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which one is more effect the game Blade or Rubber? |
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passifid
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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Posted: 03/23/2023 at 2:46pm |
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If you disagree try playing the game with your normal rubbers and any blade you can get 1ply, defensive, hard as anything It will be ok.
Now take your blade and put on anti, long pips, hurricane 3 hard and t05 You'll probably find that you can play your own game and style more with the same rubbers and all manner of blades
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Samsonov used the same blade for more than decade and played with diffrent rubbers.
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Mid tier rubbers???
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passifid
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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Rubber, Significantly. I would rather play with a blade from a £5 premade with mid teir rubbers such as Rhyzen ZGR or Rakza Z than a W968 national with BTY pan asia. I could use a 5ply bad quality blade and good rubbers to perform 80-90% the same in leagues but using non grippy slow rubbers that will fall to 50-70%
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peopl
Member Joined: 10/21/2015 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Which leg has more effect on running, left one or right one?
Same with blade and rubbers. Definitely, both should suit your style of play, and probably the level of skills. That's where the fun comes from, too, from having a tool that is useful for what you like to do. In my case I play with a slow, rather stiff but soft all-wood blade, and the rubbers are not bouncy, rather fast and quite grippy. That serves me well for a varied, spin-based play close to the table.
Edited by peopl - 03/22/2023 at 2:56pm |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Rewind a decade plus and with the smaller, rounder and more spinny celluloid ball; I believe that the blade choice was more important than rubber selection.
At that time, I would argue that most manufacturers OFF, OFF+ and OFF++ blades on the market were unsuitable for the majority of players (meaning, that they would have better consistency and better match performance with ALL-/ALL/ALL+/OFF- blades). However, with the bigger ABS plastic balls, and less spin, less roundness, I believe that rubber choice is more important today. Why? Because blades that were formerly too fast for the majority of players to handle in serve receive, in short game and in rallying (due in no small part to the greater spin and spin variation of celluloid balls) are now much more viable in both recreational, match, league and tournament play. With the ABS balls, I would argue that even players coming from the basement could use OFF- blades with a suitable rubber. Huge advancements have been made in rubber formulation, combining things that were previously unheard of, or difficult to achieve without some time and effort during the celluloid ball era... (Rich DeWitt, and your "dead rubbers", I am looking at you :D) Specifically, rubbers have been made that have superior short games, while retaining top end speed, and are formulated to produce "enough" spin with the ABS balls to achieve topspin placements and during a rally. When you look at the control and forgiveness of modern rubbers, it is remarkable. And in retrospect, as much as I despised the transition away from the celluloid balls (that I spent 20 years playing with), I can say that I am truly satisfied with today's game and the outcome of the development of modern balls. The game, from rec league to pro, supports more play styles, more nuance, and more creativity. The backhand is no longer in the shadow of the forehand, and gameplay is much more interesting to watch. One caveat though: It would be great if some philanthropist of the sport bought up all of the New Old Stock of rubbers like Mark V and earlier ESN generations that simply don't have a topsheet that is capable of spinning or handling the ABS ball properly. It is an incredible disservice to recreational players and to people returning to the game to still have ratings, reviews and referrals by veterans that are based on performance with the celluloid ball. TL;DR Both veterans of the sport who spent 20-30 years with Mark V / Sriver with the Celluloid ball and newer players alike are better served by modern rubbers like Evolution series. TL;DR ABS balls make classic and early rubbers play like Yasaka DANG!
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Stavros
Gold Member Joined: 12/02/2006 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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blade: 40%
rubber: 60%
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InfinityVPS - D80 - D05
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Interest older thread that popped up.
The only thing I would add is that while blade and rubber can have bigger effects a player may win more matches with something lower speed, spin, etc. What matters (if you are playing to win matches) is the proper balance of speed/spin vs control. I know it is too obvious to say, but I think sometimes we miss the obvious.
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merlin el mago
Super Member Joined: 04/14/2018 Location: Blanes - Girona Status: Offline Points: 118 |
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Blade is related: fast or slow (speed), stiff or flex (stiff better for block & flex better to loop), hard & soft (hard to drive & attack & soft to defend).
Inverted rubbers are related: fast or slow (speed), more or less sponge thickess (more or less spin related to the same rubber). Always, always keep in mind that's a combo so it all depends your skill, so never a fixed rule....
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No more political prisoners in Catalonia.
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RUSH
Beginner Joined: 11/23/2022 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Hello. Blade effect more than rubber. Why? Rubber can effect blade too. So need to focus on what part is effecting. If changing rubber than more spin or less spin. So there is effect. If changing racquet can be more or less spinning too. Also long handle like shakehand make stroke different from straight handle. But in ping pong Fire (fast) is first. Then other things are important example consistency and change. So I acknowledge the fast racquet . If you use same rubber, the big difference is speed if the racquet is different. Thank you.
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geemy
Beginner Joined: 02/28/2023 Location: DC Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Sounds way too much difference with same rubber. It's simple physics, the bouncing is affected first by the elasticity, tension, of the rubber, any blade is orders of magnitude more rigid than any rubber, and will mostly affect the vibrations damping or not. If you are swinging very fast, you could have difference due to the weight, and you could start to see more effect of the bat rigidity, but just bouncing the ball.... I would say probably a problem with the test protocol, inconsistent application of the rubbers, or variance in ther rubber (have you tried swapping rubbers)
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Is the ball test result the same for both sides ? |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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mike1250
Super Member Joined: 08/07/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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For Blade + Rubbers : Yinhe/Galaxy N-9s : 181. gr Kokutaku (5 ply wood ) : 184. gr |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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What is the total weight of each paddle, including blade and rubber ? |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Yes but two sheets of some rubbers cost more than many blades!
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Both are equally important, either one can effect your confidence, you simply cannot play well, if your confidence is shot . However, blade last much longer than rubbers, so it's always more important to pick the right blade, before you pick the rubbers.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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1. Take the blade of your choice, whatever you like, it doesn't matter. Put Tenergy 05, or Hurricane unboosted, or Mark V on it, and in each case it will play totally differently. You will need to use different racket angles on almost every shot, depending on the rubber. If you are used to any one of those and switch to the other you will find yourself knocking the ball off the table or into the net for a long time. (By contrast, switch from Tenergy 05 to Evolution MX-P and you will adjust much more easily). The rubber matters.
2. Now take, say, a Butterfly Viscaria and a Donic Appelgren Allplay (or a Stiga All Around). Put Tenergy 05 on each one. Again you will find that you will need quite distinct changes in technique to play, and adjustment is far from instantaneous But if you put Tenergy 05 on a Viscaria or a Donic True Carbon, not much difference based on those blades, assuming you stick with same handle shape. You can adjust very easily, even though no two blades are identical. The blade matters. 3. In an case, the only way to figure out if you like a blade/rubber combination is by trying it. The cheapest way to do that is to try other people's blades. You can waste a lot of money trying blades or rubbers based on what you read on the internet. Some people don't mind that, it is part of the fun for them, but if money is an issue, heed my words. |
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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I don't think there is a simple answer to your question. I would find a blade I like and plan on keeping it for a good long time. Rubber technology is much more active and variable than blade technology. Once you have a blade that complements your play style, you can build your game around that base. Choose a good quality blade, it isn't necessary to spend a lot of $$ to find something good, and spend the difference on lessons/coaching. I've chosen a ZLF blade, I could just as easily play with a ZLC or ALC, or all wood blade. I like the combination of touch and feel of my blade. Others want something stiffer, and faster or slower and softer.
Rubber is much more variable, as new things come out very often, some better, some just a different balance of playing properties. Again once you find something that works well, it isn't necessary to try the latest variants. I know some players still are playing with Mark V, and doing well with it. Personally I wouldn't be happy with it, but that's why they make so many different rubbers. It's not what I would choose, but I could use Mark V, and (on my forehand) not change much of my game. It just wouldn't give me the feel and options I'm used to. But I would adapt. If possible try some of your friends/teammates rackets at your club/tournament and see what feels best. Or even better ask your coach what he recommends.
Edited by 1dennistt - 09/11/2017 at 3:27pm |
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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mike1250
Super Member Joined: 08/07/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Strange or not , you have no choice but accepting this fact : the only difference between the 2 cases is the different blades . So , it must be due to the blades. |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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That is strange, the ball drop with no force doesn't even penetrate the rubber. If the rubbers are boosted, there could be inconsistency in the level of boosting which could definitely affect the bounce that much. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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Fulanodetal
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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From experience I will have to say that it took me more time and effort to adapt to a new blade than it does to a new rubber.
I have tested the same rubbers on different blades. Finding a good blade/rubber combination takes a little bit of time. But I think the most important is finding a good blade first. FdT
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mike1250
Super Member Joined: 08/07/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Informations on Blades used in the test : Yinhe/Galaxy N-9s : 83 grams Kokutaku (5 ply wood ) : 85 gr. These 2 blades made from 100% wood without carbon layers ! Rubbers used on both blades : Kokutaku Blutenkirsche Drop same ball from same height 36" , the bounce on the Kokutaku blade is only 70% of that on the Yinhe blade . |
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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================= Do this experiment: Try the same blade using 2 different rubbers, one superior and one inferior. Let us know your results. You may end up with the opposite conclusion.
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skip3119
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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What is the weight difference between the two ? Bounce test both on table with the same ball dropped from the same height ? |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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For me, blades.
Because of a simple experience I´ve made: When I kept the same blade and changed rubbers (all tensioned) I´ve noticed small changes. But when I kept the same rubber and changed the blade (all 7-plies) the difference was huge. As a penholder I notice more the difference between blades because each one has a different thickness, handle, cut to the index finger and shape.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Both. Big changes in either one have big effects. Small changes in either one have small effects. There is no way around this.
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mike1250
Super Member Joined: 08/07/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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From personal experience, the blades are more important than rubbers . I used the same type of rubbers on 2 different blades and one racket bounced much more than the other !
Edited by mike1250 - 09/10/2017 at 7:45pm |
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HarmonicTT
Super Member Joined: 09/04/2017 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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For me if I had to choose or downgrade not really a downgrade since these blades for backup are chosen to my likes.
Most Donic blades (ovtcharov true carbon, crest ar+, loping kitex,) Stiga artic wood, clipper, celero wood Mizuno fortius ft this blade is all wood and one thing I love in particular is the harder you hit the lower the arc is which results in hard to return balls. And don't forget sanwei blades. I currently have h3 which is a 5+2 zlf blade. And then 729 as well for backup. As long as I have my choice of rubbers it won't affect me too much. Most good or professional players can quickly adapt as long as the rubber matches |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Rubber unless your using long pips with no sponge or .5 1.0 1.5 then the blade does make a difference as well as the pips. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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Simon_plays
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1084 |
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I'd say it's more important to have a decent rubber that isn't too worn out. You could probably stick a tenergy 05 on any cheap 5 ply wood blade and still play OK with it. But a cheap, worn out rubber on a super expensive blade won't do well as you won't be able to spin the ball much.
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