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DHS 40+ seemed balls suck

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    Posted: 09/12/2017 at 9:07am
Do you concur?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:08am
Big time. They came too late. They should have come in late 2012, instead they were postponed to late 2014. The ill-fated seamless was supposed to be the one, yet everyone was stuck with that seamed cellulose acetate crap.

Edited by zeio - 09/12/2017 at 10:13am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:10am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Do you concur?
are you talking about 40+ or D40+?


Edited by tom - 09/12/2017 at 10:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:59am
I've come across a few that were hard to believe, they were pretty bad.  Not positive what actual ball, but it was a black DHS label and 3 red stars.  Horrible.

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:20am
No.  I do  not concur.

As for identifyiing them, all of the DHS balls have black labels with three red stars.  The D40+ say D40+ in very small letters.

And they do not suck compared to other plastic balls.  They are round, have a consistent bounce and are the most durable balls on average ever made.   I personally like them best, and I have tried essentially every plastic ball sold and have played with plastic exclusively since 2014.

Zeio has it right.  ITTF should never have made a rule change on balls until these balls were ready for mass production.  Or they should have stayed with celluloid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:22am
Baal, joola flash are my favourite plastic balls I think they take spin best of ones o have tried? any thought on the joolas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 11:33am
Yep.  They are typical seamless balls, not very different (if at all) from the others, like XSF.  The good side is they are durable -- unless you hit an edge and then they shatter, and I have seen people having a bad day can break a bunch in a hurry.  Their trajectory in the air is a bit odd, as they tend to float, and while they are not very light, they kind of feel light.  Actually though, they are at the top of the ITTF allowable weight range. The ones I had were reasonably round but quality control on that for seamless balls in general varies from batch to batch.  They play and feel slower than the Nittaku Premium or the D40+, and the way that spin affects the ball is going to be a bit different from Nittaku/D40.  Spin produces complex effects on balls and those effects are not the same for each class.  I find the Joola Flash quite easy to see for some reason, they really look larger but maybe that is an illusion.  They bounce higher than other classes of balls, and indeed higher than the celluloid 40 mm balls we had before.  All in all they are not bad, especially once you are accustomed to them, but I prefer the ABS balls with seams.  It is much easier to transition between a D40+ and a Nittaku Premium than between either of those and a Joola Flash.  If you want seamless balls, my current favorites in that class are from Xiom (a clubmate showed up with some of those a few weeks ago).

But you could do much worse than Joola Flash.  (Like for example a regular DHS 40+ made of cellulose acetate, which is a crime against table tennis).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 12:03pm
cheers baal, I think I might have to try some!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigFatLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

No.  I do  not concur.

As for identifyiing them, all of the DHS balls have black labels with three red stars.  The D40+ say D40+ in very small letters.

And they do not suck compared to other plastic balls.  They are round, have a consistent bounce and are the most durable balls on average ever made.   I personally like them best, and I have tried essentially every plastic ball sold and have played with plastic exclusively since 2014.

+1 on above. The latest D40+ (see below) are very round, last forever, and are cheap. They seem to be a little slower so they play best on a fast table top.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:10pm
The only way I have been able to ruin a D40+ ball is by stepping on it. I almost broke my ankle , the ball only dented and did not bust.

Edited by jpenmaster - 09/12/2017 at 10:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2017 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by BigFatLoop BigFatLoop wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

No.  I do  not concur.

As for identifyiing them, all of the DHS balls have black labels with three red stars.  The D40+ say D40+ in very small letters.

And they do not suck compared to other plastic balls.  They are round, have a consistent bounce and are the most durable balls on average ever made.   I personally like them best, and I have tried essentially every plastic ball sold and have played with plastic exclusively since 2014.

+1 on above. The latest D40+ (see below) are very round, last forever, and are cheap. They seem to be a little slower so they play best on a fast table top.



I quit the sport when the first plastic balls came out.

3 years later, I came back. I hated the G40+ (not round, bad sound, didn't like the bounce, erratic).
XuShaoFa 40+ 3* balls from ttnpp purchased in bulk were bad (3 out of 4 not round at all, didn't spin, random floaters).

The Nittaku Premium balls were "ok" but significantly different from the other two to make switching between balls problematic (I had to adjust my playstyle, spin with NP's, flat hit with others).

This DHS D40+ are a good value. Similar enough to Nittaku Premiums that I don't have to make too much of an adjustment to swap between.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 1:39am
I didn't realize there were two variations of DHS 40+ balls as DHS balls aren't very popular here in Vietnam. Nearly all the good players here are using Nittaku or XuShaoFa balls. The DHS ball I used last night felt horrible. It felt like the structure of the ball was collapsing when I hit with my short pips. It just felt really really cheap, had a terrible bounce, and wasn't fun to play with. It could have been the older version. I'm not really sure. I typically buy Nittaku Premiums, but I don't mind playing with the Xsf balls, they are fine. I have some Xiom 40+ practice balls that were a lot better than the balls I used last night.


Edited by ericd937 - 09/13/2017 at 1:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 2:16am
Well, DHS and XSF plays differentlyn (Mind you I haven't tried XSF since the first horrible balls hit the marked). The D40+ plays more or less like NP40+ (3 star, one star is horrible) I can change between D40+ and NP without any problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 3:03am
Big fan of the DHS D40+
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 7:32am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

I didn't realize there were two variations of DHS 40+ balls as DHS balls aren't very popular here in Vietnam. Nearly all the good players here are using Nittaku or XuShaoFa balls. The DHS ball I used last night felt horrible. It felt like the structure of the ball was collapsing when I hit with my short pips. It just felt really really cheap, had a terrible bounce, and wasn't fun to play with. It could have been the older version. I'm not really sure. I typically buy Nittaku Premiums, but I don't mind playing with the Xsf balls, they are fine. I have some Xiom 40+ practice balls that were a lot better than the balls I used last night.


Understandable.  The original DHS balls (Ma Long on the box) are a crime against table tennis.

The D40+ (Ding Ning on the box) are pretty much like Nittaku Premium but slightly heavier.

The problem is that if you don't have a box, you have to look really closely on the ball labels, which are very similar, except that it is written D40+ in very small print on the good ones (so small I can barely see it without reading glasses).  But if you hit with them, you can tell the difference instantly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 11:38am
So, the red ITTF APPROVED balls are the good ones.  I need to look for some.

I obviously hit the black ITTF APPROVED version, which were garbage.

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 12:44pm
seamed ball, not seemed balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigFatLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by in2spin in2spin wrote:

So, the red ITTF APPROVED balls are the good ones.  

Two confirmed visual differences:

old (bad):     ball type is "40+" and have Ma Long's picture on box.
new (good): ball type is "D40+" and have Ding Ning's picture on box.  

Not sure if all the new ones have "ITTF APPROVED" in red color only and this could change at any time so I wouldn't go by that.  

Hopefully DHS will maintain the quality and pricing on the new D40+ balls.


Edited by BigFatLoop - 09/13/2017 at 1:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 1:17pm
The last batch of balls that I got from eBay in a 10-pack play way lighter than the ones in the 6-pack, I m really sad that d40+ suck now, they seemed really promising
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henningf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

The last batch of balls that I got from eBay in a 10-pack play way lighter than the ones in the 6-pack, I m really sad that d40+ suck now, they seemed really promising


One star or three star?

What do you mean when you say play lighter?

Edited by henningf - 09/13/2017 at 3:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 6:37pm
3 star balls, the 10-pack with ding ning's face on it. When I say light, they feel very light on impact compared to the earlier ones from the 6-pack, i weighed them all, they weigh 2.7g, but ones from the 6-pack weigh 2.8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 8:39pm
All 40+ balls I´ve played so far were very fragile. And by very fragile I mean starting the training session with a brand new ball and two hours later have it split in two pieces.
I´ve tried DHS 1* 40+, Neottec training ball 40+, Yasaka 1* 40+ and Donic 3* 40+.

Now I´m trying DHS 1* D40+, it´s heavier, less spinny, bounces higher, but lasts much longer than the 40+ balls. Actually I´m still using the same ball and have 9 remaining in the Ding Ning pack. I wonder when it wiil break...

I´d like to have the performance of 40+ and the durability of the D40+. But I can´t have both, so I must go with D40+. I can´t afford playing with a ball which lasts 2 hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 8:48pm
Get 3* D40. You will be happy. Tne 1* are not good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

3 star balls, the 10-pack with ding ning's face on it. When I say light, they feel very light on impact compared to the earlier ones from the 6-pack, i weighed them all, they weigh 2.7g, but ones from the 6-pack weigh 2.8


Got a date code for the 10 pack? It's on the bottom flap.

The first 2 6 packs I bought earlier this year were made in Feb. Very nice balls.

I just received a 10 pack made in May that I haven't used yet. I will give them a try this weekend. (I don't have a scale)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigFatLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

3 star balls, the 10-pack with ding ning's face on it. When I say light, they feel very light on impact compared to the earlier ones from the 6-pack, i weighed them all, they weigh 2.7g, but ones from the 6-pack weigh 2.8

I think the ball is supposed to weigh 2.7gr so it sounds like you prefer a little heavier ball. I am sure others do as well and that's fine, but some may prefer the official weight.  Just a personal preference I guess, that IMHO may be influenced on playing style, equipment, table top speed, physical conditioning, ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 9:16pm
You need a balance with better resolution.

ITTF specifies a range they allow, and also specifies acceptable variation. After Jan 1, 2016 they got more strict. They had allowed a couple of years of looser standards after 2014 while manufacturers struggled to come up with any non-celluloid ball under severe time constraints.   The ideal is supposed to be 2.70. It turns out to not be so easy to acheive that with a 40.5 mm diameter and still have playability and durability. Most approved balls at this time are around 2.73 including D40s that I weighed. The earliest 40+ balls were around 2.78. Nittakus are around 2.68. Balls at 2.80 would not have ever been approved at any time. But maybe your balance is reading up from 2.75.

I don't mind the extra weight of D40 compared to Nittaku. Personal taste, but I like the solid feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

The last batch of balls that I got from eBay in a 10-pack play way lighter than the ones in the 6-pack, I m really sad that d40+ suck now, they seemed really promising

That's a good place to get fakes; were both the 10 and 6 from same vendor?


Edited by icontek - 09/13/2017 at 11:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2017 at 11:28pm
I agree that they could be fakes, I will wait on you guys to tell me your observations on the balls from the 10-pack, its just that the ball from 6-pack feels very close to nittaku balls, and the 10-pack ones feel lighter during play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2017 at 10:32am
I have some six packs that feel fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2017 at 2:31pm
Baal i m talking specifically about the 10-pack
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