Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Greatest female TT player(s) ever?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

tabletennis11.com
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General

Greatest female TT player(s) ever?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
Author
ChichoFicho View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/24/2009
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 1834
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2017 at 6:38am
It is easier to become world champion if you are Chinese. That's why Hyun Jung Hwa's  achievements are greater than those of Zhang, Deng and any other Chinese.

Edited by ChichoFicho - 08/11/2017 at 6:39am
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2017 at 8:58am
"It is easier to become world champion if you are Chinese."

Explain why? While if you are born in China and you happen to get picked by a TT coach at age 3 and train for the next 20 years, you still have to beat OTHER Chinese players who also have been training since age 3. Your argument is just silly.

FdT
Back to Top
TT newbie View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/25/2011
Location: Far Far Away
Status: Offline
Points: 665
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2017 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"It is easier to become world champion if you are Chinese."

Explain why? While if you are born in China and you happen to get picked by a TT coach at age 3 and train for the next 20 years, you still have to beat OTHER Chinese players who also have been training since age 3.
I have to agree. Just being a national team player in China must be one of the most challenging tasks in table tennis. Being a champion out of that is yet another level.
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4505
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2017 at 4:57pm
Deng Yaping for sure
if she played 2 to 4 more years, ZYN would not be even close to her.
Not to mention, playing till 30 is possible (6 more years)
President & Head Coach
Tony's Table Tennis
(Shop, Academy, Agency)
Yasaka Sponsored Coach
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 3:06am
Came across these two games....the pace is unreal. 

Zhang Yi Ning vs Gue Yuo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaIPXDZXRY

Zhang Yi Ning vs Feng Tianwei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-cHdTv6K4


Great games!!


FdT



Edited by Fulanodetal - 08/13/2017 at 3:07am
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

Came across these two games....the pace is unreal. 

Zhang Yi Ning vs Gue Yuo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaIPXDZXRY

Zhang Yi Ning vs Feng Tianwei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-cHdTv6K4


Great games!!


FdT



Greetings and salutations from MYTT's very own National Fossil!

I watched Zhang vs. Gue (couldn't get Zhang vs. Feng, wouldn't come up) and the backhand counterdriving, forehand looping, illegal serving, and insane pace were all, as you say, unreal.

But this nonstop whambam made the musician me think of Chopin's Minute Waltz played fortissimo in 45 seconds by a world class concert pianist with really fast fingers.

A question:  Did Zhang ever play against a defensive player with Rozeanu's World Championship defensive and counterpunching skills?




Edited by berndt_mann - 08/13/2017 at 12:00pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

Came across these two games....the pace is unreal. 

Zhang Yi Ning vs Gue Yuo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTaIPXDZXRY

Zhang Yi Ning vs Feng Tianwei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-cHdTv6K4


Great games!!


FdT




Greetings and salutations from MYTT's very own National Fossil!

I watched Zhang vs. Gue (couldn't get Zhang vs. Feng, wouldn't come up) and the backhand counterdriving, forehand looping, illegal serving, and insane pace were all, as you say, unreal.

But this nonstop whambam made the musician me think of Chopin's Minute Waltz played fortissimo in 45 seconds by a world class concert pianist with really fast fingers.

A question:  Did Zhang ever play against a defensive player with Rozeanu's World Championship defensive and counterpunching skills?








no way roseanu couldnt withstand the power of a player like pota.even without tensors or booster the modern tt is more efficient.

roseanu would be destroyed by junior female players
I have played against pros using old generation unboosted unglued players like mark v and the spin and power they get is sick. The amount of spin of a top40 female player with a 729 unboosted rubber is something you cant believe and can win a 2500 just slow looping



comparing players from 60s or older againstis a
Back to Top
pgpg View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 12:43pm
Embedded YT links:

Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

Came across these two games....the pace is unreal. 

Zhang Yi Ning vs Gue Yuo


Zhang Yi Ning vs Feng Tianwei





Great games!!


FdT

USATT: 1700
Baracuda - Defplay - Dornenglanz OX
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 1:00pm
"A question:  Did Zhang ever play against a defensive player with Rozeanu's World Championship defensive and counterpunching skills?"

Zhang Yi Ning vs Pavlovich Viktoria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPh6Vm6Od9s

Z Y N vs Wu Yan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GcwiAjkrQ

Now I predict Berindt will insist these choppers are not world champions of the universe or whatever, but then my rebuttal will be, did Rozeanu play against these choppers who are undoubtedly BETTER than those opponents that Rozeanu ever faced? Im confident these two choppers would have had Rozeanu for breakfast and then some!!!!

FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 08/13/2017 at 1:00pm
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"A question:  Did Zhang ever play against a defensive player with Rozeanu's World Championship defensive and counterpunching skills?"

Zhang Yi Ning vs Pavlovich Viktoria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPh6Vm6Od9s

Z Y N vs Wu Yan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GcwiAjkrQ

Now I predict Berindt will insist these choppers are not world champions of the universe or whatever, but then my rebuttal will be, did Rozeanu play against these choppers who are undoubtedly BETTER than those opponents that Rozeanu ever faced? Im confident these two choppers would have had Rozeanu for breakfast and then some!!!!

FdT


Hey there FdT,

Legitimate question.  Rozeanu did play four times in the finals of the World Championship against Gizella Farkas, who, like male and female internationals from the '30s on through the mid-'50s could forehand and backhand chop quite capably. 

She also played at a time when the singles, team events, doubles and mixed doubles were played in the same year.  Her record in these events speaks for itself.

I am not familiar with Wu Yan, but I did see Viktoria Pavlovitch play at the 2004 U.S. Open.  A fine chopper, a backswing a bit higher than Rozeanu's, with an excellent forehand counter but not a great deal of backhand offense due to the long pips she used to chop back loop drives.  Rozeanu, BTW, also had a backhand topspin looking somewhat modern, and an old school forehand topspin resembling Barna's.

I rejoice in your confidence, but once again I must ask you:  have this six-time World Champion for breakfast with what?  A 1950s Rozeanu style hardbat?  We'll never know, though it's fun to speculate and debate upon this possibility, but based upon the snippets of video I've seen, as opposed to YouTube in high definition, no breakfast for either Pavlovitch or Wu hb to hb.

bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 4:25pm
(bbkon)  no way roseanu couldnt withstand the power of a player like pota.even without tensors or booster the modern tt is more efficient.

roseanu would be destroyed by junior female players

Destroyed by junior female players with what?  A precise duplicate of Rozeanu's hardbat, rubber matching and weighted to 1/10th of a gram?  We'll never know, but as the Everly Brothers sang, dream dream dream.
 
(bbkon)  I have played against pros using old generation unboosted unglued players like mark v and the spin and power they get is sick. The amount of spin of a top40 female player with a 729 unboosted rubber is something you cant believe and can win a 2500 just slow looping

FYI, bbkon I've played with 729 unboosted on a 1991 Juic Carbonado.  It was pretty fast and quite spinny.  I've also played with '70s generation Mark V, the Bryce or Tenergy or Hurricane of its day.  I've even played ph/rph with Bryce.  I haven't always been a born again hardbat man.  I've even used speed glue. 

But this so-called efficiency you cite is a tad misguided.  Modern tt "more efficient" simply because modern rubbers from Mark V to 729 to Bryce to Tenergy and Hurricane are "more efficient" for an attacking game?
That happens to be right, but it also happens to beg the question.

Could a player like Pota,  no tensors, no booster, withstand the deadly efficient biting chop and counters  of Rozeanu in a best 3 of 5 games to 21 points with 38 mm. balls and a fair and square hardbat, capable of both offense and defense from both forehand and backhand?  Pota does not get my vote-a.
 


Edited by berndt_mann - 08/13/2017 at 4:48pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

(bbkon)  no way roseanu couldnt withstand the power of a player like pota.even
without tensors or booster the modern tt is more efficient.

roseanu would be destroyed by junior female players

Destroyed by junior female players with what?  A precise duplicate of Rozeanu's hardbat, rubber matching and weighted to 1/10th of a gram?  We'll never know, but as the Everly Brothers sang, dream dream dream.
 
(bbkon)  I
have played against pros using old generation unboosted unglued players
like mark v and the spin and power they get is sick. The amount of spin
of a top40 female player with a 729 unboosted rubber is something you
cant believe and can win a 2500 just slow looping

FYI, bbkon I've played with 729 unboosted on a 1991 Juic Carbonado.  It was pretty fast and quite spinny.  I've also played with '70s generation Mark V, the Bryce or Tenergy or Hurricane of its day.  I've even played ph/rph with Bryce.  I haven't always been a born again hardbat man.  I've even used speed glue. 

But this so-called efficiency you cite is a tad misguided.  Modern tt "more efficient" simply because modern rubbers from Mark V to 729 to Bryce to Tenergy and Hurricane are "more efficient" for an attacking game?
That happens to be right, but it also happens to beg the question.

Could a player like Pota,  no tensors, no booster, withstand the deadly efficient biting chop and counters  of Rozeanu in a best 3 of 5 games to 21 points with 38 mm. balls and a fair and square hardbat, capable of both offense and defense from both forehand and backhand?  Pota does not get my vote-a.
 





I dont need to dream because my standards are ok and not my fault your aging very old stars got washed away in the past.rozeanu played so slow that they could play in pants maybe it could be renamed as soft pong

like asking a girl" what player would you want to be ding ning or rozeanu?

pota or any young player of this planet wouldnt get your vote because they re not old and junior players would destroy rozeanu with any hardbat paddle because the current generation is more athletic



Edited by bbkon - 08/13/2017 at 6:29pm
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 9:55pm
"Could a player like Pota,  no tensors, no booster, withstand the deadly efficient biting chop and counters  of Rozeanu in a best 3 of 5 games to 21 points with 38 mm."

Berndt you make the simple asumption that using booster magically wins you points! Have you even tried it? I bet not since you think that boosting is like what happens to Popeye after eating spinach or something. I tried speed gluing and I tried boosting.  guess what, you still have to win the points yourself!! And you still lose games. There is no guarantee of wining games by boosting. You also keep making one sided assessments. What makes you think that the modern choppers could not figure out one, two or three tactics to beat Rozeanu with the unfamiliar old equipment, and what makes you think Rozeanu would be able to figure out modern equipment? I think she would have a harder time trying to figure out the modern equipment than the modern choppers would have in trying to figure out the old equipment. Same goes for Barna. The modern game has three main tactical elements: placement, spin and speed. With the old equipment, spin played a more limited part and this means placement and speed were more essential. Modern players are accustomed to using all three elements of the game. Take one of those out, I still think they can use placement and speed (however limited) to their advantage.


FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 08/13/2017 at 9:57pm
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 10:47pm
(bbkon)  I dont need to dream because my standards are ok and not my fault your aging very old stars got washed away in the past.rozeanu played so slow that they could play in pants maybe it could be renamed as soft pong

Hoo boy!  Where to begin?  I guess by first saying that I don't care one way or another about your standards.  And unfortunately, all (my) very aging stars of the past are washed away, as you eloquently put it, inasmuch as they are all dead.  Barna died in 1972, Rozeanu in 2006.  

It seems to me that you have not seen, or perhaps I do not know have not wished to see, table tennis as played by champions like Barna and Rozeanu.  This is not surprising.  Table tennis is a sport in which many present day players either do not know its history or do not care about the players, male and female, who made the sport competitive and who are justly recognized by those familiar with both past and present day table tennis for their contributions to the sport and their skillful play.

Some table tennis players played in pants in the early to mid-1950s, others did not.  I know of no female player who played wearing pants during that era.  "Soft pong" does not need to be denied credence by any comment of mine.  Rozeanu was primarily a defensive player, and an underspin stroke goes through the air more slowly than a topspin drive or loop drive.  

It is difficult to believe that you have viewed table tennis as it was played by players the caliber or near caliber of Barna and Rozeanu.  "Soft pong" it definitely was not, but perhaps you were just trying to mimic my penchant for sarcasm.

like asking a girl" what player would you want to be ding ning or rozeanu?

Irrevalent.  Champions present or past do not become champions because of popular preference.

pota or any young player of this planet wouldnt get your vote because they re not old and junior players would destroy rozeanu with any hardbat paddle because the current generation is more athletic

Pota is a very fine chopper indeed, but it's not merely that she wouldn't get my vote because she is young.  If she manages to have an illustrious 23-year career and if I'm still around she just might get my vote.  She's good, but I don't think that she'd be ready for prime time hardbat to hardbat with Rozeanu.  

I had a logic professor tell me once beware of universal conclusions.  I doubt that any present day junior player playing with any hardbat would get more than five or six points from a six-time World Singles Champion.  And as for your statement that the current generation is more athletic, it does not necessarily follow that some of the generation of the 1950s weren't at least as athletic as their present day peers.  Your premises, based on universals, do not and cannot support your conclusion.   
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"Could a player like Pota,  no tensors, no booster, withstand the deadly efficient biting chop and counters  of Rozeanu in a best 3 of 5 games to 21 points with 38 mm."

Berndt you make the simple asumption that using booster magically wins you points! Have you even tried it? I bet not since you think that boosting is like what happens to Popeye after eating spinach or something. I tried speed gluing and I tried boosting.  guess what, you still have to win the points yourself!! And you still lose games. There is no guarantee of wining games by boosting. You also keep making one sided assessments. What makes you think that the modern choppers could not figure out one, two or three tactics to beat Rozeanu with the unfamiliar old equipment, and what makes you think Rozeanu would be able to figure out modern equipment? I think she would have a harder time trying to figure out the modern equipment than the modern choppers would have in trying to figure out the old equipment. Same goes for Barna. The modern game has three main tactical elements: placement, spin and speed. With the old equipment, spin played a more limited part and this means placement and speed were more essential. Modern players are accustomed to using all three elements of the game. Take one of those out, I still think they can use placement and speed (however limited) to their advantage.

FdT

Wow.  Being double teamed by you and bbkon!

Well praise whatever deities that be that a table tennis forum isn't basketball.

As a matter of fact I have tried playing with a boosted racket.  A guy at the Tucson Armory Park club lent me his racket with Tenergy 05 boosted with some booster or another back in around '09 and I gave it a try looping both phfh and rpbbh.  Nothing magical.  It could have been the tables too; they were old Stigas that played as though you were ponging on an ice rink.  

You're right.  Neither speed gluing nor boosting is going to result in your winning games.  But obviously today, far more important than in the 1950s, your choice of a blade and rubber or rubbers from a vast multiciplicity of blades and rubbers certainly doesn't hurt, whether at the club level or the professional level.  So riddle me this:  why do almost all attacking pros, and many amateurs, choose to boost if in your considered opinion there is nothing magical about boosting?

Now let's discuss modern female choppers (theoretically) figuring out, were they interested and could time travel, how to beat Rozeanu using a hardbat.  Moving her up and back and trying to drop shoot her when she chops short?  I believe Rozeanu is familiar with that time honored tactic.  Moving her side to side and hitting suddenly to the position she vacated?  Well if they could do that they would be attackers primarily, not choppers.  The over the table short game with sharply angled pushes? That tactic's been around for a long time.  Trying to outchop Rozeanu and going to expedite?  They'd better have a sudden quick attack better than Rozeanu's with a setup unfamiliar to them.

I don't know whether she'd be able to figure out modern equipment.  I don't even know whether or not Rozeanu would want to.

The classic game did of course rely on spin, though sidespin was not incorporated as much as now because it could be easily returned to either the middle or backhand side of the table by a right-handed player (vs. a right handed opponent).  If your opponent was a lefty, you generally wanted to return the ball closer to the middle of the table to minimize the possibility or a hard crosscourt forehand attack and cut down the severity of the angles your opponent might use against you.


Edited by berndt_mann - 08/13/2017 at 11:26pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/13/2017 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"Could a player like Pota,  no tensors, no booster, withstand the deadly efficient biting chop and counters  of Rozeanu in a best 3 of 5 games to 21 points with 38 mm."

Berndt you make the simple asumption that using booster magically wins you points! Have you even tried it? I bet not since you think that boosting is like what happens to Popeye after eating spinach or something. I tried speed gluing and I tried boosting.  guess what, you still have to win the points yourself!! And you still lose games. There is no guarantee of wining games by boosting. You also keep making one sided assessments. What makes you think that the modern choppers could not figure out one, two or three tactics to beat Rozeanu with the unfamiliar old equipment, and what makes you think Rozeanu would be able to figure out modern equipment? I think she would have a harder time trying to figure out the modern equipment than the modern choppers would have in trying to figure out the old equipment. Same goes for Barna. The modern game has three main tactical elements: placement, spin and speed. With the old equipment, spin played a more limited part and this means placement and speed were more essential. Modern players are accustomed to using all three elements of the game. Take one of those out, I still think they can use placement and speed (however limited) to their advantage.

FdT



Wow.  Being double teamed by you and bbkon!

Well praise whatever deities that be that a table tennis forum isn't basketball.

As a matter of fact I have tried playing with a boosted racket.  A guy at the Tucson Armory Park club lent me his racket with Tenergy 05 boosted with some booster or another back in around '09 and I gave it a try looping both phfh and rpbbh.  Nothing magical.  It could have been the tables too; they were old Stigas that played as though you were ponging on an ice rink.  

You're right.  Neither speed gluing nor boosting is going to result in your winning games.  But obviously today, far more important than in the 1950s, your choice of a blade and rubber or rubbers from a vast multiciplicity of blades and rubbers certainly doesn't hurt, whether at the club level or the professional level.  So riddle me this:  why do almost all attacking pros, and many amateurs, choose to boost if in your considered opinion there is nothing magical about boosting?

Now let's discuss modern female choppers (theoretically) figuring out, were they interested and could time travel, how to beat Rozeanu using a hardbat.  Moving her up and back and trying to drop shoot her when she chops short?  I believe Rozeanu is familiar with that time honored tactic.  Moving her side to side and hitting suddenly to the position she vacated?  Well if they could do that they would be attackers primarily, not choppers.  The over the table short game with sharply angled pushes? That tactic's been around for a long time.  Trying to outchop Rozeanu and going to expedite?  They'd better have a sudden quick attack better than Rozeanu's with a setup unfamiliar to them.

I don't know whether she'd be able to figure out modern equipment.  I don't even know whether or not Rozeanu would want to.

The classic game did of course rely on spin, though sidespin was not incorporated as much as now because it could be easily returned to either the middle or backhand side of the table by a right-handed player (vs. a right handed opponent).  If your opponent was a lefty, you generally wanted to return the ball closer to the middle of the table to minimize the possibility or a hard crosscourt forehand attack and cut down the severity of the angles your opponent might use against you.



if you play too soft and slow you cant feel the boosting i wonder if your room is covered with rozeanu' wall papers
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 12:03am
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

(bbkon)  <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I dont need to dream because my standards are ok and not my fault your aging very old stars got washed away in the past.rozeanu played so slow that they could play in pants maybe it could be renamed as soft pong</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Hoo boy!  Where to begin?  I guess by first saying that I don't care one way or another about your standards.  And unfortunately, all (my) very aging stars of the past are washed away, as you eloquently put it, inasmuch as they are all dead.  Barna died in 1972, Rozeanu in 2006.  </span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">It seems to me that you have not seen, or perhaps I do not know have not wished to see, table tennis as played by champions like Barna and Rozeanu.  This is not surprising.  Table tennis is a sport in which many present day players either do not know its history or do not care about the players, male and female, who made the sport competitive and who are justly recognized by those familiar with both past and present day table tennis for their contributions to the sport and their skillful play.</span>

Some table tennis players played in pants in the early to mid-1950s, others did not.  I know of no female player who played wearing pants during that era.  "Soft pong" does not need to be denied credence by any comment of mine.  Rozeanu was primarily a defensive player, and an underspin stroke goes through the air more slowly than a topspin drive or loop drive.  

It is difficult to believe that you have viewed table tennis as it was played by players the caliber or near caliber of Barna and Rozeanu.  "Soft pong" it definitely was not, but perhaps you were just trying to mimic my penchant for sarcasm.
<br style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">like asking a girl" what player would you want to be ding ning or rozeanu?</span>

Irrevalent.  Champions present or past do not become champions because of popular preference.<br style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">pota or any young player of this planet wouldnt get your vote because they re not old and junior players would destroy rozeanu with any hardbat paddle because the current generation is more athletic</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Pota is a very fine chopper indeed, but it's not merely that she wouldn't get my vote because she is young.  If she manages to have an illustrious 23-year career and if I'm still around she just might get my vote.  She's good, but I don't think that she'd be ready for prime time hardbat to hardbat with Rozeanu.  </span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I had a logic professor tell me once beware of universal conclusions.  I doubt that <b style="font-style: italic;">any present day junior player playing with <b style="font-style: italic;">any <span style="font-style: italic;">hardbat would get more than five or six points from a six-time World Singles Champion.  And as for your statement that the current generation is more athletic, it does not necessarily follow that some of the generation of the 1950s weren't at least as athletic as their present day peers.  Your premises, based on universals, do not and cannot support your conclusion. </span><b style="font-style: italic;">  </span>



no matter what a young player could do..she NEVER would get your vote because it seems being young is bad for you, most players older than 60 think like that.

Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 3:03am
"So riddle me this:  why do almost all attacking pros, and many amateurs, choose to boost if in your considered opinion there is nothing magical about boosting?"

Frankly I dont know. Im not a pro, and i cant speak for them. Also, It is not an established fact that they ALL boost their rubbers. thats a major assumption that needs to be confirmed. Personally I dont boost. I feel I am sacrificing control to gain some speed, and rubbers have a shorter lifespan. So I think in my case, its stupid to boost, but I dont feel like telling others if they should boost or not. Its just not my place to do so, I just dont quite care so much.

In any case, I dont buy the notion that Rozeanu would overcome modern defenders. The Era of pre sponge table tennis is long gone. Along with the dinosaurs. So let it be in the museum where it belongs!!!

FdT
Back to Top
ZingyDNA View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2053
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 9:47am
Of course she could. Any modern pro player can beat world champs in hardbat era with hardbat, if they train with hardbat for a while. People are a lot stronger and faster than 60 years ago!

Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:


Could a player like Pota,  no tensors, no booster, withstand the deadly efficient biting chop and counters  of Rozeanu in a best 3 of 5 games to 21 points with 38 mm. balls and a fair and square hardbat, capable of both offense and defense from both forehand and backhand?  Pota does not get my vote-a.
 



Back to Top
MLfan View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/23/2015
Location: China
Status: Offline
Points: 413
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 11:31am
Lol ZYN for sure.
And boosting is done by EVERY pro lol. Boosting doesn't sacrifice control...

Edited by MLfan - 08/14/2017 at 11:32am
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">So riddle me this:  why do almost all attacking pros, and many amateurs, choose to boost if in your considered opinion there is nothing magical about boosting?"</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Frankly I dont know. Im not a pro, and i cant speak for them. Also, It is not an established fact that they ALL boost their rubbers. thats a major assumption that needs to be confirmed. Personally I dont boost. I feel I am sacrificing control to gain some speed, and rubbers have a shorter lifespan. So I think in my case, its stupid to boost, but I dont feel like telling others if they should boost or not. Its just not my place to do so, I just dont quite care so much.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">In any case, I dont buy the notion that Rozeanu would overcome modern defenders. The Era of pre sponge table tennis is long gone. Along with the dinosaurs. So let it be in the museum where it belongs!!!</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">FdT</span>


maybe still using a type writer floppy disk coal iron


Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 1:22pm
"Boosting doesn't sacrifice control..."

I was very careful to mention "in my case". Learn how to read!!!!
I was also very careful to say "I don't want to tell others Not to boost"...did you  miss that as well?
Your reading skills are questionable.

"And boosting is done by EVERY pro lol"

Please provide evidence of this claim. EVERY professional is boosting their rubbers? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM??? yeah, I'll need some proof. Then I'll agree.

FdT



Edited by Fulanodetal - 08/14/2017 at 1:23pm
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Boosting doesn't sacrifice control..."</span>

I was very careful to mention "in my case". Learn how to read!!!!
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I was also very careful to say "I don't want to tell others Not to boost"...did you  miss that as well?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Your reading skills are questionable.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">"And boosting is done by EVERY pro lol"</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Please provide evidence of this claim. EVERY professional is boosting their rubbers? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM??? yeah, I'll need some proof. Then I'll agree.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">FdT</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>



rubber from mizutani are curled upward and one rubber from him smell like chemicals and the sponsored bty players have booster developed for tenergy stored in a small silver bottle with no label. the smell and curl of a pro s rubbers is obvius
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 1:56pm
Yeah, there might be a percentage of pros that resort to boosting. I have no problem believing that. My issue is whith the claim that ALL OF THEM resort to boosting. That's the claim that needs to be supported by some evidence.

Mizutani? I dont know, I thought he did not but perhaps there is evidence he does. 
I never argued NO pros resort to boosting.....you need to develop your reading skills as much as you have developed your looping skills (presumably). 

FdT



Edited by Fulanodetal - 08/14/2017 at 1:56pm
Back to Top
berndt_mann View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2015
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 6:05pm
(ZingyDNA)  Of course she (I presume Pota) could. Any modern pro player can beat world champs in hardbat era with hardbat, if they train with hardbat for a while. People are a lot stronger and faster than 60 years ago! 

I hope that you realize that you are kidding.  How long would it take "any modern pro player" to defeat a player hardbat to hardbat of Rozeanu's caliber and credentials, who started playing table tennis at age 8 and ended her career 30 years later?  And how long do you suppose "train(ing) with hardbat for a while would take?  10 minutes?  A week?  A month?  A year?  Thirty years? 

I hope too that you realize that you cannot be serious.  Have you seen (since this is a thread about who the greatest female ever might be) Rozeanu's play on British Pathe or other media on YouTube?  Have you ever played competitive table tennis using a hardbat?  What reasons can you present  to persuade me to believe that you really know about what you are writing? 

Angelica Rozeanu (October 15, 1921, in Bucharest, Romania – February 22, 2006, in Haifa, Israel) was a Romanian table tennis player of Jewish origin, and one of the most successful female table tennis players in the history of the sport.

תוכן עניינים

Table tennis career

She started playing table tennis at the age of 8. She had scarlet fever and when convalescing her brother Gaston, almost eight years her elder, came home with table tennis bats, balls, and a net to entertain her.

At the age of 12 she won the Romanian Cup. She won her first major title, the Romanian national women's championship, at the age of 15 in 1936. She remained Romania's female champion for the next 21 years (1936–57; excluding the war years 1940–45, when she did not compete).

In 1938 she won her first major international competition at the Hungarian Open.

Interrupted by World War II, from 1940 to 1944 she was barred from even entering a gymnasium in Romania, she played virtually no table tennis from the age of 18 to the age of 23.

Rozeanu won her first World Championship in 1950, starting the winning run that would see her win the championship six years in succession, a feat yet to be matched. She was also the last non-Asian woman to win the title.

In total, she won 17 world titles (and 12 silver and bronze medals at the World Championships), including the world's women's doubles title three times (1953–55; in 1953 with Giselle Farkas of Hungary and in 1954 and 1955 with Ella Zeller of Romania), and the world mixed doubles titles three times (1951–53; 1951, with Bohumil Vana of Czechoslovakia, and in 1952 and 1953, with Ferenc Sido of Hungary.).

She was the first Romanian woman to win a World title in any sport. Being by far Romania's greatest profile in the sport, she was also the President of the Romanian Table Tennis Commission from 1950 to 1960.

Appointed as a Deputy of the Bucharest Municipality in 1955, she and other Jewish players found themselves forced out of the Romanian Federation in 1957 when an anti-Semite rose to the chairman position.

In 1960 Rozeanu moved to Israel, where she continued to play professionally. In 1961 she won the Maccabiah Games Table Tennis Championship and she was Israel's champion three times, between 1960–62.

She kept in touch with her native Romania, and visited it for the last time in 2005.

In 2006 she died at the age of 84.

Playing style

Her abilities were revealed less in the power of her shots than in her exceptional footwork, ball control, determination, grace, natural ability, and technique. . She knew when to attack and when to defend, exhibiting unnerving patience during even the longest points. The Second World War disrupted the international game, but she returned to competition with a more attacking style.

Recognition

In 1954, Angelica Rozeanu was presented the highest sports distinction in Romania — the title of Merited Master of Sport. She also received four Order of Work honors from her government.

In 1997 she was awarded the Knesset Medal.

She was awarded the title of Honorary Citizen of Haifa in 2001.

Halls of Fame

  • Rozeanu was inducted into the International Jewish Sports Hall of Fame in 1981.
  • Rozeanu was inducted into the International Table Tennis Foundation Hall of Fame in 1995.
  • www.jewage.org/wiki/he/Article:Angelica_Rozeanu_-_Biography




Edited by berndt_mann - 08/14/2017 at 6:38pm
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 12156
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 6:33pm
Back to Top
mts388 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/21/2014
Location: Sonora CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

People can see here the player in question and decide for themselves what level they are seeing.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrTcYE4u4hZ8wcA4YcunIlQ?p=Angelica%20Rozeanu&fr=yhs-mozilla-100&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Ai%2Cm%3Apivot&hsimp=yhs-100&hspart=mozilla#id=2&vid=262bc669fea77801d91b6cdc6a554aa4&action=view




Thanks Baal.  There's no question in my mind that she was a tremendous athlete.  I'm very impressed.
Back to Top
bbkon View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 04/19/2005
Location: Afghanistan
Status: Offline
Points: 6801
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

People can see here the player in question and decide for themselves what level they are seeing.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrTcYE4u4hZ8wcA4YcunIlQ?p=Angelica%20Rozeanu&fr=yhs-mozilla-100&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Ai%2Cm%3Apivot&hsimp=yhs-100&hspart=mozilla#id=2&vid=262bc669fea77801d91b6cdc6a554aa4&action=view






no way rozeanu can be better than deng yaping, rozeanu is nowhere near to have the same skills as deng amount of spin speed. bendt and his endless motto " old is always better" . in that era table tennis wasnt a complete sport no insideout serves no fast loop no high toss

deng ding ning would have been at least 8 times world champion playing in the same era like rozeanu the amount of spin of rozeanu is a joke .as spinny as 9 year old hardbat


Edited by bbkon - 08/14/2017 at 8:08pm
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 10:11pm
definitely nice to see the lady in question. No doubt she had skills. Is it me or is her racket quite large?
Anyway good to see some footage.

FdT
Back to Top
Fulanodetal View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/28/2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 10:46pm
Hey Berndt, I have a question....If I wanted to replicate the equipment used by the pros back in the 40's....what setup would best replicate their equipment? Something that's available and not too expensive...I would like to try it out. I wanna see how much spin, especially top spin I can generate with that equipment.

Thx.

FdT.


Edited by Fulanodetal - 08/14/2017 at 10:47pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer