at the bottom of this inquiry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 12:55am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

just saw a video from EmRatThich, said the main ingredient in FTL is tridecane which is both toxic and carcinogenic.   lots of things are carcinogenic.  could anyone offer what degree of carcinogenic effect does brief exposure to tridecane (while you are brushing on FTL) is comparable to other exposures we might encounter during our daily lives.  any info on how dangerous is the FTL to our health is at the bottom of this inquiry.


Why even go there? It is a sport, a game. It is suppose to be fun. What's the purpose of exposing yourself to more and more toxins? We should be doing the reverse. It's never one thing, it is the combination of everything that finally breaks the camel's back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 9:40am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

just saw a video from EmRatThich, said the main ingredient in FTL is tridecane which is both toxic and carcinogenic.   lots of things are carcinogenic.  could anyone offer what degree of carcinogenic effect does brief exposure to tridecane (while you are brushing on FTL) is comparable to other exposures we might encounter during our daily lives.  any info on how dangerous is the FTL to our health is at the bottom of this inquiry.


Why even go there? It is a sport, a game. It is suppose to be fun. What's the purpose of exposing yourself to more and more toxins? We should be doing the reverse. It's never one thing, it is the combination of everything that finally breaks the camel's back.

not disagreeing with you, and I have to state that only a very small % of my rubbers are boosted by me, so my question is more or less just for knowledge and maybe more important for people who boost extensively
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2017 at 4:37pm
i overcome the speed glue issue and i put chinese tacky rubber on my fast blade and  i didn't see any slowness in my strokes in matter of fact my strokes with my combo (blade+rubbers) is very powerful to the degree that i step away from the table about 5-6 meters and still my strokes land on the opponent side of table

i gain the advantage of my blade and the advantage of the chinese tacky rubber
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 11:19am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

one thing: boosting Chinese rubber is not the same as softening Chinese rubber. As many one here using Falco, it does add a little bit speed on rubber but loosening the glue under topsheet pips, hence causes bubbles quickly.
Using booster, using non-paraffin oil solvent.

chop or anyone that that had a sheet of rubber bubble on them:  how does this bubble look like?  Is the bubble really obvious (high dome) or does it look like a spot that is freshly lumpy from too much glue being applied?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 11:33am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

one thing: boosting Chinese rubber is not the same as softening Chinese rubber. As many one here using Falco, it does add a little bit speed on rubber but loosening the glue under topsheet pips, hence causes bubbles quickly.
Using booster, using non-paraffin oil solvent.

chop or anyone that that had a sheet of rubber bubble on them:  how does this bubble look like?  Is the bubble really obvious (high dome) or does it look like a spot that is freshly lumpy from too much glue being applied?
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63577&title=h3-neo-bubble-after-1-month

BTW, my sheet doesn't look like the above, it is a slightly lumpy area about 1 1/2 inches by 3/4 inches
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 11:59am
deleted

Edited by tom - 11/07/2017 at 12:01pm
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13656&title=bubble-in-my-new-red-donic-f1-rubber

my problem looks like the sheet in the Oct 3 2007 picture by "Mafia"  except larger.  I find the rubber dumps more balls into the net than usual.  Do you guys still play with a rubber in such a condition?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 3:45pm
 The ones that you can buy, yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2017 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13656&title=bubble-in-my-new-red-donic-f1-rubber

my problem looks like the sheet in the Oct 3 2007 picture by "Mafia"  except larger.  I find the rubber dumps more balls into the net than usual.  Do you guys still play with a rubber in such a condition?


I know a guy who had a severe defective acuda that came warped out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 1:40am
Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 4:34am
Since few years I am boosting vigorously with FTL all my chinese stuff and T05 as well, but never ever had even a hint of a bubble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
would you want to elaborate on the long answer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clarence247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 10:31am
Originally posted by manraid manraid wrote:

i overcome the speed glue issue and i put chinese tacky rubber on my fast blade and  i didn't see any slowness in my strokes in matter of fact my strokes with my combo (blade+rubbers) is very powerful to the degree that i step away from the table about 5-6 meters and still my strokes land on the opponent side of table

i gain the advantage of my blade and the advantage of the chinese tacky rubber

And by doing so...you lose touch , spin and control.

Speed glue was not really for speed so much as for added spin and the control that added spin offered in well trained hands. 

Boosters can improve feel, but do not really improve control that much because they do not significantly add to the spin generated. They do increase the speed. 

The best is clearly speed glue on an all wood blade with high control.

The second is a good booster on a fast wood blade.

I'd say beating the slowness of a chinese tacky rubber by attaching it to a rocket launcher type blade is the least desirable , although it will surely give speed, you lose out in the spin / speed ratio and hence in spin control. you might not suffer as much in regular and block control , but when you need to attack with spin you will feel the lack of precise placing.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 11:39am
The changed spin/speed ratio is indeed the iffy thing here.
But I think it depends on the type of rubber you boost.

Rubbers that generate spin mainly by sponge sinking method tend to keep their ratio more intact after boosting than rubbers that primarily generate spin by the topsheet, as latter mainly increase much more in speed than in spin. So with tacky chinese rubbers you don't really need to boost if you can hit hard and want to win the point mainly with spin. I see more advantages to boosting the average spongy BH-type rubber.

As for blades, it depends. The advantage in spin generation of wooden blades diminishes compared to a medium flexy 5+2 blade as you increase hitting power. So again it comes down to whether you have enough power or not.

Sure, professionals even boost H3s, but my guess would be that they benefit more from the increased speed to put away shots than from increased consistency from not boosting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
would you want to elaborate on the long answer?


It was a joke :)

But ok, here's the explanation I heard which makes no sense to me so feel free to correct it:

Boosting basically changes the sponge, expanding and thus softening it. Making it a softer more elastic sponge.
Chinese forehand rubbers' sponges are traditionally rock hard (h3, h3neo etc).
So you boost them to make them softer and more pliant.

This makes no sense to me because why not just make a softer sponge


Edited by Lightzy - 11/08/2017 at 4:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
would you want to elaborate on the long answer?


It was a joke :)

But ok, here's the explanation I heard which makes no sense to me so feel free to correct it:

Boosting basically changes the sponge, expanding and thus softening it. Making it a softer more elastic sponge.
Chinese forehand rubbers' sponges are traditionally rock hard (h3, h3neo etc).
So you boost them to make them softer and more pliant.

This makes no sense to me because why not just make a softer sponge
I see where you are coming from
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
would you want to elaborate on the long answer?


It was a joke :)

But ok, here's the explanation I heard which makes no sense to me so feel free to correct it:

Boosting basically changes the sponge, expanding and thus softening it. Making it a softer more elastic sponge.
Chinese forehand rubbers' sponges are traditionally rock hard (h3, h3neo etc).
So you boost them to make them softer and more pliant.

This makes no sense to me because why not just make a softer sponge


It makes sense because it blends the advantages of hard and soft sponges together and reduces the disadvantages of soft sponges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 5:52pm
How does it blend the advantage of hard and soft sponge if it makes the hard sponge softer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 6:22pm
Better elasticity, more speed and more spin.

Just because the sponge becomes softer does not mean other properties will be identical to an initally softer sponge. Think critically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 6:33pm
Better elasticity is exactly the property of a softer sponge relative to a hard one, isn't it?

More speed and spin, that doesn't make sense either. It'll have more speed if the sponge is harder, not softer, and then only at a certain range of power on the stroke, while on other strokes a softer sponge will have more speed and spin.

Not following this 'critical thinking' at all (?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 6:43pm
   Chinese still believe that boosted H3 is very effectve to destroy the chopper.   Boosted H3 would give you a longer dwell time, much longer.

Ovtcharov now succeeded greatly by using H3 along with DYMAX booster.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Better elasticity is exactly the property of a softer sponge relative to a hard one, isn't it?

More speed and spin, that doesn't make sense either. It'll have more speed if the sponge is harder, not softer, and then only at a certain range of power on the stroke, while on other strokes a softer sponge will have more speed and spin.

Not following this 'critical thinking' at all (?)


You are comparing apples with oranges.
My points refer to the comparison of a harder sponge that was boosted and now is as soft as another initally softer, not boosted sponge. Does it make sense now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2017 at 10:27pm
No, still doesnt make sense.
What's the difference between a boosted sponge and an initially soft sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2017 at 5:24am
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

No, still doesnt make sense.
What's the difference between a boosted sponge and an initially soft sponge?


Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Better elasticity, more speed and more spin.



Full circle... lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2017 at 6:11am
It has to do with the tension which is created here. Hard but tensioned rubber gives a lot more speed and spin than one which is not boosted.

Soft rubbers without tension = too soft, not enough speed and spin on high impact shots
soft rubbers boosted = mushy
hard rubber without tension = too hard and no elasticity and tension between sponge and rubber
hard rubber boosted = best of both worlds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2017 at 9:20am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13656&title=bubble-in-my-new-red-donic-f1-rubber

my problem looks like the sheet in the Oct 3 2007 picture by "Mafia"  except larger.  I find the rubber dumps more balls into the net than usual.  Do you guys still play with a rubber in such a condition?

an update -  I found the answer to my problem which happened to my first H3 BS, boosted with FTL - I took  the rubber off the blade for better examination, the lumpy spot was confirmed to be a separation.  Since I have only played with it a few hours Cry I will keep it to see the topsheet could be reglued
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2017 at 10:23am
well that's common with the blue sponge and that's one of the reasons why it's not for sale to the public
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