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Interesting blog on plastlic balls

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    Posted: 08/10/2017 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

I just glossed through the blog but here are a couple of thoughts.

1. The guy in the blog seems to have a 'I said it so it must be true' type of tone. I see he has solid credentials but I have a habit of tuning out guys like these. Some of his points did have some validity though.

2. I LOVE the plastic ball, all brands except that crap Nittaku SHA, ABS no matter what material. I use mainly Yinhe seamless but most clubmates use the NP40+. I feel that the plastic ball provides the right balance, or maybe I should say a better balance, of skill and athleticism. In basketball, you may be the best shooter on the court, but if you are not quick enough to escape your defender, plant your feet, and get the shot out of your hands, then you won't score that much.

In TT, I have seen a prevalence of these 'touch players' who don't really do much running or footwork or positioning. There's this guy in my club that is from the 'Hungarian school of TT' and his strokes look like Gabor Gergely. When things get tight, he would have a super spinny serve and rip with his BH and point over. Nowadays, he is forced to make a second, third, fourth loop. The plastic ball's different properties now makes him actually work for a point. If you don't have some athleticism, the game will not be too friendly to you.

I also like the possibility that the new fitness requirements of the plastic ball can advance other coutries' potential. A good example is Aruna Quadri. This guy does not have the perfect form obviously but with his athletic abilities, he can be worldclass. As I've stated already in other threads, TT players need to work more off the table like a boxer does not only practice in a ring. You have to skip rope, lift weights high rep low resistance, do sprints, footwork drills away from the table, chop wood, do abdominal work, etc. I feel that TT is no longer just skills like billiards or darts but you now have to be much fitter than before.

This is pretty much where I stand on these things now, I enthusiastically agree with every single point made here by Beaver in that last post.  It took me a little while to get used to plastic balls, but once we got decent ones -- definitely not the crappy cellulose acetate ones!  -- I was pretty much fine with it.  Seamless, NP40+, D40+, all good as far as I am concerned.  It did force me to get fitter and to work on moving better.  That is not a bad thing.  Actually good for health.

I don't free-play with the seamless much these days but it is not because they are bad, and I have a pretty good sized bucket of them for multiball.

Edit added.   ITTF screwed up big time when they mandated a change to plastic balls before they had any good ones to put on the market.  If the first plastic balls on the market had been the NP40+ or the D40+ I think people would have not been so upset.  And of course they snuck in another significant increased in ball size in the process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 12:51pm
I just glossed through the blog but here are a couple of thoughts.

1. The guy in the blog seems to have a 'I said it so it must be true' type of tone. I see he has solid credentials but I have a habit of tuning out guys like these. Some of his points did have some validity though.

2. I LOVE the plastic ball, all brands except that crap Nittaku SHA, ABS no matter what material. I use mainly Yinhe seamless but most clubmates use the NP40+. I feel that the plastic ball provides the right balance, or maybe I should say a better balance, of skill and athleticism. In basketball, you may be the best shooter on the court, but if you are not quick enough to escape your defender, plant your feet, and get the shot out of your hands, then you won't score that much.

In TT, I have seen a prevalence of these 'touch players' who don't really do much running or footwork or positioning. There's this guy in my club that is from the 'Hungarian school of TT' and his strokes look like Gabor Gergely. When things get tight, he would have a super spinny serve and rip with his BH and point over. Nowadays, he is forced to make a second, third, fourth loop. The plastic ball's different properties now makes him actually work for a point. If you don't have some athleticism, the game will not be too friendly to you.

I also like the possibility that the new fitness requirements of the plastic ball can advance other coutries' potential. A good example is Aruna Quadri. This guy does not have the perfect form obviously but with his athletic abilities, he can be worldclass. As I've stated already in other threads, TT players need to work more off the table like a boxer does not only practice in a ring. You have to skip rope, lift weights high rep low resistance, do sprints, footwork drills away from the table, chop wood, do abdominal work, etc. I feel that TT is no longer just skills like billiards or darts but you now have to be much fitter than before.
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IFB GOES ON WITH FEATHER SHUTTLES.



IFB did remained unruffled in the face of the global crisis of paultry feather production, no panic.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/2006-03/15/content_545515.htm

   --------------
FATAL CHOICE BY ITTF.

There was no true indication of possible crisis in row celluloid production.   Ceased celluloid ball was a fatal folly by ITTF.   Plastic balls were quiet unnecessary.
Certainly, some more improvements needed to the ABS formulation so as to make the ball playing closer to celluloid material. Hope dies last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2017 at 9:27am
The title "Evolution of the balls.."  made me laugh out loud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2017 at 9:23am
No.  Simply no.  The dynamics of a shuttlecock vs. a ball flying through the air are completely different.

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   Look at the diagramme.
Nowdays that Table tennis is using balls of several different materials it is a very close analogue to badminton game.     
- Pingpong ball of ABC material would do much similar to the nylon shuttle (the track in blue), and celluloid material would provide play similar to the badminton of feather (the track in red).

https://www.quora.com/Are-plastic-shuttles-better-or-feather-shuttles


Balram Tiwari, badminton expert player of India.
    If you are just playing for fun then plastic is ok, but if you want to enjoy real game feather shuttles are far more better than plastic.   Feathers required proper technique to play and it need strength also in comparison to nylon. I love the sound while playing with feathers. But ya feathers are little expensive in compare to nylon one.

Igorponger, ping-pang geek.
    If you are just playing for fun then ABS plastic is ok. but if you want to enjoy a real game then balls of celluloid and celluloid derivatives are far more better than plastic.   Celluloid required proper technique to play and it need strength also in comparison to ABS material. I love the feel, sound and control while playing with celluloid. But the 3-star celluloid is a little expensive as compared to ABS one.

https://khelmart.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/d4cb6-nylonvsfeatherbadmintonshuttlecockdeclaration.jpg

FOOTNOTE:
Shuttles of syntetic materials have never been used for major badminton competitions as yet, because the plastic would not produce a proper accuracy and control in play.

Why did ITTF approve, extole and widely deploy ABS plastic for all the international events, despite the fact that ABC plastic kills spectacularity of the sport.






Edited by igorponger - 08/07/2017 at 7:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2017 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

"The notion that Nittaku balls explained some uncharacteristic CNT losses at ATTC never seemed convincing to me." - I have the same feeling in April and at that time I think this is just an excuse. But after my transition to plastic balls during last few weeks, and endured some "uncharacteristic losses" with some stronger players, now I think this "excuse" may have some basis. Smile 


Again though, bear in mind that this is not a question of transitioning from celluloid to plastic; this was transitioning from one 40+ ball to another.  In addition, the CNT had access to D40+ balls for months, and that is an ABS (acrylonitrile butadiene styrene) ball very similar to the Nittaku that was used at the ATTC.  Also, the Nittaku ball was not some sort of state secret, I have been using it since 2015.  Moreover, the CNT players didn't lose in early rounds.  They had several matches to get used to the ball, and really, those CNT players are so good and the NP40 vs D40+ balls are so similar that it just can't explain it.  

I think the people who were speaking for the CNT to Chinese media were clearly making excuses for problems they had in preparing the team that resulting in extremely unexpected losses.  Those problems could have been things like not studying the likely dangerous opponents closely enough, taking them lightly, or over-training the athletes and not tapering off properly prior to the tournament, or something else.  Those excuses might work too, in China, where the Nittaku ball is so expensive that your average fan isn't going to buy one, if they are even sold there.  (I know at places I have played in China, mostly in Sichuan province, nobody there had ever seen a Nittaku ball).  So when I read those remarks, I asked myself, "what is the purpose of this statement" and it seemed to me to be high-level CYA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2017 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

What is interesting though is that CNT returned to tbeir usual dominance at WTTC just two months later using very similar ABS 40+ balls. The DHS D40+ ball plays very similarly to the Nittaku Premium and both are made of ABS. In this context "new ball" means ABS 40+ as opposed to cellulose acetate 40+ used starting in 2014. The Chinese manager is not talking about celluloid at all in tnose comments.

The notion that Nittaku balls explained some uncharacteristic CNT losses at ATTC never seemed convincing to me.

Interesting commentary on D40+ vs. NP40+.   I've heard from few players that these balls feel similar, but from few others that noticed meaningful differences.

I'm in the second camp.  While I've had lots of difficulties adjusting to NP40+ when transitioning from seamless (XSF, Nexy, Xiom), I had absolutely no problem adjusting to D40+, even though there's distinct difference between D40+ and the seamless kind.

I can't put my finger on specifics of the differences I felt between MP40+ and D40+, except that NP40+ felt lighter,and the ball appears to decelerate relatively quickly after bounce, which screws my timing.  D40+ seems heavier and faster, and its bounce and trajectory is most similar to what I experienced with celluloid balls.

I realize that my observations are subjective, as are most observations in this thread :^), and I'm wondering whether anyone else has similar take on these ABS balls.



They aren't identical.  The Nittaku is about 0.03 gram lighter on average than D40+ and I that is enough to notice some slight difference in how they fly through the air etc.  However, of all the balls sold today these two are by far the most similar (the coaches and pro players at my club share that opinion) and in my view there is simply no way this can account for the CNT's difference in performance at ATTC vs WTTC.  I can tell the difference between a D40+ and an NP40 because I sort of taught myself how with a partner by playing a ball without knowing which it was and then guessing.  (I don't get it right 100% of the time either but definitely far better than random.  By contrast I do discern with 100% accuracy if he throws in a G40 or a cellulose acetate or a seamless ball, those differences are just too obvious).  Actually one thing aobut NP40 and D40 is that they are not quite the same brightness of white.  However I can adjust between NP40 and D40 with no decrements in my play in about 1 minute and I definitely cannot do that if I have to switch to other plastic balls.  These two types of balls are as similar as the Nittaku Premium and the DHS balls were in the celluloid era.

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My score with him is 21:10, 21:11, 11:21, 21:12, 21:13 with plastic balls.  
My score with him is 21:7, 21:7 with celluloid balls. 
My style automatically changed from mostly under-spin chopping to light loops and pushes following ball's change. 

I thought this is a quite big difference.

On the other wide, you have switched to plastic balls probably a few years ago. May be you forgot the your initial pain and agony already? But we already know the pain is mostly for the defensive players so if you are not under-spin and chopping all the time you might not feel the difficulty of the switch. 

One day we can try to play a few games at the Pong to see if there is a big difference as I currently experienced.

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">"The hierarchy at the CAR and at the World rankings is still largely the same." - </span>Yes I am still beating my partner with and without the plastic balls. Does this mean the plastic balls are the same as celluloid balls to me? Smile
 
Yea, it might mean that the balls are far more similar than you are making out.


Edited by book4all - 08/06/2017 at 2:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2017 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">"The hierarchy at the CAR and at the World rankings is still largely the same." - </span>Yes I am still beating my partner with and without the plastic balls. Does this mean the plastic balls are the same as celluloid balls to me? Smile







Yea, it might mean that the balls are far more similar than you are making out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VictorK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2017 at 10:05am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

What is interesting though is that CNT returned to tbeir usual dominance at WTTC just two months later using very similar ABS 40+ balls. The DHS D40+ ball plays very similarly to the Nittaku Premium and both are made of ABS. In this context "new ball" means ABS 40+ as opposed to cellulose acetate 40+ used starting in 2014. The Chinese manager is not talking about celluloid at all in tnose comments.

The notion that Nittaku balls explained some uncharacteristic CNT losses at ATTC never seemed convincing to me.

Interesting commentary on D40+ vs. NP40+.   I've heard from few players that these balls feel similar, but from few others that noticed meaningful differences.

I'm in the second camp.  While I've had lots of difficulties adjusting to NP40+ when transitioning from seamless (XSF, Nexy, Xiom), I had absolutely no problem adjusting to D40+, even though there's distinct difference between D40+ and the seamless kind.

I can't put my finger on specifics of the differences I felt between MP40+ and D40+, except that NP40+ felt lighter,and the ball appears to decelerate relatively quickly after bounce, which screws my timing.  D40+ seems heavier and faster, and its bounce and trajectory is most similar to what I experienced with celluloid balls.

I realize that my observations are subjective, as are most observations in this thread :^), and I'm wondering whether anyone else has similar take on these ABS balls.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 11:23pm
"That Ma Long lost and Niwa won doesn't mean Ma Long lost to Niwa, since they never played each other." - agree. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 11:00pm
"The notion that Nittaku balls explained some uncharacteristic CNT losses at ATTC never seemed convincing to me." - I have the same feeling in April and at that time I think this is just an excuse. But after my transition to plastic balls during last few weeks, and endured some "uncharacteristic losses" with some stronger players, now I think this "excuse" may have some basis. Smile 

Edited by book4all - 08/05/2017 at 11:02pm
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"The hierarchy at the CAR and at the World rankings is still largely the same." - Yes I am still beating my partner with and without the plastic balls. Does this mean the plastic balls are the same as celluloid balls to me? Smile




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 10:38pm
That Ma Long lost and Niwa won doesn't mean Ma Long lost to Niwa, since they never played each other. Mizutani is allowed to speculate like the rest of us. Harimoto exposed him really badly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

What is interesting though is that CNT returned to tbeir usual dominance at WTTC just two months later using very similar ABS 40+ balls. The DHS D40+ ball plays very similarly to the Nittaku Premium and both are made of ABS. In this context new ball means ABS 40+ as opposed to cellu,ose acetate 40+. The Chinese manager is not ta.king about celluloid.

The notion that Nittaku balls explained some uncharacteristic CNT losses at ATTC never seemed convincing to me.


Nittaku were used at the Asian Champs as it was a prep event for WTTC. There were doubts about the degree of similarity to the D40+ based on the Asian Champ results but with hindsight, they were probably overblown. The hierarchy at the CAR and at the World rankings is still largely the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 10:27pm
The better translation of Jun's twitter is:
"Ma Long's lose, Niwa's win, is because of the difference of the ball." 

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

Above article talked about the impact of plastic balls during the Asian games of April 2017:
 
1) Chinese national team manager Huang Biao pointed out the new plastic balls are not benefit the players that specialized in strong spin, esp. the players of Chinese team. 
2) Japanese player Mizutani Jun in his twitter pointed out Ma Long's lose to Niwa is because of the change of the ball. 

I verified the 2) with Jun's twitter in Japanese. He did say that. But he also pointed out the new ball is an opportunity for everyone. (My comment: That is always true, as long as he/she is not emphasize spin or defensive play.)  



Na Long never played Niwa at the Asian Champs so this is all suspicious. Ma Long lost to Jeong Sang Run and Xu Xin lost to Niwa. But Xu Xin had lost to Niwa in the cell ball era as the Asian singles event where Niwa first beat Cu Con used cell. Ma Long had also lost to Niwa during the cell ball era, though the circumstances were not win or go home finality.

Niwa's twitter post in Japanese (2017-04-15):
水谷隼‏認証済みアカウント @Mizutani__Jun  4月15日
その他
 美宇ちゃんすげぇ😍👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
ワールドカップでティモが中国人3連破して優勝したの思い出した😄

馬龍負けたり、丹羽が勝ったりボールが違うだけでこんだけ波乱起こるんだもん😅
ニッタクや新ボールだったら全選手にチャンスあるよ🙆‍♂️👍
まじでこれからの卓球界楽しみ☆

Google translation:
Mizutani Fuyu Authenticated Account @ Mizutani__Jun April 15
Other
 Miu chan is great
I remembered that Timo won the world championship three consecutive Chinese winning 😄

Horse dragon loses, Niwa wins, balls are just different, it will happen to be a wave
If it's a Nitaku or a new ball there will be opportunities for all players 🙆 ♂ ️👍
Seriously, I'm looking forward to the future table tennis festival ☆



Edited by book4all - 08/05/2017 at 10:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 10:20pm
What is interesting though is that CNT returned to tbeir usual dominance at WTTC just two months later using very similar ABS 40+ balls. The DHS D40+ ball plays very similarly to the Nittaku Premium and both are made of ABS. In this context "new ball" means ABS 40+ as opposed to cellulose acetate 40+ used starting in 2014. The Chinese manager is not talking about celluloid at all in tnose comments.

The notion that Nittaku balls explained some uncharacteristic CNT losses at ATTC never seemed convincing to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

Above article talked about the impact of plastic balls during the Asian games of April 2017:
 
1) Chinese national team manager Huang Biao pointed out the new plastic balls are not benefit the players that specialized in strong spin, esp. the players of Chinese team. 
2) Japanese player Mizutani Jun in his twitter pointed out Ma Long's lose to Niwa is because of the change of the ball. 

I verified the 2) with Jun's twitter in Japanese. He did say that. But he also pointed out the new ball is an opportunity for everyone. (My comment: That is always true, as long as he/she is not emphasize spin or defensive play.)  



Na Long never played Niwa at the Asian Champs so this is all suspicious. Ma Long lost to Jeong Sang Run and Xu Xin lost to Niwa. But Xu Xin had lost to Niwa in the cell ball era as the Asian singles event where Niwa first beat Cu Con used cell. Ma Long had also lost to Niwa during the cell ball era, though the circumstances were not win or go home finality.
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Above article talked about the impact of plastic balls during the Asian games of April 2017:
 
1) Chinese national team manager Huang Biao pointed out the new plastic balls are not benefit the players that specialized in strong spin, esp. the players of Chinese team. 
2) Japanese player Mizutani Jun in his twitter pointed out Ma Long's lose to Niwa is because of the change of the ball. 

I verified the 2) with Jun's twitter in Japanese. He did say that. But he also pointed out the new ball is an opportunity for everyone. (My comment: That is always true, as long as he/she is not emphasize spin or defensive play.)  


Edited by book4all - 08/05/2017 at 10:10pm
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(德国之声中文网) 在今年4月于无锡举行的亚洲锦标赛上,曾包揽里约奥运会所有乒乓球金牌的中国队在绝对优势项目女子单打中意外败北,最终由日本选手平野美宇夺得金牌。而在其他项目中,中国队尽管夺冠,但表现也并不出色。

赛后,包括中国乒乓球队在内,有不少观点都认为,"球"的问题是造成中国球员此次表现不佳的一大原因。中国队领队黄飚在接受媒体采访时指出,新球旋转下降,不利于以强烈旋转为特点的中国选手。而日本顶尖男子选手水谷隼也在推特上表示,日本队夺得女单冠军,"只是因为换球,才出现了这一意外。"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 9:16pm
The above article (in Chinese) is talking about the adverse impact of plastic ball for players of Chinese national team and other provincial professional teams.
     
1) CNT coach Liu Guo Liang said, Zhang JK and XX are injured due to the use of new plastic balls.
2) The new plastic balls demanding more shoulder muscle and that is the body part easily get injured. 
3) Chen Xing Tong said, the new plastic balls are better for those active attackers. Not good for those passive attackers (those using opponent's attack force to counter attack). 
4) New balls benefit attacking pips. Muzi and Mima Ito are two examples getting good results using plastic balls (this matchs my observation of Mima in my early post). 



Edited by book4all - 08/05/2017 at 9:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 9:14pm

中国乒乓球“伤兵满营” 刘国梁:伤在塑料球上

2015年05月07日 10:27 来源:沈阳日报  参与互动(0)
    

  苏州世乒赛之后,中国乒乓球队“伤兵满营”。总教练刘国梁认为,像张继科、许昕就伤在“改用新材质塑料球”上。

  “乒乓球在中国有广泛的群众基础,但如果打球致伤,那么运动健身就没意义了”,沈阳球迷李占峰对记者说,“乒乓球爱好者们是很跟随潮流的,大多业余球手早就改用塑料球了,但通过此次世乒赛之后,大家看着顶级球手都伤在新球之下,那么我们该如何避免呢?”昨天,经记者采访多位专业教练,得出结果——新球时代,加强肩部力量训练很重要。

  刘国梁的“诊断书”

  本届苏州世乒赛上,国乒队医可从来没有这么紧张过,许昕、张继科、丁宁,国乒队医三次冲入场内,在对受伤队员进行紧急治疗之后,要求十分钟的伤病暂停。这在之前的世乒赛中是相当罕见的。

  刘国梁诊断“病根”在于新材质的塑料球。中国乒乓球队已经用了很长的时间来适应新塑料球,顶级选手们均出现了不适应的状况,甚至包括大满贯张继科和李晓霞。

  除丁宁属于救球意外歪伤脚踝之外,像张继科和许昕的伤病基本都出现在肩部。刘国梁认为:“改用新材料球后,球的旋转、速度都有所减弱,需要运动员用比以往更大的力量去击球,打起来也更费劲。平时训练的时候,队员们都感觉比以前要疲劳。一旦比赛强度增大,肩部反应就会比较大。”

  昨天,辽宁籍国手陈幸同也向记者提出了她的分析:“新球的球速和旋转都降低了,对于那些以前喜欢借力打出好球的选手影响稍大,但对于像我这种喜欢主动发力的队员影响很小,所以在国家队,教练要求总体打法趋势就是积极主动的发力。”

  肩部有旧患需多注意

  市体校和省队等基层专业队,从一年前就开始使用塑料球。昨天,记者采访了辽宁乒乓球男队主教练翟一鸣。刚刚从国家队退役回来的翟一鸣认为,“虽然塑料球比赛璐珞球只大了一点点,重了一点点,但就是这种细微的变化对专业运动员影响很大,尤其是顶级男运动员。”

  翟一鸣说:“以前一板就能‘打死’的球,现在可能需要三板,以前需要三板制胜的球,现在可能需要五板,体能消耗增大了。而且大球降低了旋转,若要加大制胜旋转,动作幅度就要相应增大。”

  动作幅度大了,体能消耗高了,“尤其是对于男选手,以及一些顶级水平的女选手,就很容易引起他们的肩伤”,翟一鸣告诉记者,尤其是那些之前就有肩伤的运动员,大球更容易引发肩部旧患。

  据记者了解,就在几天前,辽宁队男选手吴维俊,在训练中就为了增强旋转,加大动作幅度导致肩伤。这几天都是由队医在为他进行按摩,放松舒缓。  

  张继科的“拧”有说道

  乒乓球爱好者担心了,虽然咱是业余的,但新球咱也用了,速度、力量和旋转咱也讲究了,那万一也受伤了怎么办?辽宁乒乓球女队教练张煜建议说:“无论是专业选手还是业余选手,一定要加强肩部力量的训练。再有,若要在新球时代增大胜率,可以多关注进攻型颗粒胶。”

  近几年曾一度被视为“落伍”的进攻型颗粒胶,如今可要“吃香”啦!如果您观看了世乒赛,一定认识了“黑马”木子。木子首次获得世乒赛单打资格,便一路杀入四强,她使用的就是生胶。还有,在八进四的较量中,一度领先李晓霞的日本14岁小将伊藤美诚,反手也是进攻型颗粒胶。“在以前旋转高速的时代,生胶很怕旋转,但在新塑料球时代,旋转降低了,生胶的生存空间自然更大些”,张煜说。

  很多球迷都很关注张继科等选手所使用的“拧”这个动作,张煜介绍说:“这个动作叫反手台内拧拉,是男运动员比较成熟的一种接球技术,这种技术的特点是打乱对手的发球抢攻节奏,使对抗进入相持阶段。”

  本报记者 丁瑶瑶
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

BTW, I wonder... the 40+ balls surely are somewhat different spin-wise, but do they affect the dwelltime of a TT racket? They are a bit heavier, are they not?


About .05 to ,07 g heavier but also harder. Might have an effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 2:50pm
Just back from two hours table tennis games. One of my mission was to quantify my gain and/or loss since the transition to the 40+ plastic balls. 

I was using Yasaka Rakza X Soft on a Butterfly Primorac Carbon. This is my new favorite combination lately. I found Rakza X Soft rubber is good for both light loops and under-spin chopping, very good for plastic balls and is fine for celluloid balls. Butterfly Primorac Carbon blade seems good for push and block. 

We played 4 games with plastic balls and 2 games with celluloid balls. Both balls are Nittaku premium. We were having 21 points games. I first won plastic ball games 21:10, 21:11, 21:12, 21:13. Then I won both games with celluloid balls 21:7 and 21:7. 

We are both quite serious players. We discussed the results after the game. We both concurred that the ball difference to me is huge. With plastic balls, my styles were 80%+ light loops/topspin push. With celluloid balls, my style changed to 80%+ under-spin. My under-spin serves were able to force the opponent returning to net 6-7 times during each 21 points game. In plastic ball games my under-spin did not have this effect. 

Before the game started I told my partner the celluloid ball will tend to cause him returning the balls from my serves and under-spin chops into the net. He told me he made the effort to adjust, but he still keep sending the balls into the net. 

May be 6 out of 21 points is not that a huge difference, but in a close game it is a win or a lose. Then the result of the game means 100% to a winner or a loser. 

Edit: Due to my aged brain, I forgot that I lost one game yesterday to my partner (so I only remember the games I won Tongue ). So I have to modify the win-loss record as below: "We played 5 games with plastic balls and 2 games with celluloid balls. Both balls are Nittaku premium. We were having 21 points games. I first won 4:1 with plastic ball games 21:10, 21:11, 11:21, 21:12, 21:13. Then I won both games with celluloid balls 21:7 and 21:7. "




Edited by book4all - 08/06/2017 at 10:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

I am new to this forum and not known the history of past arguments.

Welcome to the club. You'll become a battle-hardened veteran in no time. Enjoy your stay.

Here is my impressive table tennis resume.

Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:43pm
BTW, I wonder... the 40+ balls surely are somewhat different spin-wise, but do they affect the dwelltime of a TT racket? They are a bit heavier, are they not?
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

I am new to this forum and not known the history of past arguments. It is better just stick to the discussion and not going towards personal attacks. Everyone here is a potential ping pong partner or opponent at the game, let's keep a civilized manner and friendly attitude even with opposite opinions.
Thanks.

You will find it is actually pretty civil most of the time but  for some reason the new 40+ balls (not so new anymore) are one of a handful of subjects that do tend to get people pretty heated.  The reason I suspect is that it can cut to the heart of people's enjoyment of the sport.  It is  a fact that a lot of people have had a hard time getting as much enjoyment from playing with these new balls.  I am not a defender, but that group in particular seems to hate them.  

Personally I fully adjusted quite awhile back (I am definitely not a flat hitter!!!) 

There are a lot of terms that get used in TT discusions that are not real well defined and mean different things to different people, or which are pretty hard to measure and so people go on feel, and that has led to some heated threads over the years.  The biggest "flame wars" I can remember have been about "dwell-time" of the ball on the blade. 

When ITTF was first introducing the idea that we would change the materials of the ball, I think opinion was running about 95% against the idea.  I didn't like it, but ITTF never ever changes their mind about anything, so I knew I had to adapt, and decided to start with them as soon as I could. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I don't have scientific measurements of spin rotation, but I can demonstrate a major (maybe 30%?) difference in spin on the ball.  On my slow-to-medium speed high spin loops, I can find multiple players who cannot block the celluloid ball more than 50% of the time, but who almost never miss against poly.  The difference is so large that it's hard to believe it's the same players.




there are many possible explanations for this beyond the spin on the ball in revs/sec or angular momentum or what ever measure you might make, but I don't want to argue this, it has been argued a lot.  For sure no number anyone provides to the 'reduction in spin' can be taken seriously without a lot of really expensive video measurement under really controlled conditions.  It is moot anyway.  Plastic balls came in 2014.  I personally started using them right away because it was obvious where we were headed.  I know that was before a lot of people did.

The point I made earlier in response to the contention that a young prodigy like Harimoto can only be explained by new balls was that Waldner made the finals of the top continental championship of his era when he was only slightly older and not much bigger.  We will see how Hariomoto plays when he has some muscle mass to go with his amazing skill sets.  (Among other things, he has a ridiculously good serve, amazing for such a young player).  It is too soon to say now.



harimoto hast defeated any world champion ywt unlike hirano. liu beat gatien and waldner when liu was 16

Good point (although one should keep in mind that there is always a question of the actual ages of Chinese players, especially at that time);  but the general point is similar to one that I mentioned about Waldner at 16, so the notion that a prodigy can only exist in the 40+ era is not true.  Against that though, Harimoto is really small.  He looks his age.  Is it that balls helping him?  Unproven.  (I should also mention that when one looks at the history of players that young who have wins like this, it has almost always augured a really bright future.  Harimoto is in good company).

Another interesting point is Gatien, who took balls and ripped them very early right off the bounce.  With 38 mm balls that flew like crazy.  And Wang Tao.  And Deng Yaping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2017 at 11:32am
I am new to this forum and not known the history of past arguments. It is better just stick to the discussion and not going towards personal attacks. Everyone here is a potential ping pong partner or opponent at the game, let's keep a civilized manner and friendly attitude even with opposite opinions.
Thanks.

Edited by book4all - 08/05/2017 at 11:39am
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