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Blade Speed Comparison Sheet

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ThePongProfessor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2018 at 1:28pm
Mods - Can we please sticky this? I think it is an interesting compilation of data (I know there are ongoing discussions regarding the value and significance of frequency data but...).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cftt-blades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2018 at 9:57am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

higher frequency = higher stiffness
sharper, more defined peak = harder outer ply

hinoki is very soft, hence less defined peak, but 1ply is stiff, hence higher frequency.
h301 is koto and overall hard, but retains some flex, hence sharp peak and mid frequency.

stiffer softer blades feel faster, more bouncy at low to medium impact, but can lack power away from the table. Just look at some balsa composites for example - high frequency and high stiffness.

Not sure how accurate this is, but I think we are getting closer.

I think this is pretty accurate and consistent with the testing i've done.  I've been making my own blades for about 6 months now.  I have test results for 12 different blades i've made with widely varied compositions.  Not sure how to best contribute that information to the spreadsheet as I don't really have "names" for the individual blade compositions, but it is quite interesting.

I just built two carbon blades that had a fairly interesting and unique carbon as the 2nd ply right below the top ply of the blade, and they are both very "stiff" (and this shows with the high peak in the 1700-1725Hz range), and then I built a ZLC "innerforce" style blade with the ZLC right on top of a Kiri core, and it tested in the 1360Hz range, which would be expected with a more flexible blade without a stiff 2nd ply.

I have found though that as you increase hardness, at some point you start losing speed as well.  I have an all wood 5 ply blade that I made with Sapele as the top ply, which is a pretty hard and stiff wood (1410 Janka, 12.04Gpa elasticity) and it only measures 1010Hz.  It also plays like an ALL+ blade so that makes sense.  It has a great feel for close to the table blocking and hitting, but lacks some top end speed due to the harder outer ply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2018 at 11:59pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2018 at 7:53pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2018 at 9:11pm
My 77g Darker S90 measured 1722Hz with rubber on the other side. Does it make any difference? Does a heavier blade have a higher frequency? ie: fatt's 90g DS90 measured 2325Hz, while both of our blades are at 9mm thick. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2018 at 9:50pm
yes, heavier blades always measure higher 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2018 at 11:18am
But here's the dilemma: given 2 blade of the same hinoki material, same thickness and dimensions, but different weight, which means different dryness. The heavier blade is probably has more moisture than the lighter one, right? But then why does the heavier blade blade has a higher frequency with a higher moisture content? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2018 at 1:04am
Collection has been updated. Thanks for all the submissions!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2018 at 8:28am
Am I right thinking that different balls you guys used only affect amplitude of the vib rather than freq?
729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2018 at 1:34pm
Unless you use 38/40 celluloid balls, the difference should be irrelevant on the grand scheme of things
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2018 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Dream1700 Dream1700 wrote:

I used Visual Audio v.1.0.3 (iOS). I don't know if the measurements are compatible with those by the Apps listed at the start of the thread. I used Visual Audio because it is free, identifies peak and averages several bounces.
Settings used: aquisition rate 8,000 kHz, Level calibration 140 dB, duration 20s. I averaged 2 runs: each run produces several close peak resonace freqs (e.g. 1125 and 1123) those were averaged prior to averaging two runs.
Donier Defensive  84.6g  946.5
Stiga Allround Classic WRB (1998)  70.3g  1061
TSP Swat  80.8g  1123.5
Donic Burn All+  77.4g  1124
Andro Temper Tech All+  70g  1147  (in some runs I get 1216 peak instead)
Xiom Fuga  76g  1269.5
Palio CAT  68.4g  1484.5
Yinhe T11+  68.4g  1736.5 

I have expected TSP Swat to have higher frequency (it is 7ply). Could be getting lower peak due to somewhat light weight that I got.  The blade plays very nicely BTW.

**Edited Donic-Tibhar mixup

Using the same set-up:
Stiga Infinity VPS V 77 g. 1351 peak
Stiga Offensive Wood NCT 78 g. 1369 peak


Edited by Dream1700 - 10/01/2018 at 7:04pm
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FH: Fastarc C-1 1.4
BH: Tenergy 80 1.7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2018 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

My 77g Darker S90 measured 1722Hz with rubber on the other side. Does it make any difference? Does a heavier blade have a higher frequency? ie: fatt's 90g DS90 measured 2325Hz, while both of our blades are at 9mm thick. 

Update: It makes a big difference if the blade is with one side rubber and no rubber at all.  My naked DS90 frequency is 2131Hz:


Here is my naked 9mm 91g Miyabi at 2110Hz:



Edited by hleett - 10/02/2018 at 9:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2019 at 1:46am
sorry for the absence. Sheet has been updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2019 at 2:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyber_613 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2019 at 12:29pm
Blade: ZhangJike T5000
FH: Andro Ransanter R42 - Max
BH: Joola Maxxx P - 2.0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2019 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

But here's the dilemma: given 2 blade of the same hinoki material, same thickness and dimensions, but different weight, which means different dryness.

The moisture in the blade will no doubt affect the weight, but big weight differences are likely due to different wood densities, not moisture. Wood is a natural product, so it's always going to variation in internal structure & density, which affects the weight and performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2019 at 8:58am
   


     ABORTED ....   USELESS...

Edited by igorponger - 02/22/2019 at 9:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2019 at 9:14am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

But here's the dilemma: given 2 blade of the same hinoki material, same thickness and dimensions, but different weight, which means different dryness.

The moisture in the blade will no doubt affect the weight, but big weight differences are likely due to different wood densities, not moisture. Wood is a natural product, so it's always going to variation in internal structure & density, which affects the weight and performance.


Quite so .. Quite so ... Exactly ...

BLADES and FIDDLES ..
Actually, even if labeled with same brand/logo, there are no two blades playing alike. All table tennis plywoods would be taken from different parts of the woodlog, so the finished plywoods differ in density and different moisture index.. This is the elementary truth every woodworker is aware of.

Wooden blades is much like wirtuozo fiddles. They all would play differently.    

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-32080-9_19

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2019 at 7:59pm
Updated 4/6/2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2019 at 1:54am
updated 4/7/19 including first Butterfly Harimoto ALC blade, thanks to jpenmaster!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2019 at 10:01am
Originally posted by h0n1g h0n1g wrote:

updated 4/7/19 including first Butterfly Harimoto ALC blade, thanks to jpenmaster!

Where s the updated list?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2019 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

it's in the OP:

The link to the spreadsheet is www.ttbla.de.

The Submission Form is here: https://goo.gl/VU3Mp8

Thank  you!!
Is the frequency related to speed and power?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 1:09am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

it's in the OP:

The link to the spreadsheet is www.ttbla.de.

The Submission Form is here: https://goo.gl/VU3Mp8

Thank  you!!
Is the frequency related to speed and power?



Rating Hypothesis:
OFF+:>1550
OFF:1350-1550
OFF-:1250-1350
ALL+:1100-1250
ALL:1000-1100
DEF:<1000


Edited by h0n1g - 04/10/2019 at 1:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2019 at 8:21pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyber_613 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2019 at 1:30am
Victas Koki Niwa (5ply wood + 4 carbon layer)
 Speed: 1356



Edited by cyber_613 - 05/18/2019 at 1:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2019 at 9:03pm
Viscaria L series 94g...1442Hz.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/02/2019 at 2:41am
Spreadsheet updated with two blades
729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2019 at 8:31am
is the blade frequency chart still up?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm2020shocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 12:33am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

can a mod edit the OP adding that link
since www.ttbla.de is broken and will likely stay that way?

http://ttbl.de/      ??

I was told some hosts default to both www and without www but others you have to manually set up I think.
I don't about any of this.  I never finished elementary school.


Edited by agm2020shocker - 10/20/2019 at 12:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 2:41am
www is thing of the past these days. Used to differentiate site content tailored for desktop browser from potential wap.host.com and alike.

 Also it is sad that they are not switching from "http://ttbl.de" to HTTPS even though they have it running here: https://ttbl.de

The correct and default must be https one.

p.s.

Not my business really


Edited by fmarek - 10/20/2019 at 2:44am
729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1
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