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Blade Speed Comparison Sheet |
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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You already do when you grip your blade hard for driving or lightly for soft-blocking. Edit: Typo Edited by arg0 - 07/09/2017 at 2:31am |
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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Not so sure. Sound is emitted by the air moved by the vibration of the blade face. If the hand deadens the vibrations, why would a mechanical sensor pick it up? It may be more sensitive, but these frequencies will still have lower intensity than if the blade is clamped. Or am I wrong? |
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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I believe slevins point was that there are already 2 threads with detailed (IMO too detailed) discussions about the scientific methods that can be used to grasp/measure blade speed/attributes and this thread was simply meant as a forum to report results using the form or even post them here (I will then add them manually). This wasn't supposed to be the third thread discussing the pros and cons of this method.
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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Then I suppose we should ask a mod to move all the comment posts to the other thread to clean this one up...
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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... And it would be necessary to edit the first post and thread title to remove the reference to blade speed, or else people will inevitably object also in future.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Because the vibration gets damped, which means less strong but not totally nullified, enough to be measured by an accelerometer or strain gauge that a mic might otherwise not pick up. For the first mode, there is a pair of corresponding nodes in the blade head and handle. This mode gets excited really violently unless you hit the nodes. The ears may not hear it, but if the hand can feel it, so can the accelerometer or strain gauge. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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added a bunch of submissions today. Thank you everyone for contributing
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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great work! Thanks, h0n1g for setting this all up.
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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hey! it was your idea!
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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added Tibhar VS Unlimited. Again, very reflective of perceived speed I find.
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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updated
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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updated a large number of blades today, courtesy of shaibu and slevin.
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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updated again. Lots of Yinhe blades added.
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book4all
Super Member Joined: 05/11/2017 Location: NJ, USA Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Four Friendship/729 V-6 blades:
1) Shakehand, 1476 89.5g 2) Shakehand, 1429, 93.7g 3) C-Penhold, 1523, 81.8g 4) C-Penhold, 1476, 79.6g Used both Nittaku 3 Star 40+ and DHS 3 Star new material D40+ balls. Both are plastic balls. The recorded frequencies are the same.
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wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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Hi there. What was your result of Nittaku S5? |
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Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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Mine had some sort of plateau, made of two main frequencies: one was 1400Hz, the other 1580Hz. The average would be 1490Hz. See the attached pictures, which come from two separate measurements. It would be interesting to have other data points and see whether other blades have this twin peaks, as well. |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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I can provide you with some raw data giving you headaches.
I found this 'twin peak' or 'multiple peak' issue in a Hinotec All+ blade. (5ply, hinoki outer) The following chart displays its bouncing frequencies at similar, medium impact strenghts. The difference in gain has been adjusted ex-post. Facts first: As we can see, the lowest peak comes in at about 1100 Hz, and the highest at about 1300 Hz. This is not consistent at all. In fact, I'm sure I can create any peak frequency in between by slightly varying hitting position and impact strenght. Also, not only peaks seem to alter, the curves as a whole seem to undergo quite drastic changes. Now some really wacky interpretation: It might be the Hinoki outer veneers that make these measurements so inconsistent. But I think it plays inconsistent as well. Slight difference in stroke, contact point or impact strenght results in extreme differences in ball lenght, speed and height. Unpredictable for me. This is too daring to say with only such limited data, but maybe inconsistencies in frequency curves lead to poor blade performance. arg0, you previously mentioned (in some other topic) that the S5 reminds you of a Hinoki blade. So I was cheeky enough to take that as red herring :P Edited by Hozuki - 08/01/2017 at 5:28pm |
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wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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Following these results, it's obvious that S5 is an extremely fast blade. However you saw all those people saying it actually feels slow, an off- or maybe even an all. Mine is arriving later this week. I'm so curious.
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Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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This is why I sent mine back, I mean in the assumption that it would be very fast. Maybe I got a "lemon", or we have found a flaw in the measurements (as I wrote earlier, I found that spruce or hinoki blade often show higher frequencies than their perceived speed). I'm curious about your measurements and findings. Please post at least the frequency here and your impressions in the S-5 thread. |
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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Very interesting, I never saw great variations in the main peaks, even by measuring the same blade again after years, but it's true that I always hold it the exact same way and bounce the ball at the centre. Recently, I tried to hit the ball hard, rather than just let it bounce, and the frequencies of the highest peak I recorded were near identical. When hitting, I hold the blade with a normal grip and gripped it less lightly, but still the frequency was not affected. I got some "peak inversion" in the 2000-3000 Hz range, though. I'll try hitting off-centre (outside the sweet spot), though if I recall correctly, the main frequency does not change much, but the rest of the spectrum does. As to hinoki, yes, as I wrote a few minutes ago (before seeing your post), I had some "inconsistency" between main frequencies of certain blades with hinoki and spruce (they're similar types of wood) layers and perceived speed. But then, on the other hand, some other hinoki blades I measured were in the 1200-1300 Hz range, in line with their perceived speed. So... I don't know! |
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Just got a Donic Crest AR+, 90g, measured in at 1356. Seems to me more of an OFF- than AR+ ;)
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Pingpongplaya
Beginner Joined: 07/28/2017 Location: Us Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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h0n1g is that an average weight or just only some available in that weight category? Typically if it's heavier it definitely seems or feels faster. Also what rubbers did you test it with. I think juic too underates their blades. As well as some andro blades
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Pingpongplaya
Beginner Joined: 07/28/2017 Location: Us Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Oh wait is this just the wood or without rubber test? Like vibration and feedback????
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h0n1g
Silver Member Joined: 05/03/2005 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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It's just blades, no rubbers. Read the first posts
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SmileTT
Super Member Joined: 04/15/2017 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 240 |
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Here are my findings! No real surprises to me. Recorded using Arg0's method with Audacity.
Avalox BT555 85 1245 Butterfly M. Maze 88 1414 Butterfly Viscaria 85 1455 Nittaku Acoustic C-O 91 1347 Nittaku Basaltec-O 88 1402 Yinhe V-16 89 1578 Thank you h0n1g for all your work! Let's get more data in everyone! |
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Xiom Omega IV Euro | Freitas ALC | Xiom Omega IV Euro
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Can someone provide a link which explains how blades are rated for spin speed and control ?
I don't want your theory just a manufacturers explanation. Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 08/10/2017 at 11:50am |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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Soulspin Roots 6 Basalt 85gr. (inner) 1475. add to list using Audacity.
Edited by lineup32 - 08/10/2017 at 11:54am |
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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I wish there were just one way... Each has their own criteria: some measure, some do surveys, some both. |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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So as a consumer, we buy blades from $50-$400 without knowing if comparisons have any consistency or even accuracy ? |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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arg0
Platinum Member Joined: 07/22/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2023 |
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Accuracy within the measuring system of one brand? Likely.
Disclosure of how the values are calculated? No. As a consequence: Consistency of data between brands? No. Edit: I'm obviously talking about the manufacturers' indications (which is off-topic so I stop here). Edited by arg0 - 08/10/2017 at 7:00pm |
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