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Blade Speed Comparison Sheet

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:30am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

So if I was a robot holding a blade by clamping I would experience different playing characteristics then the rest of you? Lol, sorry :P

You already do when you grip your blade hard for driving or lightly for soft-blocking.

Edit: Typo

Edited by arg0 - 07/09/2017 at 2:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:37am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

It doesn't matter if the blade is clamped or gripped by the hand, an accelerometer or strain gauge will pick up what the mic can't.

Not so sure. Sound is emitted by the air moved by the vibration of the blade face. If the hand deadens the vibrations, why would a mechanical sensor pick it up? It may be more sensitive, but these frequencies will still have lower intensity than if the blade is clamped. Or am I wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:37am
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

All: may I suggest that we only use this thread to post blade peak amplitude frequencies?

Let us post all discussions in the other thread I started. Keep this one clean.

You mean everyone has to copy over their posts to the other thread?
Btw, didn't h0n1g create a site for reporting the frequencies (first post), so should we use his tool or post them here?

I believe slevins point was that there are already 2 threads with detailed (IMO too detailed) discussions about the scientific methods that can be used to grasp/measure blade speed/attributes and this thread was simply meant as a forum to report results using the form or even post them here (I will then add them manually). This wasn't supposed to be the third thread discussing the pros and cons of this method.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:45am
Then I suppose we should ask a mod to move all the comment posts to the other thread to clean this one up...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2017 at 3:21am
... And it would be necessary to edit the first post and thread title to remove the reference to blade speed, or else people will inevitably object also in future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2017 at 4:09am
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

It doesn't matter if the blade is clamped or gripped by the hand, an accelerometer or strain gauge will pick up what the mic can't.

Not so sure. Sound is emitted by the air moved by the vibration of the blade face. If the hand deadens the vibrations, why would a mechanical sensor pick it up? It may be more sensitive, but these frequencies will still have lower intensity than if the blade is clamped. Or am I wrong?

Because the vibration gets damped, which means less strong but not totally nullified, enough to be measured by an accelerometer or strain gauge that a mic might otherwise not pick up.

For the first mode, there is a pair of corresponding nodes in the blade head and handle. This mode gets excited really violently unless you hit the nodes. The ears may not hear it, but if the hand can feel it, so can the accelerometer or strain gauge.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2017 at 10:43pm
added a bunch of submissions today. Thank you everyone for contributing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2017 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by h0n1g h0n1g wrote:

added a bunch of submissions today. Thank you everyone for contributing

great work! Thanks, h0n1g for setting this all up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by h0n1g h0n1g wrote:

added a bunch of submissions today. Thank you everyone for contributing

great work! Thanks, h0n1g for setting this all up.

hey! it was your idea!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2017 at 4:30pm
added Tibhar VS Unlimited. Again, very reflective of perceived speed I find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2017 at 11:05pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2017 at 2:28am
updated a large number of blades today, courtesy of shaibu and slevin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2017 at 7:53pm
updated again. Lots of Yinhe blades added.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2017 at 10:10pm
Four Friendship/729 V-6 blades:

1) Shakehand, 1476 89.5g
2) Shakehand, 1429, 93.7g
3) C-Penhold, 1523, 81.8g
4) C-Penhold, 1476, 79.6g

Used both Nittaku 3 Star 40+ and DHS 3 Star new material D40+ balls. Both are plastic balls. The recorded frequencies are the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanchope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2017 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

... And it would be necessary to edit the first post and thread title to remove the reference to blade speed, or else people will inevitably object also in future.


Hi there. What was your result of Nittaku S5?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2017 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by wanchope wanchope wrote:

Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

... And it would be necessary to edit the first post and thread title to remove the reference to blade speed, or else people will inevitably object also in future.

Hi there. What was your result of Nittaku S5?

Mine had some sort of plateau, made of two main frequencies: one was 1400Hz, the other 1580Hz. The average would be 1490Hz. See the attached pictures, which come from two separate measurements.
It would be interesting to have other data points and see whether other blades have this twin peaks, as well.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2017 at 5:27pm
I can provide you with some raw data giving you headaches.

I found this 'twin peak' or 'multiple peak' issue in a Hinotec All+ blade. (5ply, hinoki outer)
The following chart displays its bouncing frequencies at similar, medium impact strenghts.
The difference in gain has been adjusted ex-post.

Facts first: As we can see, the lowest peak comes in at about 1100 Hz, and the highest at about 1300 Hz. This is not consistent at all. In fact, I'm sure I can create any peak frequency in between by slightly varying hitting position and impact strenght. Also, not only peaks seem to alter, the curves as a whole seem to undergo quite drastic changes.

Now some really wacky interpretation: It might be the Hinoki outer veneers that make these measurements so inconsistent. But I think it plays inconsistent as well. Slight difference in stroke, contact point or impact strenght results in extreme differences in ball lenght, speed and height. Unpredictable for me.
This is too daring to say with only such limited data, but maybe inconsistencies in frequency curves lead to poor blade performance.

arg0, you previously mentioned (in some other topic) that the S5 reminds you of a Hinoki blade. So I was cheeky enough to take that as red herring :P


Edited by Hozuki - 08/01/2017 at 5:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanchope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2017 at 5:28pm
Following these results, it's obvious that S5 is an extremely fast blade. However you saw all those people saying it actually feels slow, an off- or maybe even an all. Mine is arriving later this week. I'm so curious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2017 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by wanchope wanchope wrote:

Following these results, it's obvious that S5 is an extremely fast blade. However you saw all those people saying it actually feels slow, an off- or maybe even an all. Mine is arriving later this week. I'm so curious.

This is why I sent mine back, I mean in the assumption that it would be very fast. Maybe I got a "lemon", or we have found a flaw in the measurements (as I wrote earlier, I found that spruce or hinoki blade often show higher frequencies than their perceived speed).
I'm curious about your measurements and findings. Please post at least the frequency here and your impressions in the S-5 thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2017 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:


arg0, you previously mentioned (in some other topic) that the S5 reminds you of a Hinoki blade. So I was cheeky enough to take that as red herring :P

Very interesting, I never saw great variations in the main peaks, even by measuring the same blade again after years, but it's true that I always hold it the exact same way and bounce the ball at the centre.
Recently, I tried to hit the ball hard, rather than just let it bounce, and the frequencies of the highest peak I recorded were near identical. When hitting, I hold the blade with a normal grip and gripped it less lightly, but still the frequency was not affected. I got some "peak inversion" in the 2000-3000 Hz range, though. I'll try hitting off-centre (outside the sweet spot), though if I recall correctly, the main frequency does not change much, but the rest of the spectrum does.

As to hinoki, yes, as I wrote a few minutes ago (before seeing your post), I had some "inconsistency" between main frequencies of certain blades with hinoki and spruce (they're similar types of wood) layers and perceived speed. But then, on the other hand, some other hinoki blades I measured were in the 1200-1300 Hz range, in line with their perceived speed. So... I don't know! Big smileSave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2017 at 11:34pm
Just got a Donic Crest AR+, 90g, measured in at 1356. Seems to me more of an OFF- than AR+ ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingpongplaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:25am
h0n1g is that an average weight or just only some available in that weight category? Typically if it's heavier it definitely seems or feels faster. Also what rubbers did you test it with. I think juic too underates their blades. As well as some andro blades
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingpongplaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:26am
Oh wait is this just the wood or without rubber test? Like vibration and feedback????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 2:38am
It's just blades, no rubbers. Read the first posts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmileTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 9:39am
Here are my findings! No real surprises to me. Recorded using Arg0's method with Audacity.
Avalox BT555 85 1245 
Butterfly M. Maze 88 1414
Butterfly Viscaria 85 1455
Nittaku Acoustic C-O 91 1347
Nittaku Basaltec-O 88 1402
Yinhe V-16 89 1578

Thank you h0n1g for all your work! Let's get more data in everyone! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 11:48am
Can someone provide a link which explains how blades are rated for spin speed and control ?

I don't want your theory just a manufacturers explanation.


Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 08/10/2017 at 11:50am
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 11:53am
Soulspin Roots 6 Basalt 85gr. (inner)    1475.    add to list   using Audacity.

Edited by lineup32 - 08/10/2017 at 11:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Can someone provide a link which explains how blades are rated for spin speed and control ?
I don't want your theory just a manufacturers explanation.

I wish there were just one way...
Each has their own criteria: some measure, some do surveys, some both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Can someone provide a link which explains how blades are rated for spin speed and control ?
I don't want your theory just a manufacturers explanation.

I wish there were just one way...
Each has their own criteria: some measure, some do surveys, some both.


So as a consumer, we buy blades from $50-$400 without knowing if comparisons have any consistency or even accuracy ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
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HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 6:58pm
Accuracy within the measuring system of one brand? Likely.
Disclosure of how the values are calculated? No.
As a consequence: Consistency of data between brands? No.

Edit: I'm obviously talking about the manufacturers' indications (which is off-topic so I stop here).

Edited by arg0 - 08/10/2017 at 7:00pm
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