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New Nittaku HURRICANE PRO3 TURBO ORANGE

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Derf59 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/25/2017 at 10:26pm
I've seen Nittaku has released a new version of H3

HURRICANE PRO3 TURBO ORANGE
Faster now with active charge. Great superfast combination of the Chinese Hurricane tacky top sheet and the Japanese high reaction sponge. More speed than ever.

http://iruiru.com/goods_page.php?ct=A&mk=D&gd=AD109
http://tt-japan.net/index.php?main_page ... ts_id=3580

Does anybody have tried it ?
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HuLimei View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuLimei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2017 at 2:41am
Xu Xin probably uses a version of that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derf59 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2017 at 6:08am
Any information about the sponge (type, hardness, ...) ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sedis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2017 at 6:26am
Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Any information about the sponge (type, hardness, ...) ?

They mention "Active charge" which suggests it is going to be similar to the sponges used in Alhelg and Flyatt rubbers made for them by Daiki.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kucharski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2017 at 9:50am
I tried it in a booth here in Japan, the sponge is some what porous but not like the latest esn rubbers, the topsheet doesn't have the traditional tack the speed is as fast or slower than tinarc 3.
Impossible is really impossible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derf59 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2017 at 9:11pm
@kucharski, what's the color of the sponge ? Does this h3 feel similar to H3-50 ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 4:27am
Some good pictures and impressions here:

http://taku-tsu.jp/content/?p=6545

It does look a bit like a Daiki sponge.  The topsheet is ITTF code 24-038 - the specific one DHS made for Nittaku for previous jap sponge versions (named as Nittaku Hurricane Pro III on the LARC).
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 4:45am
Not easy to understand with google translator, but the parts, that I understand, sound good.
I have also ordered one piece from tt-japan.net, but it will need some weeks until I get it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 9:20am
Mima Ito has actually switched to this rubber, can't be that bad Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamj8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 4:27pm
Looks awesome. Can't wait to try it out. If it behaves like H3 neo but is slightly faster and better at driving this would be perfect for me. Wonder what the weight and hardness are like. It says 45 degrees in the link posted above. I take it that's based on this scale (opposed to the DHS scale)? http://www.tabletennisdb.com/dictionary/sponge-hardness/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 5:45pm
If it's a 45 degree on the ESN scale I would think that would be close to 39 degree on the DHS scale. But I really don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 6:08pm
So, it's like a Nittaku H3 pro, with a new sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kucharski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 6:26pm
Derf59, i think h3-50 sponge is softer than h3 turbo so it has different feel that of h3-50. The sponge is light orange when it tried it it was on a nittaku ma long 7 blade but i think if it was put on a faster blade i will be able to appreciate it. Btw, when i do topspin vs the robot in the booth i observed that the ball accelerates after it bounces the on table.

Edited by kucharski - 08/27/2017 at 6:27pm
Impossible is really impossible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Roger Stillabower Roger Stillabower wrote:

If it's a 45 degree on the ESN scale I would think that would be close to 39 degree on the DHS scale. But I really don't know.

Nah, 39 Shore A feels way harder than ESN 47.5.

P.S.
It's said Tin Arc 5, which is made in Germany, uses the Shore C scale, and 42.5 is roughly equal to 32-33 Shore A, whereas 47.5 is roughly 34-35 Shore A.

Edited by zeio - 08/27/2017 at 9:05pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 10:30pm
I think it was Shore O, not C for ESN rubbers, but other than that I believe you are correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 11:47pm
From official DHS FAQ,

Quote 为什么金弓5&8的度数都比较高?
依照德国套胶的传统,金弓5&8采用了邵氏C硬度标准,红双喜狂飚等套胶则一直使用邵氏A硬度标注。邵氏A为针孔式测试,邵氏C则为球形测试方法,这两者不可直接换算。
一般来说,同样的海绵,邵氏C的测试硬度数值较大。海绵越硬,两种测试方法下的硬度数值差越大。
金弓的42.5度相当于邵氏A的32-33度左右,47.5度相当于邵氏A的34-35度左右,50度相当于邵氏A的36-37度左右。
金弓两款套胶的技术特点是什么?

"Conforming with the tradition of German rubbers, Gold Arc 5&8 use the Shore C hardness scale, whereas DHS Hurricane series uses the Shore A hardness scale. Shore A is a pin type test, while Shore C is a ball type test, therefore there is no direct comparison between the two.

In general, for the same sponge, Shore C has a higher hardness value. The harder the sponge, the greater the difference when tested by the two scales.

Gold Arc 42.5 is roughly equal to 32-33 Shore A, 47.5 is roughly equal to 34-35 Shore A, and 50 is roughly equal to 36-37 Shore A."

Edited by zeio - 08/27/2017 at 11:52pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2017 at 11:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 12:39am
Well then DHS has no idea what they are talking about.
I have checked multiple sources and ESN definetly uses Shore O.

If you do not believe me, here is proof.

Shore: A: 30 = 42 O = 9 C.
Shore: A: 35 = 48 O = 12 C.
Shore: A: 40 = 53 O = 14 C.

As if ESN produces most of its rubbers between 9 and 14 deg.

Took me like 1 min googling and 2 min analysing.
The thread that Patrick linked also has ppl wrongly assuming it is C scale. (Except for one person correctly saying it is O scale)
Is putting in 3 min of work that difficult?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 5:20pm
What makes you think I haven't checked the charts before posting and still decided to go ahead?

If you think DHS is nuts, add 729 to make it a pair.

On the back of 729-08, "Shore C scale(Int. Standard) and Shore A scale(Ind. Standard)" are printed on that label.


From other sources, it's stated that 729 uses the Shore W scale, which I bet you'll have a hard time finding any reference material. There is some information pointing that Shore W is actually Asker C, which is equal to Shore E. There is a good chance they are referring to the Asker C as Shore C.

It seems to be the case here, because I have a Taiwanese study that used I believe the Asker C to measure the various models of Donic Vario rubber and they are all with the range of 40-50 degrees when measuring on sponge alone and mid 40s to high 50s when measuring as is(topsheet+sponge).

Look up the hardness data on ooakforum and they were measured with the Shore C scale, which I suspect is Asker C.

Edited by zeio - 07/11/2023 at 5:37am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 6:24pm
Well then, either the chinese rubber manufacturers, or a bunch of scientific articles have to be mistaken. The latter is much less likely to be wrong though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 6:46pm
If you insist, you can contact ESN and ask what scale they use.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 6:57pm
I already did Tongue
My suspicion is that one chinese manufacturers just made an error, which was then copied by the others.
But let's wait and see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 7:46pm
Just to throw a curve ball here: comparing the values, it would make sense if the "Chinese" scale is Shore B, and the European/Japanese/ESN scale is Shore A. Then a Chinese ~40 is equivalent to a European ~52.

Alternatively, the Chinese" scale is Shore A and European/Japanese/ESN scale is Shore O. Again, Chinese ~40 is equivalent to European ~53.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 8:16pm
If I'm not mistaken the Japanese sponge is a different shore than a ESN. I think the Japanese, ESN, and the Chinese are all different shore hardness's. Butterfly's 36/37 is different than a ESN or a Chinese 36/37 hardness.

ZEIO, where you at, need your input here.   

Edited by Roger Stillabower - 08/28/2017 at 8:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 8:55pm
Ya, I'm pretty certain Butterfly uses Asker E for the sponge and Type A(not the typical Asker A) for the topsheet.

Asker E and Asker C share the same scale, as both use the spherical indenter, but slightly different in size and length, and the force applied by Asker E is a little less than Asker C.

Edited by zeio - 08/28/2017 at 9:25pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derf59 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 9:03pm
In France usually (for sponge only) we take for reference ESN and for Japanese (Butterfly) we add 5-6deg to have ESN equivalent and for chinese sponge we add 8-9deg

If we speak of combinaison of sponge + topsheet it's very difficult to appreciate, for exemple a Fastarc G1 has a hard sponge 47deg but a soft topsheet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iamj8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2017 at 11:39pm
Hopefully once this is resolved we can make a guide and make it sticky for future reference.
A version of Hurricane 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2017 at 12:54pm
For reference (from Nittaku):

Hurricane 2/3 (Old Version) - 45

Hurricane Pro 2/3 (Chinese Sponge) - 42.5

Hurricane 2/3 NEO - 42.5

Hurricane 2/3 JS - 37.5

Nittaku has listed Pro 3 Turbo Orange as being 45 hardness. I'm not sure how this sponge could be harder than NEO, but that's what they say.




Edited by liXiao - 08/29/2017 at 12:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2017 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

Hurricane 2/3 NEO - 42.5

I don't know what your exact source it and what scale these numbers refer to but I'm assuming it would be ESN scale.
The Hurricane 3 Neo is a Chinese sponge and it is definitely harder than 42.5º on the ESN scale. It's like a 39º provincial rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2017 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

Hurricane 2/3 NEO - 42.5

I don't know what your exact source it and what scale these numbers refer to but I'm assuming it would be ESN scale.
The Hurricane 3 Neo is a Chinese sponge and it is definitely harder than 42.5º on the ESN scale. It's like a 39º provincial rubber.

My source is Nittaku; when you view a rubber on their website it tells you the hardness and they also have a PDF that has a table of all the rubbers they make, the hardness, and spin and speed ratings.
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