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Gambler FLC = ZLC ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 8:37pm
10 grams either way seems like a lot but its not considering blades are a natural product. I prefer close to 90g so i try and request it. Kiln dried vs air dried , a little more adhesive, slightly thicker veneers can easily add up. 10grams is only 2 sheets of paper. Try weighing your blades in summer and winter they will fluctuate a couple grams

Edited by jpenmaster - 10/18/2017 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

10 grams either way seems like a lot but its not considering blades are a natural product. I prefer close to 90g so i try and request it. Kiln dried vs air dried , a little more adhesive, slightly thicker veneers can easily add up. 10grams is only 2 sheets of paper. Try weighing your blades in summer and winter they will fluctuate a couple grams



This is true but that is what QC is all about. No matter how you slice it, 20% , is a lot. Just have to remember to talk to the dealer about all important metrics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2017 at 10:48pm
For an expensive blade they should be picking their wood more carefully I think.

Tried the touch version. Was better than I expected but I won't be switching.
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Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

Just received my Fire Dragon Touch.  Weight listed on the Zeropong website:  81g plus or minus 2g.
Weight of blade received:  91g


I guess right off that means that it's best to talk to them directly and have them weigh one before ordering if 90+ grams is an issue.

Did you do a frequency test?


Mine (Touch, that is) was also a bit heavier than I thought.  It is truly a rather slow-ish blade, somewhere around ALL+. I paired it up (in the Zeropong promotional combo) with Zero BD and Zero TH and the result was kinda underwhelming and quite muffled in terms of feeling. It played OK for a beginner and would probably suit defender/allround player but I couldn't squeeze much out of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:


Mine (Touch, that is) was also a bit heavier than I thought.  It is truly a rather slow-ish blade, somewhere around ALL+. I paired it up (in the Zeropong promotional combo) with Zero BD and Zero TH and the result was kinda underwhelming and quite muffled in terms of feeling. It played OK for a beginner and would probably suit defender/allround player but I couldn't squeeze much out of it.


Thanks for the info. I am thinking it is either there is a different type of carbon composite or a soft core that is generating these characteristics? They do seem to be after more of a wood feel. Any thoughts on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

Just received my Fire Dragon Touch.  Weight listed on the Zeropong website:  81g plus or minus 2g.
Weight of blade received:  91g


I guess right off that means that it's best to talk to them directly and have them weigh one before ordering if 90+ grams is an issue.

Did you do a frequency test?


Mine (Touch, that is) was also a bit heavier than I thought.  It is truly a rather slow-ish blade, somewhere around ALL+. I paired it up (in the Zeropong promotional combo) with Zero BD and Zero TH and the result was kinda underwhelming and quite muffled in terms of feeling. It played OK for a beginner and would probably suit defender/allround player but I couldn't squeeze much out of it.


maybe rubbers very slow? try with Tenergy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:



maybe rubbers very slow? try with Tenergy


I was considering that possibility, but I know that JimT has performed many evaluations and was focusing on the blade characteristics that he was feeling. However, maybe the blade does perform better with some of the more popular tensor rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rich L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 7:31pm
I exchanged emails with Zeropong today, and apparently, after the first batch of blades came in, he asked the factory to make them heavier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dsc13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 7:41pm
I use Tenergy 2.1mm on my Dragon Touch, and I don't consider my setup lacking in speed at all.
It's not OFF+, but it's fast, and I feel it's still controllable.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by dsc13 dsc13 wrote:

I use Tenergy 2.1mm on my Dragon Touch, and I don't consider my setup lacking in speed at all.
It's not OFF+, but it's fast, and I feel it's still controllable.

Any way to compare it to any other blade that you've played with Tenergy? Thanks.

Edited by richrf - 10/21/2017 at 10:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2017 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

I exchanged emails with Zeropong today, and apparently, after the first batch of blades came in, he asked the factory to make them heavier.


Probably a bit heavier than I like but the website still reads 81+2. Thanks for the info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2017 at 9:39am
Zeropong weighed their inventory of Fire Dragon Touch blades, and the lightest of the blades are in the 84g range.  They have been nothing but accommodating.  They're sending me an 84g blade and enclosing a prepaid mailer for me to return the 91g blade I originally received.  Can't ask for better than that.

Edited by Rich L - 10/21/2017 at 9:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

I exchanged emails with Zeropong today, and apparently, after the first batch of blades came in, he asked the factory to make them heavier.


Then on their website they should NOT advertise their weight at 80g - I basically ordered the combo because I hoped for a light but relatively fast blade (all my combos are at 170 +- 2-3 g; due to shoulder troubles I do not want to play with any paddle heavier than 172-174). Imagine my disappointment when the result was neither light nor fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2017 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

I exchanged emails with Zeropong today, and apparently, after the first batch of blades came in, he asked the factory to make them heavier.


Then on their website they should NOT advertise their weight at 80g - I basically ordered the combo because I hoped for a light but relatively fast blade (all my combos are at 170 +- 2-3 g; due to shoulder troubles I do not want to play with any paddle heavier than 172-174). Imagine my disappointment when the result was neither light nor fast.


I agree. They should offer a refund if the merchandise does not conform to advertised specifications. If they don't, what I would do is challenge the charge after providing proof of advertisement specifications and actual weight. I believe the credit card companies provide protection against defective merchandise, and since your blade is outside of the promised weight, it would be considered defective.

Edited by richrf - 10/22/2017 at 8:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2017 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

I exchanged emails with Zeropong today, and apparently, after the first batch of blades came in, he asked the factory to make them heavier.


Then on their website they should NOT advertise their weight at 80g - I basically ordered the combo because I hoped for a light but relatively fast blade (all my combos are at 170 +- 2-3 g; due to shoulder troubles I do not want to play with any paddle heavier than 172-174). Imagine my disappointment when the result was neither light nor fast.


I agree. They should offer a refund if the merchandise does not conform to advertised specifications. If they don't, what I would do is challenge the charge after providing proof of advertisement specifications and actual weight. I believe the credit card companies provide protection against defective merchandise, and since your blade is outside of the promised weight, it would be considered defective.

I wouldn't get all wound ups about credit card warranties, etc.  Zeropong has been more than willing to make things right.  If you have received equipment that does not meet your expectations and hasn't been altered, I don't see any reason why they won't accept it back.  They were more than willing to refund my money.  Instead, I requested another blade, and it is in transit.  I'll be sending my original purchase back to them with a shipping label they are providing.


Edited by Rich L - 10/23/2017 at 1:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/24/2017 at 8:32pm
Got my Fire Dragon Touch yesterday at 83g promised by Zeropong customer service, and shaved the head sized down and ended up with an 80g blade.  One thing I noticed is that the Zeropong oval is narrower in the lower half than my Xiom blades because I used a previously mounted sheet of rubber and had to trim a crescent from each side.  I fit the blade with Baracuda and Rasanter R42, both 2.0, and found it to be reasonably fast.  My goal was to go from an off to off+ blade with slower rubber to an off to off- blade with more aggressive rubbers to see if it resulted in greater dwell time and as a result, more spin.  I only played a short time with it, so the jury's still out, but it's got possibilities, although it's going to take a stroke adjustment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2017 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Rich L Rich L wrote:

Got my Fire Dragon Touch yesterday at 83g promised by Zeropong customer service, and shaved the head sized down and ended up with an 80g blade.  One thing I noticed is that the Zeropong oval is narrower in the lower half than my Xiom blades because I used a previously mounted sheet of rubber and had to trim a crescent from each side.  I fit the blade with Baracuda and Rasanter R42, both 2.0, and found it to be reasonably fast.  My goal was to go from an off to off+ blade with slower rubber to an off to off- blade with more aggressive rubbers to see if it resulted in greater dwell time and as a result, more spin.  I only played a short time with it, so the jury's still out, but it's got possibilities, although it's going to take a stroke adjustment.


Nice! Sounds like a success! I’d be glad to hear more about what you did to shave the blade. Did you use hand tools? What’s the current length?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2017 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

[QUOTE=Rich L] Got my Fire Dragon Touch yesterday at 83g promised by Zeropong customer service, and shaved the head sized down and ended up with an 80g blade.  One thing I noticed is that the Zeropong oval is narrower in the lower half than my Xiom blades because I used a previously mounted sheet of rubber and had to trim a crescent from each side.  I fit the blade with Baracuda and Rasanter R42, both 2.0, and found it to be reasonably fast.  My goal was to go from an off to off+ blade with slower rubber to an off to off- blade with more aggressive rubbers to see if it resulted in greater dwell time and as a result, more spin.  I only played a short time with it, so the jury's still out, but it's got possibilities, although it's going to take a stroke adjustment.


Nice! Sounds like a success! I’d be glad to hear more about what you did to shave the blade. Did you use hand tools? What’s the current length?

I took 3-4 mm off the top of the oval, tapering down to 0 at about 3 and 9 o'clock using a previously cut rubber as a template.  I used a fine tip marker to mark my trim line, then used a sanding block with about 100 grit sandpaper to bring the blade close to the line, and finished it with a flat file, then used 200 grit paper to clean the edges.  The head is a tiny bit smaller than my typical blade, but has decent balance, and hits fine.  For $40, in my mind, it was worth the experiment.  

If you're really on the market for a light offensive blade, though, I just discovered and ordered a 78g Xiom Hyabusa Z+ on closeout at Paddle Palace.  The inventory they have is all 81g and lighter, and at $88.95, it's a great composite blade for a fantastic price.


Edited by Rich L - 10/25/2017 at 7:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 8:27pm
I keep going back to my gambler flc fast dragon. It does a lot of things well that help my game. I have always been a high flex wood blade type player. But this blade blocks very well at the table, serves are good and so is the short game. It really shines when I am off the table. Very solid and predictable. It is not a rocket launcher. The only thing it does not seem to help my game (and most likely it is me, not the blades problem though some other blades work well for me at this) is attacking right at the table. I can 3rd ball kill, but the medium to hard drive or loop close to the table is not really excelling with this blade. 
I keep thinking my 183 gram set up is too heavy-i have preferred 174 grams or so for a long time. But maybe its working cause I have started doing some pushups.
edit-with current rubbers of xiom omega V asia and razka 9 both in 2.0 sponge the mass is 187 grams.


Edited by vanjr - 10/30/2017 at 8:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabmini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2017 at 11:18pm
It seem the dragon touch has been high praised.
Anyone tried The Hinoki one ?
It looks like some kind of Garaydia ZLC or Amultart.

Cheers,
My feedback :
mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77680&PID=959859󪕳
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zeropong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 8:53am
The Original blades came with light weight, at the high levels the blade is designed for the weight was too light, we have updated the web to reflect the weight range of the new batch of blades.

Considering the product is made to satisfy higher level players they disliked the 80gram weight, so we increased it, and our target was 85grams however it did swing a bit higher than that. Much has to do with the types of wood used, some types have a bigger variance, out of the 4 competitors blades that these compare to all are over 92 grams while listed as 85 with no +- variance, If you need a specific weight we can pull it down to 84-83 grams, since 200+USD blades cannot manage to meet the weight ranges we will try our best to succeed where the" best" have already failed.

P.S we are a USA and Chinese company with our own joint venture factory, while admittedly the vast majority of sales are inside China, we try to cater to the European style as wellSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:03am
shipping to Canada too expensive. TT11 ship with DHL for half price from Estonia

Edited by piligrim - 11/01/2017 at 9:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:08am
Thank you. Appreciate your informative post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeropong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:25am
It is a good thing that we do not compete in any way with TT11,(they are a straight low price re seller) you have to understand about shipping .. USA companies get RIPPED off from the vendors (DHL, FEDEX, and the USPS) they offer shipping to foreign companies at half the rate, soon we will be shipping straight from our China pro shop, it is cheaper for me to ship a package straight from China to Texas than it is to ship that same package from SC to Texas.

Tom

Edit: when I say cheaper from China direct to Texas I mean HALF PRICE for the same package sent from one USA state to another USA state.


Edited by zeropong - 11/01/2017 at 9:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:34am
Originally posted by zeropong zeropong wrote:

It is a good thing that we do not compete in any way with TT11,(they are a straight low price re seller) you have to understand about shipping .. USA companies get RIPPED off from the vendors (DHL, FEDEX, and the USPS) they offer shipping to foreign companies at half the rate, soon we will be shipping straight from our China pro shop, it is cheaper for me to ship a package straight from China to Texas than it is to ship that same package from SC to Texas.

Tom

Edit: when I say cheaper from China direct to Texas I mean HALF PRICE for the same package sent from one USA state to another USA state.



I noticed as a customer, but I had no idea business pricing is that much higher for us retailers. Sadly shipping from China sounds like a good move..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:41am
Originally posted by zeropong zeropong wrote:

The Original blades came with light weight, at the high levels the blade is designed for the weight was too light, we have updated the web to reflect the weight range of the new batch of blades.

Considering the product is made to satisfy higher level players they disliked the 80gram weight, so we increased it, and our target was 85grams however it did swing a bit higher than that. Much has to do with the types of wood used, some types have a bigger variance, out of the 4 competitors blades that these compare to all are over 92 grams while listed as 85 with no +- variance, If you need a specific weight we can pull it down to 84-83 grams, since 200+USD blades cannot manage to meet the weight ranges we will try our best to succeed where the" best" have already failed.

P.S we are a USA and Chinese company with our own joint venture factory, while admittedly the vast majority of sales are inside China, we try to cater to the European style as wellSmile


Two questions that came up multiple times on threads about the new FLC blades:

1. What’s the motivation for going with 161mm length instead of the more common 157mm? Any plans to do a 157mm in the future? (AFAIK this is a big hurdle for a lot of players interested in the blades.)

2. What’s the wood species used for the blade’s core?

These new blades seem fantastic!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:42am
Originally posted by zeropong zeropong wrote:

It is a good thing that we do not compete in any way with TT11,(they are a straight low price re seller) you have to understand about shipping .. USA companies get RIPPED off from the vendors (DHL, FEDEX, and the USPS) they offer shipping to foreign companies at half the rate, soon we will be shipping straight from our China pro shop, it is cheaper for me to ship a package straight from China to Texas than it is to ship that same package from SC to Texas.

Tom

Edit: when I say cheaper from China direct to Texas I mean HALF PRICE for the same package sent from one USA state to another USA state.



I compare only shipping cost. I was expecting shipping from USA to Canada would be cheaper then Shipping to Canada from Europe, China and Japan. or shipping cost not depend by distance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 9:52am
Originally posted by zeropong zeropong wrote:

It is a good thing that we do not compete in any way with TT11,(they are a straight low price re seller) you have to understand about shipping .. USA companies get RIPPED off from the vendors (DHL, FEDEX, and the USPS) they offer shipping to foreign companies at half the rate, soon we will be shipping straight from our China pro shop, it is cheaper for me to ship a package straight from China to Texas than it is to ship that same package from SC to Texas.

Tom

Edit: when I say cheaper from China direct to Texas I mean HALF PRICE for the same package sent from one USA state to another USA state.



The problem I see with this approach, is that it removes you as the intermediary inspector of the goods which is worth something. I would not want to order directly from a factory unless there was a return guarantee with postage. With T11, for example, I can have them verify specifications before shipping, so there is less risk.

I concur that the oversized dimensions create a head heavy weight issue especially with the new ESN rubbers.

Edited by richrf - 11/01/2017 at 9:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeropong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 10:25am
I would never ship retail product directly from a factory they are set up to wrap pallets not pull onesies and twosies  "soon we will be shipping straight from our China pro shop"

We are in the process of putting in a club and pro shop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2017 at 5:25pm
The only reason I didn't buy at least one blade from zeropong is because it will arrive to Portugal from US.
Almost for sure it would go to portuguese customs where I would have to pay almost the same as the price of the blade (that also happens when it comes from Canada, Taiwan and Japan, and probably from some others coutries outside Europe. When it comes from China usually don't go to customs)
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