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    Posted: 09/12/2017 at 9:05am
Im at the club right now. Out of 20 people here, 16 have Rasanter. 12 have it on both sides. 3 or 4 years it wasn't uncommon to see that many people at the club using Tenergy. Now, that says something, doesn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 9:22am
It does say something - perhaps, less disposable income/more frugal members at this particular club?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 9:29am
for a lot of rational people the price for Butterfly products are hard to swallow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 9:56am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

for a lot of rational people the price for Butterfly products are hard to swallow


Rasanter not much cheaper then Tenergy. TT11 sell it for $45 plus $8 shipping = $53. Prospin sells Tenergy for $61 include shipping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:07am
But at TT11, you can buddy up with a friend and make a big order, then save 30%... and no shipping cost.  I love TT11!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:12am
Hello friends, my rasanters cost 35 euro for one rubbe, may bay t05 for minimum 55 euro , 20 euro is good for me Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:12am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

for a lot of rational people the price for Butterfly products are hard to swallow


Rasanter not much cheaper then Tenergy. TT11 sell it for $45 plus $8 shipping = $53. Prospin sells Tenergy for $61 include shipping.

see mccolin's post - you have to buy effectively
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:12am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

for a lot of rational people the price for Butterfly products are hard to swallow


Rasanter not much cheaper then Tenergy. TT11 sell it for $45 plus $8 shipping = $53. Prospin sells Tenergy for $61 include shipping.

There is also weekly deals/specials. On ttmode, Rasanter 42 is 29.07 eur (if you live outside europe) + 7.5 eur shipping = 36.57 eur total (43.65 usd). You can save shipping cost if you buy more, so it would be only 29.07 eur (34.70 usd). Almost half tenergy price


Edited by shinshiro - 09/12/2017 at 10:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:49am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

for a lot of rational people the price for Butterfly products are hard to swallow

The definition of "rational" will change as socioeconomic status/dedication to the game changes. 60-70 dollars for something that you use a lot for your hobby, can be either way too much to spend, or nothing at all, depending who you are. That doesn't make you irrational, it just makes you someone who can/is willing to afford the Tenergy prices. 

Anyways this thread has gone off the rails into a buyers guide. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 12:31pm
ESN has not been doing all that well in China since 2014. In Hong Kong, the price of the entire Evolution series was substantially reduced to US$32 a piece, from $45, in April 2016. To be honest, I simply did't get why they had the guts to price it that high. If I had 45 bucks to spare, I wouldn't have any second thought about shelling out another 20 bucks for Tenergy.

Right now a piece of Bluestorm Z1/2/3 is going for $32 in HK, which is about the maximum people are willing to spend on a Tensor, as Rozena has taken over the $45 price point. Meanwhile, Rasanter V42/47, R37/42/47/50 is going for $38 a pop. For comparison, Baracuda and Hexer cost $26 and $27 respectively back when they were released in late 2009. In 2011, Acuda S1 Turbo and Hexer HD shot up to $32 and $33. In 2012, Bluefire and Rasant got another hike to $35 and 36.

Edited by zeio - 09/21/2017 at 9:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darucla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 12:57pm
In the UK, Rasanter is about £40, and Tenergy about £55.  I believe we can thank Butterfly for the high prices for the glue effect rubbers, as other companies feel they can increase the price.  Partly because increased price implies high quality (despite the fact that most of them are not long-lasting), but also because they are still less expensive than Tenergy.  Considering that you can buy a tyre (not necessarily a premium model!), and have it fitted to your car, for that money, does make me wonder.

I'm happy that I prefer Chinese rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 1:29pm
Rasanter is only worth it if you can get it under 40$, anything over that you can just get a hurricane provincial or tenergy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 1:56pm
I wonder if what's going on is about rasanter specifically, or more generally about the latest brew of tensors - thinner topsheet + thicker sponge.   I mean, Rasanter has had quite a few more months to spread than E.g. Aurus prime. (And some make a strong case for Aurus Prime as a T05 killer: https://ttgearlab.com/2017/08/23/tibhar-aurus-prime-aurus-select-review/ )

Fingers crossed it will turn out that this newest gen of tensors will finally put the nail on the Tenergy absurd pricing coffin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by MCollins MCollins wrote:

But at TT11, you can buddy up with a friend and make a big order, then save 30%... and no shipping cost.  I love TT11!!


what if I don't have friends who need something from TT11? :)
by the way its not 30%. its 25%


Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

There is also weekly deals/specials. On ttmode, Rasanter 42 is 29.07 eur (if you live outside europe) + 7.5 eur shipping = 36.57 eur total (43.65 usd). You can save shipping cost if you buy more, so it would be only 29.07 eur (34.70 usd). Almost half tenergy price


on week specials not always what you need. for example R42 on special but what if I need R47?
Tenergy I can order any time and any Tenergy I need don't have too wait for week deals and don't need to look for friends who will order with me :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

I wonder if what's going on is about rasanter specifically, or more generally about the latest brew of tensors - thinner topsheet + thicker sponge.   I mean, Rasanter has had quite a few more months to spread than E.g. Aurus prime. (And some make a strong case for Aurus Prime as a T05 killer: https://ttgearlab.com/2017/08/23/tibhar-aurus-prime-aurus-select-review/ )

Fingers crossed it will turn out that this newest gen of tensors will finally put the nail on the Tenergy absurd pricing coffin.


It is a bit of a trend seen in quite a few rubbers, not just Rasanter.  Thin topsheets, shorter pips.  It gives a rubber that is very linear and controllable at the cost of some explosiveness.  I like it.  Taken to the extreme, you end up with Nexy Karis, which I love.  See also Stiga Mantra, TSP Regalis.

But not everyone will go for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 2:37pm
One club is a pretty small data point. At some small clubs all it takes is the strongest player to switch to a new equipment and a lot of the others will follow. It may not have a lot to do with performance, since most people will play the same with any number of different setups as soon as they adjust to the superficial differences.

I think tenergy remains playable longer than the ESN stuff I have tried (which admittedly isn't many of them), so at ~$61 it costs less. Not that I care really, I like the feel of T05 and the cost is nothing for the enjoyment that I get over the hours that I play. All the Butterfly hatred seems kind of like irrational groupthink to me. It's a business not a charity, they price products to maximize their profits. No one has to buy them. Get over it already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanchope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

for a lot of rational people the price for Butterfly products are hard to swallow


Rasanter not much cheaper then Tenergy. TT11 sell it for $45 plus $8 shipping = $53. Prospin sells Tenergy for $61 include shipping.


Prospin? Is that a shop? I'm just wondering what is the cheapest reliable place to buy a T05.

Edited by wanchope - 09/12/2017 at 4:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

One club is a pretty small data point. At some small clubs all it takes is the strongest player to switch to a new equipment and a lot of the others will follow. It may not have a lot to do with performance, since most people will play the same with any number of different setups as soon as they adjust to the superficial differences.

I think tenergy remains playable longer than the ESN stuff I have tried (which admittedly isn't many of them), so at ~$61 it costs less. Not that I care really, I like the feel of T05 and the cost is nothing for the enjoyment that I get over the hours that I play. All the Butterfly hatred seems kind of like irrational groupthink to me. It's a business not a charity, they price products to maximize their profits. No one has to buy them. Get over it already.

+1, and there is a reason why tenergy is still the king of euro/japanese rubbers. Simply there is no other rubber that matches its performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

 
what if I don't have friends who need something from TT11? :)
by the way its not 30%. its 25%


on week specials not always what you need. for example R42 on special but what if I need R47?
Tenergy I can order any time and any Tenergy I need don't have too wait for week deals and don't need to look for friends who will order with me :)

Yeah that is indeed a disadvantage, but if you know what rubbers you plan to buy on future it is not so bad to take a look at ttmode/ tt11 once a week.
And just by curiosity R47 was available last week on ttmode, so probably another rasanter will be with discount next week I guess, if anyone plans to buy.

On TT11 discount can be as high as 30%. On ttmode it can reach 25%.


Edited by shinshiro - 09/12/2017 at 4:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

 
what if I don't have friends who need something from TT11? :)
by the way its not 30%. its 25%


on week specials not always what you need. for example R42 on special but what if I need R47?
Tenergy I can order any time and any Tenergy I need don't have too wait for week deals and don't need to look for friends who will order with me :)


Yeah that is indeed a disadvantage, but if you know what rubbers you plan to buy on future it is not so bad to take a look at ttmode/ tt11 once a week.
And just by curiosity R47 was available last week on ttmode, so probably another rasanter will be with discount next week I guess, if anyone plans to buy.

On TT11 discount can be as high as 30%. On ttmode it can reach 25%.



on TT11 25%. not 30%. look on pic


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

One club is a pretty small data point.

For sure.  Barely qualifies as data! :)

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

All the Butterfly hatred seems kind of like irrational groupthink to me. It's a business not a charity, they price products to maximize their profits. No one has to buy them. Get over it already.
Apologies if that's how I came across.  I 100% agree about their pricing reflecting the state of the market.  Far from doing anything wrong, Butterfly are providing quality products at prices that people have been happy to pay for years.  I'm just enthusiastic about the idea that the market might finally be providing direct competition for Tenergy. 

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

 I like the feel of T05 and the cost is nothing for the enjoyment that I get over the hours that I play.

Right!  I really like the way the folks at TTGear Lab describe the problem of providing an alternative to T05.  The challenge is to provide an alternative that is has at least (1) as much spin, (2) as much speed and (3) as good a *feel*.  The problem is that almost all alternatives give up at least one of these three features: you can get (1) + (2); or (2) + (3); or (1) + (3).  The question is whether rubbers in this newest generation of tensors can achieve (1) + (2) + (3).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:



It is a bit of a trend seen in quite a few rubbers, not just Rasanter.  Thin topsheets, shorter pips.  It gives a rubber that is very linear and controllable at the cost of some explosiveness.  I like it.  Taken to the extreme, you end up with Nexy Karis, which I love.  See also Stiga Mantra, TSP Regalis.

But not everyone will go for it.

AFAIK Mantra has a more traditional topsheet structure and a 2.1mm max sponge.  

Nexy Karis, Donic Bluestorm and Tibhar Aurus Prime + select each have thinner topsheets + thicker sponges.  They differ in where they reduce the topsheet thickness, either the pimples or the outmost smooth sheet, which gives them different characteristics.  

Shorter pimples, regular thickness outmost sheet: Karis (and I think Bluestorm Z1)

Thinner outmost sheet, regular pimple length: Rasanter, Aurus prime + select (and I think Bluestorm Z2) 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 7:44pm
Mantra M at least has quite short pips compared to most (but not as short as Karis) and the topsheet is quite pliable.  So it has a lot of the same feel.  I haven't tried Bluestorm Z1 but everything about that one suggests it will be similar to Rasanter.  In any case, the trend all these rubbers have is high predictability by the player, but sacrificing some explosiveness.  I like it but my technique had to adapt to it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 8:43pm
Rasanter is a good rubber just like all the new ESN rubbers. I personally don't feel like they are equal to or better than Tenergy . I think Butterfly feels the same way since they released Rozena to compete against the ESN rubbers instead of lowering the price of Tenergy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

 
what if I don't have friends who need something from TT11? :)
by the way its not 30%. its 25%


on week specials not always what you need. for example R42 on special but what if I need R47?
Tenergy I can order any time and any Tenergy I need don't have too wait for week deals and don't need to look for friends who will order with me :)


Yeah that is indeed a disadvantage, but if you know what rubbers you plan to buy on future it is not so bad to take a look at ttmode/ tt11 once a week.
And just by curiosity R47 was available last week on ttmode, so probably another rasanter will be with discount next week I guess, if anyone plans to buy.

On TT11 discount can be as high as 30%. On ttmode it can reach 25%.



on TT11 25%. not 30%. look on pic



Interesting. 
Look here:



It seems TT11 has different discounts values for different countries LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:18pm
Or they are running an A/B test...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:33pm
At my club it's probably 50% Tenergy, another 40% some form of ESN and a few Hurricane users. I would say most people think Tenergy is expensive, but the ESN rubbers don't last as long and the Hurricanes need boosting to play with them at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 6:08am
Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

It seems TT11 has different discounts values for different countries LOL



looks like you right ... I have to order with you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarmonicTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2017 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

 
what if I don't have friends who need something from TT11? :)
by the way its not 30%. its 25%


on week specials not always what you need. for example R42 on special but what if I need R47?
Tenergy I can order any time and any Tenergy I need don't have too wait for week deals and don't need to look for friends who will order with me :)


Yeah that is indeed a disadvantage, but if you know what rubbers you plan to buy on future it is not so bad to take a look at ttmode/ tt11 once a week.
And just by curiosity R47 was available last week on ttmode, so probably another rasanter will be with discount next week I guess, if anyone plans to buy.

On TT11 discount can be as high as 30%. On ttmode it can reach 25%.



on TT11 25%. not 30%. look on pic






Add more than 300 euros it's 30% no matter where you are... I get 30% over 300
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarmonicTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2017 at 4:51pm
It's just how the website is sometimes it's off and sometimes it's right but nonetheless discount is anywhere you are all orders over 300 euros get automatically 30% discount in their cart
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