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mickd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/10/2017 at 8:37am
Hello! It's been so long since I've been able to make a video like this. Sorry it's not so good. I wasn't really planning on uploading it when I took the video.

So recently I've been working a lot more on my backhand counter close to the table (some of you may have seen it in my previous video, where I was doing backhands into forehands). But I felt like my forehand needed a little more attention!

I usually go for faster drives close to the table, hitting the ball at the highest point of the bounce, but this time I tried to take the ball slightly later, since a lot more better players seem to do that. I think I will be a better player, too, playing more at the mid distance.

So what I was thinking when I was doing the forehands:

1. Take the ball a little later (as it starts to fall).
2. Have a little bit more whip action by:
3. Having the same backswing to around just behind my knee
4. And, adjusting the height of my arm based on the incoming ball.

In my mind I also felt like I had more arm snap, but the video doesn't seem to show much.

Also, SORRY about the backhands. Please ignore them..... My backhand away from the table is ATROCIOUS. I'm not sure what to do to fix it, so I'll probably have to analyse it more, and practice it more. Please focus more on the forehands this time :)

I generally liked the first ball I hit. But unfortunately, especially towards the end of the video, I noticed that with the 3rd, 5th ball etc, I was hitting the ball later and later, which didn't give me enough time to transfer my weight, causing me to just swing up with my arm.

Any advice, comments, etc, welcome!!


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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 12:24am
Your partner has trouble returning your loops, which in turn makes it harder for you to keep hitting hard.

Try to lower your output and work from there.
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BRS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 9:37am
My two cents is just don't. Nothing about playing further away and taking the ball as it drops is good. That will only lower the quality of your fh and give your opponent more time to react.

To practice backhands far from the table your partner can feed you multiball or you can just hit balls out of your hand from back there. But in general you will be practicing a shot you never want to use. But sometimes it happens anyway.
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NextLevel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 11:00am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

My two cents is just don't. Nothing about playing further away and taking the ball as it drops is good. That will only lower the quality of your fh and give your opponent more time to react.

To practice backhands far from the table your partner can feed you multiball or you can just hit balls out of your hand from back there. But in general you will be practicing a shot you never want to use. But sometimes it happens anyway.

Taking the ball further away from the table as it drops can give you confidence in your ability to loop the ball and gives you a better idea of how much time you have when you are not in position.  Also helps you build power as the ball has less energy so you need to provide it.

Hate to disagree with a player significantly higher rated than myself but it is what it is.Tongue
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Fulanodetal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 11:13am
I was thinking along the lines of what Zeio already said.

Try lowering the power of your loops so your sparing partner can return consistently. Then build up the power after a few successful loop cycles.

FdT
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Shiro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 11:29am
From what i was told, it was okay to hit sort of late in warm ups to relax more. In the game, it's better to hit at the peak of bounce to get a better quality shot and for the opponent to have a smaller time to react. Hitting the ball late won't make the ball anymore powerful then hitting it at the peak. Also, hitting at the peak allows you to hit more forward whereas waiting late can only making you go upward more to compensate for the falling/low ball. 
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mjamja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 12:07pm
First let me say how good that stroke does look.  I wish mine was even close to yours.

I looked at the swings in slow motion and noticed one thing that might give you more power and spin.  You are doing a whipping action where your arm straightens at the end of the backstroke and then snaps at the elbow as you go forward.  What I noticed is that you did not have much, if any, delay between starting the forward rotation and starting the snap.  It looked like that at ball contact you had already finished the snap (arm already had 90deg angle) so that you lost much of the snap effect.  

Try some swings where you rotate forward, but keep the arm straight.  Then just before ball contact make the snap at the elbow.  If you see that it results in faster balls with more spin then work on doing it regularly.  If not, then just ignore me (maybe what you should do in the first place).

I really like your dedication to getting better and it looks to me as if you are making good progress.

Mark - I am not a real coach, but I do play one on the internet.


Edited by mjamja - 09/11/2017 at 2:39pm
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BRS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

My two cents is just don't. Nothing about playing further away and taking the ball as it drops is good. That will only lower the quality of your fh and give your opponent more time to react.

To practice backhands far from the table your partner can feed you multiball or you can just hit balls out of your hand from back there. But in general you will be practicing a shot you never want to use. But sometimes it happens anyway.


Taking the ball further away from the table as it drops can give you confidence in your ability to loop the ball and gives you a better idea of how much time you have when you are not in position.  Also helps you build power as the ball has less energy so you need to provide it.

Hate to disagree with a player significantly higher rated than myself but it is what it is.Tongue


This is a fair point. It depends whether you are trying to practice what you want to do in matches when you are controlling the play, or what you end up having to do under pressure. You are going to need both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 8:36pm
Thanks for the replies, everyone.

@zeio and Fulanodetal: Good idea. I always tell the kids who I hit with to take it slower and work on consistency, but I guess it's so easy to forget when practicing myself! I'll definitely take it slower and try to get at least 3 loops in before adding power next time!

My practice partner has a relatively aggressive block in my opinion. He closes the racket angle and does like a mini punch as the ball is rising. I think I have a more traditional block because I generally slow the ball down a little by absorbing the force, if you know what I mean. Sorry, never tried to explain it haha. I think he can block traditionally, and if he did, his consistency on the block would also go up, but I think he prefers to practice that way. No biggie, though.

@BRS, NextLevel and Shiro: Thanks! I agree I'll need both and I'm still practicing the close to table forehands. Some of the other reasons why I wanted to try practicing with this timing is:

1. When it did go into the 5th ball or more, I find myself automatically backing off from the table anyway. But instead of looping, I end up flat hitting. I was hoping doing forehands a little further back would get me used to it so I'll keep being aggressive away from the table too.

2. I felt like my technique still needs work. My weight transfer, my forearm snap, rotating my trunk, etc, are often out of sync or lacking, so I was hoping with more time to hit the ball, I could concentrate more on improving my technique.

3. I'm always too close to the table for the 3rd ball attack, so against underspin, I'd have a very vertical stroke. I'm maybe the only player at my club that lacks a power loop or a kill loop against underspin. I find that if I move back a bit, it gives me more room in front of my body to go forward as I hit those balls. Not sure if this practice will help with that, but I feel like playing at that distance will help me back off a little more earlier. But maybe for this I just need to move my ready position a little further back!

@mjamja Thanks Mark. You've noticed something really good, and it's very likely the reason why I felt like I was snapping my arm, but when I look at the video, it seems like I hardly had any. So the goal will be to start with my trunk rotation, and have my arm come in a little more delayed, finishing with the snap. I think I'm going to need to back off even more from the table to get used to hitting the ball like that. I forgot which video I saw it from, but one of Brett Clarke's videos demonstrated a very similar approach very clearly.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I really appreciate any comments.
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mickd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 9:19pm
My movement was so much better during the first "half" of the practice. I say "half" because I was probably hitting the ball like this for about 5 minutes before I decided to record for like 15 minutes.

The video in the OP was from the last 5 minutes of the 15 minute recording (minus ball pickup and when I was blocking for my partner to attack instead).

This was during the first few minutes of the video!



But I think I was hitting the ball earlier then, too. It's probably closer to how I normally take the ball during practice.
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