Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - stiff VS hard blade?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Home Forum Home > Equipment > Equipment

stiff VS hard blade?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
TAW View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/14/2012
Location: egy
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: stiff VS hard blade?
    Posted: 08/08/2017 at 3:30am
what are the deterrents between stiff and hard blade?Smile
or 
stiff blade mean what?
hard blade mean what?
taw
Back to Top
Tinykin View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/30/2003
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2005
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2017 at 4:06am
Others can correct me, but I've always assumed that these terms relate to how players perceive the blades' playing characteristics.
Stiffness is the flexibility of the blade in play, eg Stiga Alser and the old Bengsston version are so flexy that they are known for breaking at the neck. Great control usually.
Hardness relates to the material (mostly) of the blade and how it feels when striking the ball. eg Koto blades tend to have a harder feel than its limba counterparts.

Let me add one more, mushy.
Mushy relates to a certain lack of feel in that the player tends not to be able to relate to what's happening. Several carbon blades fall into this category


Edited by Tinykin - 08/08/2017 at 4:09am
>60yo, 60lbs overweight

Darker Speed 90 + Tibhar EL-S / EL-S

When all else fails, there is always delusion.
Back to Top
*_strataras_* View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/19/2010
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 802
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2017 at 4:07am
In very few words, stiff blade means a blade which has no vibrations when the ball hits the racket. (You dont feel the blade decently vibrating in your hand)
Hard blade means a blade wich has hard feeling. In other words, when the ball hits the blade, the racket leaves a feeling in the hand, and some blades leave soft feeling and some others medium or hard feeling.
OSP Virtuoso SQST
Tenergy 05(black 1,9mm FH)
Tenergy 05(red 1,9mm BH)

Feedback
Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2017 at 12:32pm
+ 1

Let me add two examples to explain the difference

Butterfly Keyshot Light = stiff, but with soft feeling
Nexy Calix = flexy with hard feeling

The thicker a blade is, the stiffer it is (normally)
Back to Top
taczkid View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/19/2016
Location: ILLINOIS
Status: Offline
Points: 186
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taczkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2017 at 12:46pm
Stiff = NO Flex/No Vibration
Hard = hard wood,carbon usually refers to the feeling of the blade(high pitch when knocking on it with finger)


Most of the carbon (off +) blades like Schlager Carbon (are both stiff and have a hard feeling.
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 4772
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2017 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

In very few words, stiff blade means a blade which has no vibrations when the ball hits the racket. (You dont feel the blade decently vibrating in your hand)

Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

Stiff = NO Flex/No Vibration

I'm not sure that this is completely accurate. Look at stiff wooden blades like the clipper - they still have good feeling.

The "no vibrations" is usually from the carbon or other fiber. Those fibers add stiffness but also dampen feel. That's why even flexible OFF- blades with carbon fiber have less vibrations.




Edited by icontek - 08/08/2017 at 1:07pm
US1260.RC952 . 2011 maine state champ CLASS B . OSP Virtuoso DHSTG2+CJ8000
Back to Top
garwor View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 06/02/2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garwor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 3:25am
stiff = no bending, no torsion
Equipment database

Viscaria FL
fh: DHS Skyline neo tg2
bh: Xiom Vega pro

Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services!
Back to Top
HuLimei View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/10/2017
Location: BTY Factory
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuLimei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 5:48am
Originally posted by TAW TAW wrote:

what are the deterrents between stiff and hard blade?Smile
or 
stiff blade mean what?
hard blade mean what?

These is no one true definition. A "stiff blade" is a blade that a MYTT user sells so he can buy "da current greatest blade wid soft feeling and long dwell tyme."
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Online
Points: 11469
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 9:29am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

<span style="font-size: 12px;">
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

In very few words, stiff blade means a blade which has no vibrations when the ball hits the racket. (You dont feel the blade decently vibrating in your hand)</span><span style="font-size: 12px;">
</span>

Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

Stiff = NO Flex/No Vibration


I'm not sure that this is completely accurate. <span style="font-size: 12px;">Look at stiff wooden blades like the clipper - they still have good feeling.</span>

The "no vibrations" is usually from the carbon or other fiber. Those fibers add stiffness but also dampen feel. <span style="font-size: 12px;">That's why even flexible OFF- blades with carbon fiber have less vibrations.</span>





There are different modes of vibration but the concept is still generally correct.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Nexy Tibhar KJH FL
FH: Karis M B
BH: Karis M R
Lumberjack TT Exponent
No train, no gain.
Back to Top
TAW View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/14/2012
Location: egy
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 6:12am
nowday ,, i notice butterfly blade gategory depend on reaction properties and vibration 
they do not speak about stiffness and hardness of blade as other company 
what did you think, why?LOL


taw
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11727
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2017 at 7:02am
The key to this is that when a blade strikes a blade it vibrates at multiple frequencies which you sense in your hand and which gives it the feeling of how it plays. 

The lowest frequency of vibration is the flex.  A blade that is stiff vibrates at a lower amplitude at that lower frequency.  A flexy blade has a higher amplitude of vibration at the lowest frequencies.  Blades also vibrate at higher frequencies simultaneously.  (That is why a violin and a flute sound different even when they play the same pitch).  Here is a picture that sort of shows the idea.



The composite waveform is the sum of the various vibrations occurring simultaneously.

Most blades that are stiff are also hard, but they don't have to be.  You could make a blade with hard woods, especially on the outside but make it relatively thin.  A blade like that will flex but will also feel somewhat hard.  Not many blades are like that but it is possible to build one.

A lot of composite materials, and especially arylate (Vectran), kevlar, and various other polyarymides are really good at absorbing high frequency vibrations in materials.  Zylon does not do that so much, so blades with zylon feel a little harder or crisper than blades with arylate.  Arylate and arylate-carbon blades tend to have a "soft" feel even when they have relatively hard outer woods like koto because of the absorption of the high frequency vibrations by the composite layer, and also because in many cases the core wood of the blade is a softer wood.  That is why a blade like a Viscaria feels relatively soft compared to something like, say, a Schlager carbon, or even a ZJK-sZLC.  It is relatively stiff (but not as stiff as an Iolite or a Garaydia) and this is what gives it a larger "sweet spot" without it feeling like you are playing with a piece of glass.

Balsa blades are actually made of a very soft material.

The subject turns out to be really complex.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer