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    Posted: 09/09/2017 at 2:24pm
Finally


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 3:49pm
Finally! I think they decided to release it because of this post of mine. Big smile

Joking aside, when Nittaku released Acoustic Carbon, I emailed them to know whether Violin Carbon was on their release schedule, too. They answered it was, but they could not reveal any dates. That was November 2013. It took them four years...
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Edited by arg0 - 09/09/2017 at 3:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 4:05pm
Interestingly, it has the same thickness as regular Violin, 5.3mm. I would have expected that it were a fraction of mm thicker, because of the carbon, and to allow Nittaku to market it as "adapted for the new ball".

Edit: language


Edited by arg0 - 09/09/2017 at 5:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 5:18pm
OMG I've been waiting this for ages. Now my ej virus was healed :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 5:36pm
Where is this Violin Carbon available? Which shop has it on stock?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 5:45pm
Available November 2017, in two months
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

OMG I've been waiting this for ages. Now my ej virus was healed :(

I bet in a year or so they will rename it Violin Outer Carbon and release an Inner Carbon.

BTW, with reference to your signature. The price of Violin Carbon seems a bit "abusive" to me as well, it's not just Butterfly...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 9:01pm
Oh god yes. This will be "pre-order material"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 5:30am
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

OMG I've been waiting this for ages. Now my ej virus was healed :(

I bet in a year or so they will rename it Violin Outer Carbon and release an Inner Carbon.

BTW, with reference to your signature. The price of Violin Carbon seems a bit "abusive" to me as well, it's not just Butterfly...


Yes, you're right. I'm playing wit a RWV for my 5th season in a row. When I break it, I will never buy any expensive blade again since I can play the same with a Fang Bo 2 or 7 plies version at 40$ or less.

The thing that I don't fancy to pay for 240€ for new Tenergy every year, but I could afford a expensive blade once every 5-7 years since it's more durable that any rubber...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 6:09am
The best of all can't wait
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 11:41am
Special glue is used to put the Violin's plies together; maybe hide glue or something alike that gives that unique feel. Adding carbon will force the folks at Nittaku to use epoxy glue: will the Violin feel still there with epoxy right behind the 1st wood ply (from arg0's last post above I assume it won't be innerforce like but carbon will be 2nd and 6th plies)? I doubt it.
The Acoustic carbon did not impress me at all and I thought of it as a marketing gimmick Nittaku never got me used to; I understood the move and thoughts like "with the plastic balll blah-blah-blah..." but they landed with something certainly not superior to the regular acoustic; I bet I'll think the same about the Violin Carbon.


Edited by fatt - 09/10/2017 at 11:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 1:00pm
This is a side view of Violin Carbon (source: nittaku.com). Clearly, carbon is between the 1st and 2nd layers, which is also confirmed by the text on the blade ("Built-in Carbon Outside").



I've never found out with certainty whether hide glue is used in the regular Violin (see this and the following posts): the blade just says "This blade is made with the special plywood technology as manufacturing stringed instruments". It does not mention hide glue. Nor is hide glue widely used in the manufacturing of strings, nowadays. Moreover, this same text is printed on Violin Carbon. So I wonder whether they could use the same glue than regular Violin or had to use a different glue. The carbon blade will feel different for sure, but not necessarily lose the special "Violin feeling" that was also lost in the regular (non-carbon) Acoustic, IMHO.
Update: what I wanted to say is that, IMO, Violin has a special feeling that I could not find in the other blades of the strings series (Acoustic, Tenor): they're all very good but also very different. So I think that either Nittaku used a different "special plywood technology" to give Violin it "special feeling" , or the secret is not in the technology, but rather in how the technology harmonizes with the composition of Violin. In the latter case, I still have some hope that the "Violin feeling" will not be totally lost in the Carbon version.
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Edited by arg0 - 09/10/2017 at 3:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 8:37pm
just in case there were a confusion, when I wrote:

"will the Violin feel still there with epoxy right behind the 1st wood ply (from arg0's last post above I assume it won't be innerforce like but carbon will be 2nd and 6th plies)? I doubt it."

"I doubt it" was referring to "will the Violin feel still there", not the position of the carbon ply.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 8:45pm
BTW this is a very exciting thread and I'd be a fool to think I'll be strong enough not to test it lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Special glue is used to put the Violin's plies together; maybe hide glue or something alike that gives that unique feel. Adding carbon will force the folks at Nittaku to use epoxy glue: will the Violin feel still there with epoxy right behind the 1st wood ply (from arg0's last post above I assume it won't be innerforce like but carbon will be 2nd and 6th plies)? I doubt it.
The Acoustic carbon did not impress me at all and I thought of it as a marketing gimmick Nittaku never got me used to; I understood the move and thoughts like "with the plastic balll blah-blah-blah..." but they landed with something certainly not superior to the regular acoustic; I bet I'll think the same about the Violin Carbon.


So you would recommend people stick with the normal acoustic?

I've had mine for 6-7 years, and its handle is just too small for me [Baal saying about having to adjust your grip when switching from a forehand to backhand as being a good test, reverberates with me], especially now I'm in my early/mid 20's.

 So I'm going to be likely choosing a Large version of the acoustic, just not sure whether its the carbon inner, carbon or normal acoustic iteration. Bit more context about my style if you want it, is below -

I do slap a lot, and play very close to the table as all my strengths lie there. 3rd ball slow spinny loop esp. on my serve very regularly, which often sets up into a slap [flat hit] kill - i play aggressively as thats what I'm good at and it allows me to dictate the points against all but players that are simply
far too strong no matter what i do.

Hence I stay at the table more than most and don't need power away from the table etc as I'm close/mid distance from the table essentially 100% of the time.

 I can do all of that close table stuff well on an acoustic, hence i'd ideally want to stick with that line for the feeling/consistency, but many have said the normal acoustic isn't great for slapping [i.e. it might be even easier on the carbon versions for me], hence I've really loved the MX-P on my forehand which allows for good looping and flat hitting, the latter is the thing that when its working, it really sets my game apart/allows me to beat or compete with very strong players by upsetting their gameplan/ provides so much fun. 




Edited by Basquests - 09/10/2017 at 11:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 1:04am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">"I doubt it" was referring to "will the Violin feel still there", not the position of the carbon ply.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>

That was clear to me, I just wanted to contribute a picture for others to see and added my thoughts.
I hope I'll be strong enough to await the first reviews, which could be along the lines of "good blade, still some trace of the original feel, but a bit too carbon-ish", and then patiently wait for four more years for Violin Carbon Inner to be released, adapted to the new new ball. ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 4:33pm
Hmm, 11 October has passed, anyone has bought/pre-ordered one?
[[Update: just realised the original announcement says 10 Nov, not 11 Oct: see my next post]]

I see it's not yet listed on tt11 or iruiru, while tt-japan has it listed at 16000JPY (that's 4000 off the list price on Nittaku's website) with coming soon/sold out status. Any other trusted shop where it can be ordered?


Edited by arg0 - 10/16/2017 at 6:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/2017 at 6:13pm
OK, one more example of bad automatic translation on the Nittaku website. The announced release date is not 11 October, as in the first post, it's 10 November (11月10日). So, still a few more weeks to go.
Oh, and iruiru has it for preorder for 16000JPY, as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 6:38pm
Iruiru seems to have it in stock, now:
http://iruiru.com/goods_page.php?ct=B&mk=D&gd=BD345
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 8:55pm
I ordered 91 gr FL which is the heaviest ttjapan has, will arrive soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2017 at 9:44pm
Yep, another Hide Glue Wonder coming out to choose from.
These Blades do have a different feel.

If you check stringed insturments  hot hide is the choice glue.
because of creep.

This makes the blade making more extensive and time consuming
Hence more expensive.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2017 at 1:08am
Carbon fiber and hide glue don't stick together, literally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 4:06pm
Hmmm, somethings wrong then

Hide is superior to other glues for transmitting tonal waves between wood veneers because of how hard it cures and it pulls wood together as it cures.
 probably why it has the feel like no other blade.

Hide also comes in granules, flakes and flat sheets. lots of woodworkers, guitar makers and violin makers use hide and some with carbon too

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Dr.Cho Dr.Cho wrote:

Hmmm, somethings wrong then

Hide is superior to other glues for transmitting tonal waves between wood veneers because of how hard it cures and it pulls wood together as it cures.
 probably why it has the feel like no other blade.

Hide also comes in granules, flakes and flat sheets. lots of woodworkers, guitar makers and violin makers use hide and some with carbon too


I see you strongly believe in hide glue being used in Violin. I'm just not sure whether your belief is based on reality.
"because of how hard it cures": glad to see you changed your mind, because last time we discussed you stated hide glue remains flexible.
"probably why it has the feel like no other blade": maybe, but I know of no evidence that hide glue is indeed used.
"lots of woodworkers, guitar makers and violin makers use hide and some with carbon too": would be glad to know that it can be made, but at present I'm rather agnostic. What are your sources?

I'm not into woodworking, but as far as I can read hide glue does not stick (well) to carbon fibre, so it cannot be used for laminating carbon fibre to wood. It can be used for "buried reinforcement", when carbon fibre is completely surrounded by wood, but that's not the case in table tennis.
Source: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354063

Citing from another forum: Gluing carbon fibre to wood.
Q: I was thinking about making a brace for a failing acoustic of mine that incorporates the use of carbon fibre. [...] What glue would work for this? Epoxy? Gorilla glue?
A: Hide glue. Bwah hah hah! Just joking. Epoxy - pretty much any kind.

So, at least for the wood layers contacting the carbon fibre layers, I have no evidence that hide glue can be used. As such, I have to conclude that if hide glue is used at all, it is just for gluing the core to the intermediate plies.
Besides, I haven't read any review of Violin Carbon yet. It may well be that it does not have the same feel as the original Violin...


Edited by arg0 - 11/14/2017 at 5:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2017 at 9:11pm
Well..Yes hide does remain flexible in that when heated it can be repaired.

I can see by your other numerous posts you are in doubt about hide glue being used in the violin.

I have done lots of research on multiple forums.. guitar making, violin rebuilding and stringed instrument making  as well as many sports in my quest for making a better blade.

Even Stradivarius and how he used hide...quite interesting.

I also have made over 230 paddles and have a good idea how the process is done.
And Yes I do believe its hide that is transmitting tonal waves that makes it different

When they say made like stringed instruments and the most famous ones are made with hide glue
Why would you think any further, just enjoy 


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